Tell Putin to go home.
Tell Ukraine to stop overthrowing democratically elected governments, and to stop killing its own people in the east.
What democratically elected government did Ukraine overthrow?
Its own government, in 2014, with the help of the US.
- Reuters, 2014: Leaked audio reveals embarrassing U.S. exchange on Ukraine, EU
- Leaked recording between Nuland and Pyatt: audio | transcript
- CouterPunch, 2014: US Imperialism and the Ukraine Coup
- Consortium News, 2015: The Mess That Nuland Made
- Jacobin, 2022: A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War
- Consortium News, 2022: Evidence of US-Backed Coup in Kiev
- Al Jazeera, 2022: Why did Ukraine suspend 11 ‘pro-Russia’ parties?
Oh. So got couped. Is couped a word? It read like Ukraine was going around creating FreedomTM for other countries.
Either way haven’t heard much about this allged coup of Ukraine so I shall read those and make up my mind on it.
The US has wanted to break up or otherwise weaken/isolate Russia ever since almost immediately after the break-up of the USSR. That’s why it’s been expanding NATO ever-closer to Russia despite originally having sworn up & down never to move one inch eastward. The US couldn’t allow a Ukrainian government to stand that was friendly with Russia.
The US doesn’t want Europe and Russia to develop closer ties, because it doesn’t want the “Eurasian landmass” to ever cohere, because then it would become too self-sufficient and powerful for the US to control. Zbigniew Brzezinski laid this theory out when the Soviet Union fell. That’s why the US tried to convince Europe not to build Nord Stream 2 and then later not to turn it on, why Biden said he would “bring an end to it” if Russia invaded, and why they ultimately did bring an end to it.
The US also very much wants regime change or balkanization in Russia so it can resume its neocolonial plundering of it, which started under Yeltsin and ended under Putin. That’s why the US has a special hate for Putin in particular.
The US has been meddling in Europe ever since WWII, and Ukraine has an even longer fascist history.
- The U.S. Did Not Defeat Fascism in WWII, It Discretely Internationalized It
- History of Fascism in Ukraine: Part I, Part II, Part III, Part IV
- BBC, 2014: Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict
- Human Rights Watch, 2014: Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing Civilians
- The Hill, 2017: The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
- The Guardian, 2017: ‘I want to bring up a warrior’: Ukraine’s far-right children’s camp – video
- WaPo, 2018: The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know
- Reuters, 2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
- The Nation, 2019: Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Biden said he would “bring an end to it” if Russia invaded
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
While you’re at it - also read up on Ukraine’s “Orange Revolution”. Since gaining its independence, the only way Ukraine has managed to install pro-western governments is by revolutions and coups.
wow, how original
Polling says so.
should really work on that reading comprehension
Polling says I probably should.
Well 840 people (taken online) are not really representative of my country position. Multiple real surveys made by professionals & neutral pollers gave us a totally different picture on these questions…
Well 840 people (taken online) are not really representative of my country position.
Wait till you learn how random samples work.
Multiple real surveys made by professionals & neutral pollers gave us a totally different picture on these questions…
[citation needed]
Also, do enlighten us on what basis you claim that this survey wasn’t made by professionals & neutral pollers.
Polling has rules to follow to became valid in France. Their are laws that make sure the poll is fair and manipulations can’t apply, in the way questions are asked (neutral tone, full range of answer possible, etc) and where and to who, the minimal amount to have, the medium to use to receive the vote, etc…
If you do that, you are what i call here a professional neutral poller.
In this case, it’s not the case. How i know? Well, it’s an internet poll! So no way to really check the reality of people behind (nationality, age, etc).
I put the officia text informing us than Internet poll can’t be used as real poll because you don’t have a representative sample of the population and result can be manipulated.
Les enquêtes sur internet
La commission a été saisie du problème des simulations de votes effectuées par certains journaux sur des panels d’internautes.
Ce type d’enquête n’est pas mené auprès d’échantillons représentatifs de la population. Ils ne constituent donc pas des sondages au sens de la loi du 19 juillet 1977.
Ces enquêtes doivent donc être accompagnées de précautions de présentation, appelant l’attention les lecteurs sur la prudence nécessaire à leur interprétation.
in other words France has its own private definition for what a professional neutral poller is.
I hate to be a killjoy but I wonder how many of the people who answered “Yes the war has killed or injured hundreds of thousands of people and it needs to stop” really meant to say “Yes the war has killed [etc…] and it must stop with a negotiated settlement resulting in the unconditional surrender of Russia”.
This is as useful as polling relatives on whether a couple should go through with a divorce.
If the relatives were the ones funding the marriage then it would be a better comparison.
This is such a bullshit survey, the biggest yes section is basically asking “is war bad and does it kill a lot of people”. Of course we all want the war to end, and Putin can end it any time he wants
We absolutely do, once Russia decides to pick up their toys and fuck off back to their side of the border. And that includes vacating occupied Crimea.
Since that’s obviously not going to happen, it logically follows that what you’re actually advocating for is to make sure that fighting continues until Ukraine is completely destroyed. I guess bloodthirsty psychopaths don’t care how many people die and have their lives ruined.
Yeah, that’s the problem with Putin and his crew of useful vatniks.
They’ll put a gun to your head and steal your house then blame you for not negotiating it away for free.
