If you’re arguing about it here, then you are. No ifs ands or buts.
There doesn’t need to be another thread about advocacy for you to go to, there’s the phrase “There’s a time and a place for everything”. This is not the time or the place unless you want to be advocating for slavery.
And sorry, there really isn’t a way around to argue around it. You are advocating for slavery by defending people who advocate for it.
This is an absurdly black-and-white way of looking at morality. Saying that pro-slavery people shouldn’t be assaulted is not by any stretch the same as being pro-slavery oneself.
I think I have a good way to illustrate this, actually. What do you think about, say, torturing pro-slavery people? Or perhaps their families?
It’s possible you think torturing them and their families is going too far. This “too far” feeling would be you defending them just as much as I am; you don’t support slavery, but that doesn’t mean you think any conceivable misfortune should be inflicted on them. Likewise, contrary to what you say, I don’t support slavery but still don’t think certain actions against them are justified.
For the mob boss example, I would say that while it’s still not violence, per se, it still poses enough of a risk to warrant violent reprisal.
So for the advocacy of slavery example, an acceptable use of violent reprisal would have to be directed at someone who is truly influential enough for their suggestion (or “suggestion,” as the case may be,) to reasonably constitute an actual threat.
The only person I can think of who may qualify on the American Right is Trump, because of the whole January 6th insurrection. Clearly some of his followers are keen on violence at his mere suggestion. As far as I’m aware, though, nobody has openly advocated for slavery.
So for the advocacy of slavery example, an acceptable use of violent reprisal would have to be directed at someone who is truly influential enough for their suggestion (or “suggestion,” as the case may be,) to reasonably constitute an actual threat.
You do get that by juicing someone’s face like a tomato so soon as they so much as sniff “We should enslave our fellow human beings.” for freshness, no one ever gets the power and influence you are describing and for society that is a good thing?
The violence is pro-scoial and prophylactic.
Further I can’t figure out what you think society gains by having people running around suggesting reprehensible things so long as they never get carried out.
You seem to think keeping a rabid animal in a petting zoo is a net positive, but as soon as it bites a few people boy howdy will it get a talking to.
It is more moral to use violence to coerce the safety and dignity of your fellow human beings than to force your fellow humans to weather the constant threat of enslavement so you can glorify whatever liberal Neutrality Morality deity you serve.
I mean all things - the severity of the words, the influence of the person, etc. We agree that words are sometimes crossing the line to where a violent reaction is morally justified (if not necessarily recommended or practical, ESPECIALLY in societies with a functioning government), we just disagree on where that line is drawn.
There’s such a thing as trying too hard, and choosing your hills to die on.
Reading the room as well
If you wanna fight for advocacy, but you choose the thread that’s all about slavery, that says a lot about you.
Is there another thread about the morality of advocacy that I could go to instead?
Plus, you’re still acting as if I’ve said that advocating for slavery is good or acceptable.
If you’re arguing about it here, then you are. No ifs ands or buts.
There doesn’t need to be another thread about advocacy for you to go to, there’s the phrase “There’s a time and a place for everything”. This is not the time or the place unless you want to be advocating for slavery.
And sorry, there really isn’t a way around to argue around it. You are advocating for slavery by defending people who advocate for it.
This is an absurdly black-and-white way of looking at morality. Saying that pro-slavery people shouldn’t be assaulted is not by any stretch the same as being pro-slavery oneself.
I think I have a good way to illustrate this, actually. What do you think about, say, torturing pro-slavery people? Or perhaps their families?
It’s possible you think torturing them and their families is going too far. This “too far” feeling would be you defending them just as much as I am; you don’t support slavery, but that doesn’t mean you think any conceivable misfortune should be inflicted on them. Likewise, contrary to what you say, I don’t support slavery but still don’t think certain actions against them are justified.
You still haven’t given an answer to the mob boss example.
I’m not sure what you’re talking about. I may have missed a reply somewhere; I’ll try to find it.
Oh, I see. Thank you for showing me that again.
For the mob boss example, I would say that while it’s still not violence, per se, it still poses enough of a risk to warrant violent reprisal.
So for the advocacy of slavery example, an acceptable use of violent reprisal would have to be directed at someone who is truly influential enough for their suggestion (or “suggestion,” as the case may be,) to reasonably constitute an actual threat.
The only person I can think of who may qualify on the American Right is Trump, because of the whole January 6th insurrection. Clearly some of his followers are keen on violence at his mere suggestion. As far as I’m aware, though, nobody has openly advocated for slavery.
deleted by creator
You do get that by juicing someone’s face like a tomato so soon as they so much as sniff “We should enslave our fellow human beings.” for freshness, no one ever gets the power and influence you are describing and for society that is a good thing?
The violence is pro-scoial and prophylactic.
Further I can’t figure out what you think society gains by having people running around suggesting reprehensible things so long as they never get carried out.
You seem to think keeping a rabid animal in a petting zoo is a net positive, but as soon as it bites a few people boy howdy will it get a talking to.
We can just shoot the animal/ideology. Tolerance is not a moral precept.
It is more moral to use violence to coerce the safety and dignity of your fellow human beings than to force your fellow humans to weather the constant threat of enslavement so you can glorify whatever liberal Neutrality Morality deity you serve.
Then the argument comes down to scale, not principle
I can conceivably get behind that. To clarify, by “scale” you mean the influence of the person doing the advocacy?
I mean all things - the severity of the words, the influence of the person, etc. We agree that words are sometimes crossing the line to where a violent reaction is morally justified (if not necessarily recommended or practical, ESPECIALLY in societies with a functioning government), we just disagree on where that line is drawn.