But this character died stationary on the floor. Unless it’s the Earth moving away from her as part of its normal orbit, in which case she’ll get to visit it again soon
No because the sun and the earth are always moving in a line and an orbit in addition to their orbit.
The actual absolute position would resemble a curving helix or something. Nothing in the universe is ever in the same general location twice for our current understanding. Everything is moving.
Not exactly. Things are moving relative to each other, but it really is all relative and local. There’s no central point in the universe that the earth is moving away from. The earth is moving relative to the sun. But relative to you, the earth isn’t moving. Relative to the earth, the sun is moving.
There’s no reason for her to move away from the earth unless she’s being accelerated by something. It’s not like the earth would zip away because it is moving relative to some distant, arbitrary point and she suddenly becomes “stationary”. There’s no universal “stationary”.
I guess where it gets messy is that the earth IS being accelerated to some extent by different things (other planets, the moon, etc). I’m not sure how much. So if she didn’t accelerate along with it at all, it would move away from her.
There’s no reason for her to move away from the earth unless she’s being accelerated by something.
Isn’t the Earth accelerated by the Sun’s gravity, while she isn’t anymore? If yes, she would keep going straight while Earth keeps following its circular orbit, which is equivalent to her moving away from Earth.
there is no center of the universe, nor a universal grid that things can reference. one of the most fundamental tenets of astrophysics is that everything is relative and statements like “travelling straight” are simply nonsensical unless you specify what it’s travelling straight in relation to.
I think the existence of ghosts at all implies at the least some sort of spiritual plane or dimension that they’re partially in, or at the “worst” straight up magic wherein ghosts cannot interact with the physical world, even with gravity.
Being able to see may be part of that magic or a function of the spiritual plane as well.
That would, I think, be able to explain the events of the comic.
If instead we assume ghosts were entirely explainable by science, that could change things. We’d also have to account for the photons interacting with her and letting her see.
Edit: no, as other people pointed out it doesn’t make any sense that she wouldn’t be “affected” by gravity even with no mass.
That’s the assumption in my comment: “while she isn’t anymore” accelerated by gravity. I think that’s what we could infer from the trajectory on the comics.
If she is still affected by gravity, but passes through matter, she would immedietly fall through the floor and start orbiting the earth through the planet.
Without gravity she would no longer follow the earth’s/sun’s/etc. orbit.
but the question is what would determine the trajectory then, there is no universal arbitrary straight line, that’s a concept that just doesn’t make sense under physics as we know it.
Even massless particles gain an effective mass and thus interact with gravity/spacetime; according to everything we’ve observed and calculated so far the only sensible result is acting like light does, and weakly interacting with gravity.
Well, yea, idk how moving through spacetime without following it’s curvature would makes any sense. Which is what gravity is. Meaning the comic makes no sense.
I love these discussions, they’re not possible but I always learn something. Why would you believe that her drift axis is aligned with the sun and not the earth? What about the moon or Mars? Why do you think that the sun is special?
The sun would be the natural parent coordinate system of Mars, Earth, and (grandparent of) The Moon. So I see her centered on either Earth, the Sun, the Centre of the Milkway, Centre of the Local Group, etc. etc.
The speed at which she drifted through the wall wasn’t on level of thousands of km’s per second, it was on the order of a few meters per second.
This would admittedly rule out the Sun, since the Earth has an orbital speed of 29 km/s around the sun[1], and a spin velocity of 0.5 km/s[2], giving a minimum of 28 km/s. If we factor in orbit of the sun from the Galactic Centre at 240 km/s, giving 240 +/ 29, which is still too high for our range. If we factor in the speed of the Galaxy, then we’re just adding more zeroes.
What about the moon or Mars?
So, to come full circle on my comment: Yeah maybe, the relative speed of moon and Mars would be on the order of meters per second that we see in the panel. I just don’t see why they of all planetary bodies would be chosen for ghosts, instead of other natural origins.
Yeah I thought that too, if the spirit isn’t gravitationally bound earth would move away from it considerably faster. This did get me to ask myself a good question. (This isn’t it) What if we assume the spirit in the comic is dark matter and preserved any momentum at the time of death? So Earth’s gravity is pulling on it but not enough to overcome the momentum the spirit had when it broke off from the body. The Sun and Earth could be special in that constructed situation. The question I thought was, does the electromagnetic, strong and weak forces have anything to do with keeping me planted on the planet?
Ghosts are not matter. Thus they must be energy. But they’re still not massless. Uh uh, ghost wishes are like magnetism and uh…yeah, ghost wishes change axial drift, but only relative to things the spirit perceives as greater… fuck I need coffee to make this work.
There absolutely is a coordinate system like that, in the comic it would be the spirit’s coordinate system with them at the center. There actually is an absolute center of the universe and it is you and me, and everything else in the universe is at the center of it’s universe (depending on your definition of the universe). That’s what special relativity is all about, each thing is at the center of it’s own universe and you have to translate any measurements between coordinate systems.
All the comic implies is that a sprit doesn’t follow null geodesics, but that’s general relativity.
There actually is an absolute center of the universe and it is you and me
I think that’s the observable universe, not just a specific definition of the universe. I believe the consensus is that the observable universe is only a part of the universe centered on each observer, and there’s no center to the “full” universe.
This implies there’s an absolute center to the universe relative to which the earth moves but spirits do not.
Or you just maintain your velocity at death. With no other forces, that’s the way you head forever
But this character died stationary on the floor. Unless it’s the Earth moving away from her as part of its normal orbit, in which case she’ll get to visit it again soon
No because the sun and the earth are always moving in a line and an orbit in addition to their orbit.
The actual absolute position would resemble a curving helix or something. Nothing in the universe is ever in the same general location twice for our current understanding. Everything is moving.
