Are people arguing the armorer, who left live ammunition in a gun, ISN’T responsible for the accident?? I don’t understand who or what he’s arguing against
People are arguing that both are at fault. The armorer is most clearly responsible. However, more than one person can be responsible for something.
A common rule of thumb is to never point a gun at something you don’t want to kill. This is pretty clear outside the realm of a movie studio. On a movie set, it also seems pretty clearly 100% on the side of the armorer since pointing a gun at someone is required for acting. But Baldwin pointed the gun for fun, so it’s a major gray area for a lot of people.
I certainly understand the rules of firearm safety. I guess I was giving a pass to Baldwin given that the movie industry relies pretty heavily on the armourers and also they’re just actors.
But that’s a fair point, not caring about firearm safety isn’t an option if you’re using them as a part of your job. Especially if they’re functional and not just props.
" without absoult certainty do not point at what you are not willing to destroy…" which kind of defeats the idea if you dont for shure fully know without a doubt it wont do exactly that.
That’s a saying for a weapon. What he was handling was not supposed to be a weapon.
On a film set, prop guns are absolutely going to be pointed at people. Watch any movie and tell me if they practice gun safety while they’re actively shooting people.
and who hired those that put live rounds into" not a weapon"… if it was known that he knew this. then he is just as responsible even if he didnt pull the trigger. and even then not weapons eject something. being the wad only is still lethal if close enough. when you throw a punch your not actually supposed to full contact the person. your telling me they had to aim straight at them…
Army dude gave his take on the topic. Random person replied questioning his qualifications to talk about the subject. Army dude explained why he was qualified; he has indeed taken a weapon safety class, he’s led an entire squadron in armed combat. That’s the “don’t you know who I am”.
Regardless of the failure of physical controls, no one seems to be noting that safety training is also not Baldwin’s responsibility.
I certainly don’t look at a rich old hyperlib and think “Yeah, he knows this ‘prop gun’ is just an actual gun.” I don’t look at Baldwin and even think “He knows not to point this at something he isn’t willing to destroy.”
I wouldn’t assume he knows a single thing about guns I didn’t directly tell him and have him repeat back to me.
Something’s strange; because last time I looked into the issue, there was definitely some note about a previous armorer on the crew being fired or not brought to the set on that day. Currently, I admit I’m unable to locate a source on that, but I can’t imagine I was remembering that from nothing.
Are people arguing the armorer, who left live ammunition in a gun, ISN’T responsible for the accident?? I don’t understand who or what he’s arguing against
People are arguing that both are at fault. The armorer is most clearly responsible. However, more than one person can be responsible for something.
A common rule of thumb is to never point a gun at something you don’t want to kill. This is pretty clear outside the realm of a movie studio. On a movie set, it also seems pretty clearly 100% on the side of the armorer since pointing a gun at someone is required for acting. But Baldwin pointed the gun for fun, so it’s a major gray area for a lot of people.
I certainly understand the rules of firearm safety. I guess I was giving a pass to Baldwin given that the movie industry relies pretty heavily on the armourers and also they’re just actors.
But that’s a fair point, not caring about firearm safety isn’t an option if you’re using them as a part of your job. Especially if they’re functional and not just props.
How is that a grey area? He never should’ve gotten a real gun on set, there’s nothing grey.
From what I understand it’s pretty common for Hollywood movie sets to use real guns and fake ammunition.
He was literally at work… He did it more for money than fun.
…people aren’t allowed to have fun at work?
Who said he wasnt having fun?
It was off camera and not related to work at all.
It was on set and very much work related which is why a COWORKER died.
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He pointed the gun at the camera. He didn’t kill the director.
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" without absoult certainty do not point at what you are not willing to destroy…" which kind of defeats the idea if you dont for shure fully know without a doubt it wont do exactly that.
That’s a saying for a weapon. What he was handling was not supposed to be a weapon.
On a film set, prop guns are absolutely going to be pointed at people. Watch any movie and tell me if they practice gun safety while they’re actively shooting people.
and who hired those that put live rounds into" not a weapon"… if it was known that he knew this. then he is just as responsible even if he didnt pull the trigger. and even then not weapons eject something. being the wad only is still lethal if close enough. when you throw a punch your not actually supposed to full contact the person. your telling me they had to aim straight at them…
Army dude gave his take on the topic. Random person replied questioning his qualifications to talk about the subject. Army dude explained why he was qualified; he has indeed taken a weapon safety class, he’s led an entire squadron in armed combat. That’s the “don’t you know who I am”.
Regardless of the failure of physical controls, no one seems to be noting that safety training is also not Baldwin’s responsibility.
I certainly don’t look at a rich old hyperlib and think “Yeah, he knows this ‘prop gun’ is just an actual gun.” I don’t look at Baldwin and even think “He knows not to point this at something he isn’t willing to destroy.”
I wouldn’t assume he knows a single thing about guns I didn’t directly tell him and have him repeat back to me.
What armorer?
Alec Baldwin, as producer for the show in question, conducted that shoot without one on the set.
Thus why Baldwin is the one at fault for the shooting - and, funny enough, NOT because he was the one holding the trigger at the time it happened.
…what are you talking about? There was an armorer, Hannah Gutierrez, and she’s being charged.
Something’s strange; because last time I looked into the issue, there was definitely some note about a previous armorer on the crew being fired or not brought to the set on that day. Currently, I admit I’m unable to locate a source on that, but I can’t imagine I was remembering that from nothing.
While you may not be remembering it from nothing, you were obviously misinformed. This is easily verifiable.
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