Yeah that’s totally what happened.
I’m glad you agree, and that any war started by a capitalist oligarchy, but especially a blatantly imperialist land grab, should be opposed with the full force available to the people, in solidarity with both the enslaved soldiers of the aggressor nation and the working class of the defender, who will, as always, bear the brunt of the horrors unleashed by oligarchal greed.
Weird how the chief of NATO disagrees with you , I guess you know something he doesn’t:
The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.
So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders. He has got the exact opposite.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_218172.htm
I’ll never cease to be amazed how western propagandists managed to convince people that Russia is out on a mission of imperial conquests. Imagine believing that the largest country in the world, with a low aging population, is trading people for territory.
The invading with tanks and waves of Nazi mercenaries and conscripts is what tends to give that impression.
That’s very interesting. Turns out that it’s people who stopped these people
- https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/
- https://jacobinmag.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea
- https://www.internationalmagz.com/articles/conversation-with-dmitri-kovalevich
from doing these things in Donbas
- https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/e/7/233896.pdf
- https://www.mintpressnews.com/volodymyr-zelensky-secret-police-hunted-down-opposition-anatoly-shariy/280200/
- https://twitter.com/paulius60/status/1611148483859255296
- https://yewtu.be/watch?v=bN68OfFKaWs
who are the actual nazis. You learn new things every day I guess.
Do you understand that it’s because of Russia that NATO is expanding? The countries neighboring Russia are afraid of what is just now happening in Ukraine?
For smaller countries such as in baltics joining a defense alliance is the only way. They’ve been illegally occupied by Russia before, they don’t want that shit back.
I understand that this is the narrative NATO propagandists like to sell. The reality is that the governments are captured by US politically, and largely don’t represent the interests of the people. This is why there’s massive political unrest all across Europe now, including the Baltics.
Removed by mod
The least deranged liberal has logged on everybody.
You never know what you’re gonna get from the “no tankie shit” instance.
Weird how the anti tankies are the ones who are literally screaming for more tanks.
Removed by mod
scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds
Removed by mod
whatever helps you cope
lol they gave Ukraine fancy NATO gear hand over fist and Russia turned it all to scrap
You’re just gonna have to get over the fact that whitey doesn’t rule the world
When is your deployment?
I wonder what this deleted comment said 🤷♂️
Anyone with an account older than mine knows where the modlog is.
Removed by mod
“while Ukraine still has levarage … imperfect victory”
That’s a view of the situation I can’t understand. What is the leverage they currently hold? How would it be any kind of victory to settle now that they have lost so many of their cities and so much area?
Basically, the reality of the situation is that Ukraine ends up in a worse position with each and every day. If Ukraine took the peace deal back in 2022 it would’ve been immeasurably better than any deal it can hope for now. Western support peaked during the time of 2023 offensive, and it’s been rapidly declining since. The west pouring in money and weapons into Ukraine has been the only reason it was able to keep fighting this long. As the available resources dry up, the situation will continue to decline at an accelerating pace.
Russian propoganda much?
Ah yes, Institute for Global Affairs, a famous Russian propagandist outlet 🤡
Funny how there’s no, “Yes the war should end with Russia’s total withdrawal from their illegally occupied territory” option
I wish sanctions included cutting Russia off from the Internet. A majority of these both sides and Russia supporting accounts would magically go offline.
Funny how there’s no, “I want a pony and a trip to Santa’s workshop” option
I wish sanctions included cutting Russia off from the Internet. A majority of these both sides and Russia supporting accounts would magically go offline.
Ah here come the liberal values of free speech and democracy. 🤡
Still sticking with BlueAnon conspiracy theories?
- IT Pro: Cambridge Analytica models were exaggerated and ineffective, [UK Information Commissioner’s Office] claims
- Wall Street Journal: Mueller Doesn’t Find Trump Campaign Conspired With Russia
- Jacobin: Democrats and Mainstream Media Were the Real Kremlin Assets
- Washington Post: FEC fines DNC, Clinton for violating rules in funding Steele dossier
- Washington Post: Russian trolls on Twitter had little influence on 2016 voters
- Jacobin: It Turns Out Hillary Clinton, Not Russian Bots, Lost the 2016 Election
- Matt Taibbi: Move Over, Jayson Blair: Meet Hamilton 68, the New King of Media Fraud The Twitter Files reveal that one of the most common news sources of the Trump era was a scam, making ordinary American political conversations look like Russian spywork
- Jacobin: Why the Twitter Files Are in Fact a Big Deal On the Left, there’s been a temptation to dismiss the revelations about Twitter’s internal censorship system that have emerged from the so-called Twitter Files project. But that would be a mistake: the news is important and the details are alarming.
- MSNBC Repeats Hamilton 68 Lies 279 Times in 11 Minutes
- Jeff Gerth at Columbia Journalism Review on Russiagate: Editor’s Note | Part one | Part two | Part three | Part four
- Matt Taibbi: WMD, Part II: CIA “Cooked The Intelligence” To Hide That Russia Favored Clinton, Not Trump In 2016
- Chris Hedges: Why Russiagate Won’t Go Away
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
MSNBC Repeats Hamilton 68 Lies 279 Times in 11 Minutes
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
“[…] imperfect victory”
What? Are they going to push some winter war narrative after this is over?
deleted by creator