Not exactly. Things are moving relative to each other, but it really is all relative and local. There’s no central point in the universe that the earth is moving away from. The earth is moving relative to the sun. But relative to you, the earth isn’t moving. Relative to the earth, the sun is moving.
There’s no reason for her to move away from the earth unless she’s being accelerated by something. It’s not like the earth would zip away because it is moving relative to some distant, arbitrary point and she suddenly becomes “stationary”. There’s no universal “stationary”.
I guess where it gets messy is that the earth IS being accelerated to some extent by different things (other planets, the moon, etc). I’m not sure how much. So if she didn’t accelerate along with it at all, it would move away from her.
Isn’t the Earth accelerated by the Sun’s gravity, while she isn’t anymore? If yes, she would keep going straight while Earth keeps following its circular orbit, which is equivalent to her moving away from Earth.
again, straight compared to what?
there is no center of the universe, nor a universal grid that things can reference. one of the most fundamental tenets of astrophysics is that everything is relative and statements like “travelling straight” are simply nonsensical unless you specify what it’s travelling straight in relation to.
The… Earth and Sun.
Those are the reference frames.
You start by traveling with the Earth.
Gravity “turns off” for you.
The Earth then curves away as it orbits the Sun.
You just follow the tangent line.
Yes, that was my point. I think it aligns good enough with the comics.
You know…I believe you’re right. If she somehow became totally massless.
Edit: no, as other people pointed out it doesn’t make any sense that she wouldn’t be “affected” by gravity even with no mass.
I think the existence of ghosts at all implies at the least some sort of spiritual plane or dimension that they’re partially in, or at the “worst” straight up magic wherein ghosts cannot interact with the physical world, even with gravity.
Being able to see may be part of that magic or a function of the spiritual plane as well.
That would, I think, be able to explain the events of the comic.
If instead we assume ghosts were entirely explainable by science, that could change things. We’d also have to account for the photons interacting with her and letting her see.
That’s the assumption in my comment: “while she isn’t anymore” accelerated by gravity. I think that’s what we could infer from the trajectory on the comics.
If she is still affected by gravity, but passes through matter, she would immedietly fall through the floor and start orbiting the earth through the planet.
Without gravity she would no longer follow the earth’s/sun’s/etc. orbit.
but the question is what would determine the trajectory then, there is no universal arbitrary straight line, that’s a concept that just doesn’t make sense under physics as we know it.
Even massless particles gain an effective mass and thus interact with gravity/spacetime; according to everything we’ve observed and calculated so far the only sensible result is acting like light does, and weakly interacting with gravity.
Well, yea, idk how moving through spacetime without following it’s curvature would makes any sense. Which is what gravity is. Meaning the comic makes no sense.
Holy shit, you’re right.
What the absolute fuck OP
We don’t know if her drift axes are centered on the sun or not. I’m going to believe that they are
I love these discussions, they’re not possible but I always learn something. Why would you believe that her drift axis is aligned with the sun and not the earth? What about the moon or Mars? Why do you think that the sun is special?
The sun would be the natural parent coordinate system of Mars, Earth, and (grandparent of) The Moon. So I see her centered on either Earth, the Sun, the Centre of the Milkway, Centre of the Local Group, etc. etc.
The speed at which she drifted through the wall wasn’t on level of thousands of km’s per second, it was on the order of a few meters per second.
This would admittedly rule out the Sun, since the Earth has an orbital speed of 29 km/s around the sun[1], and a spin velocity of 0.5 km/s[2], giving a minimum of 28 km/s. If we factor in orbit of the sun from the Galactic Centre at 240 km/s, giving 240 +/ 29, which is still too high for our range. If we factor in the speed of the Galaxy, then we’re just adding more zeroes.
So, to come full circle on my comment: Yeah maybe, the relative speed of moon and Mars would be on the order of meters per second that we see in the panel. I just don’t see why they of all planetary bodies would be chosen for ghosts, instead of other natural origins.
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_orbit
2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_rotation#Angular_speed
3: https://www.universetoday.com/133414/distance-speed-suns-orbit-around-galactic-centre-measured/
Yeah I thought that too, if the spirit isn’t gravitationally bound earth would move away from it considerably faster. This did get me to ask myself a good question. (This isn’t it) What if we assume the spirit in the comic is dark matter and preserved any momentum at the time of death? So Earth’s gravity is pulling on it but not enough to overcome the momentum the spirit had when it broke off from the body. The Sun and Earth could be special in that constructed situation. The question I thought was, does the electromagnetic, strong and weak forces have anything to do with keeping me planted on the planet?
Ghosts are not matter. Thus they must be energy. But they’re still not massless. Uh uh, ghost wishes are like magnetism and uh…yeah, ghost wishes change axial drift, but only relative to things the spirit perceives as greater… fuck I need coffee to make this work.
If the only force no longer acting on her is gravity, she just instantly got a massive new vector
There absolutely is a coordinate system like that, in the comic it would be the spirit’s coordinate system with them at the center. There actually is an absolute center of the universe and it is you and me, and everything else in the universe is at the center of it’s universe (depending on your definition of the universe). That’s what special relativity is all about, each thing is at the center of it’s own universe and you have to translate any measurements between coordinate systems.
All the comic implies is that a sprit doesn’t follow null geodesics, but that’s general relativity.
Oh stop it you🥰
I think that’s the observable universe, not just a specific definition of the universe. I believe the consensus is that the observable universe is only a part of the universe centered on each observer, and there’s no center to the “full” universe.
I think they simply became totally massless and is no longer affected by gravity.
Photons don’t have mass, yet they are affected by gravity.
Yea, you are right, I didn’t take the two extra seconds to think about it.
Easy enough mistake to make. We live in a super unintuitive universe.