Stop making this an election issue. It’s not. You’re just helping Trump
Having your tax dollar fund an active genocide is an issue for many of us
This is the issue for me. I care about other things too, but I won’t vote for someone funding a genocide.
I’m hoping I can throw my support behind Kamala (if she is the nominee). She seems to be a less blindly pro-Israel than Biden, but I’ll feel better if she confirms it.
I’ll understand if she has to wait until after the convention before declaring a stance.
The US was founded on genocide. Right here, on this soil. And everyone at the time went along with it in the name of Manifest Destiny. But it didn’t end there. The US either directly or indirectly enabled genocide around the world through most of its history.
What happens when you can’t support Kamala? And Trump wins? He absolutely supports genocide and will help it along at a scale we’ve yet to see in Palestine. And worse. And he’ll bring problems directly to you, in your own home.
Would you trade millions of dead men, women, and children in Palestine for millions of dead men, women, and children in Palestine, other countries, and here at home as well?
Because I don’t see what you have to gain by helping Trump win.
The US was founded on genocide. Right here, on this soil. And everyone at the time went along with it in the name of Manifest Destiny. But it didn’t end there. The US either directly or indirectly enabled genocide around the world through most of its history.
Well, I guess genocide’s okay then.
Sorry for bothering you with my conscience.
Would you trade millions of dead men, women, and children in Palestine for millions of dead men, women, and children in Palestine, other countries, and here at home as well?
I don’t trade lives. If I can’t back Kamala (and she’s the nominee), I’ll vote third-party.
This comment is honestly so telling. You’re okay with Trump getting re-elected and sending even MORE weapons to Israel, just so long as you personally don’t have to feel anything on your “conscience”.
Sounds more driven by selfishness than actual compassion if you ask me.
just so long as you personally don’t have to feel anything on your “conscience”.
And if you’re willing to do unconscionable things because your twisted logic tells you it’s actually for the greater good, then you’re not much different from Biden.
What a childishly simplistic worldview.
I honestly don’t know how to write this so it doesn’t sound like I’m attacking you but I’m going to try.
Disclaimer, Kamala Harris hasn’t stated anything on her stance involving Israel/Gaza conflict yet (as the presidential nominee), so my statements below may be a non-issue for you come election time anyway…
While it might feel like “doing the right thing” by not voting or voting third party, you are giving a vote to Trump if you do so, which is worse. It fucking sucks that we have this shitty two party system and all of sane people who aren’t just “my team vs your team” hate it… but I really hope you decide that your vote won’t be for Kamala but against Trump, since he will be far worse, not only for Gaza but Ukraine as well.
I’m sure the guy who chopped his arm off (or whatever it was) when he was hiking and it got trapped didn’t want to do so, but sometimes we have to make choices we don’t like. You’re choosing to let trans people, people of color, immigrants, Palestinians, and a whole lot of other people get fucked by Republicans because you can’t do a little dirty work.
I hope you don’t have a pet, because you sometimes have to clean up shit. It sucks and no one likes doing it, but sometimes we have to choose to do things like that so other people don’t have to suffer the consequences of if we decide to take the easy route and pretend it didn’t exist.
Well, what I mean is that voting “against” a genocide across the globe could very well enable a genocide here, because it can and has happened before.
I live in a reservation, but I can drive 20 minutes to see the house my great grandmother lost to a white man because he was more important. My family tree has lots of people that died in their 20’s and 30’s of “Tuberculosis” and other BS reasons just to lose their land allotments, and we didn’t even have headrights to our land in our tribal deal to be removed from our homeland by force.
So yes, genocide in the US is always fresh in my mind and I don’t see that it’d take a lot to whip up Proud Boys and MAGA heads into doing the next round on anyone that wasn’t straight, white, and Protestant. And I cannot fathom why anyone would enable Trump to do that again because of Palestine, which Trump would enable anyway.
You do trade lives. You actively are making a choice. If that choice is to do nothing when you otherwise can, that isn’t not choosing. Make your choice. I hope you can live with the consequences, because so many others won’t if you choose to not vote against active support of genocide.
Mind you, I don’t live in a swing state, so my vote doesn’t matter. But I might send $50 to the Harris campaign to help her beat Trump (if she indicates that she’ll stop supporting the genocide).
Except you don’t have a choice, so it isn’t. The only election issues are ones that you can participate in. The US will sell arms to Israel. That’s not going to stop, no matter who is elected. How about we elect the person who may not actively encourage them to use them relentlessly on civilians. That’s an issue you get to vote on.
“Stop complaining about starving children being blown to pieces because I want to win!”
Vote Trump then, see how that works out
What right do you have to tell people what issues are important to them when they are deciding who to vote for? What about Muslim voters? Should they just forget about the genocide because you said so?
Both parties and candidates support Israel. That in itself makes it a useless issue to decide an election on. It needs to be dealt with in a different way clearly. You don’t want to vote for Dems, stay home or vote Trump. See how that works out for Palestine
Either side she chooses will lose her votes. I don’t know that anyone will accept any sort of fence riding, either.
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How about charge Ohios senator with treason
For what?
Probably referring to the recent calls for a civil war.
Oh the state senator!
For treason
I agree that she should, though I kind of wonder how realistic it is that she will before her official nomination. Last thing we need is AIPAC getting triggered at such a precarious moment and trying to turn the table over.
I don’t know everything about her views on Israel, other than she’s signaled she’s uncomfortable with Biden’s zealotry in the past and has been very quiet. But she will probably need to address the issue before the election, she needs to be percieved as distinct enough from Biden to get back the people in places like Deerborn, MI and such. A major reason Biden abandoned his run was because the Uncommitted vote just wasn’t going away.
I’m personally willing to accept Biden stepping down as a win for the party and a blow to zionists, to me it’s enough of a referendum on his zionist policies for me to stomach a compromise on Harris. But I’m not arab american and I don’t have family in Palestine, so I would still understand people who won’t accept anything but stark condemnation by Harris.
Yeah, my expectation for Harris is an unspecific call for peace and support for a two state solution. Biden is out of the mainstream in the party, she just needs to not be that.
Last thing we need is AIPAC getting triggered at such a precarious moment
Yeah, the last thing we need is others making their own decisions based on truth.
Firstly, AIPAC has no relationship to the truth, they’re only there to disrupt the truth.
And no one said she shouldn’t be honest about her positions, but it’s still politics and we can all pretty much guess where she stands on Israel already; not as far left as anyone wants her to be, but not as right-wing as Biden/Trump. That’s the best deal we’re getting this cycle as far as I’m concerned.
But again, I’m not going to tell anyone who feels they can’t vote for Harris if she’s not strong enough in her condemnation of Israel that they need to vote for her. I just spent the last 6 months being told that I need to accept Biden’s genocidal policies and it’s pointless to threaten the party with a non-vote, I would never turn around and do that to other voters because it’s bullshit.
Firstly, AIPAC has no relationship to the truth, they’re only there to disrupt the truth.
I understand. Because you disagree with their message whatever goes.
And no one said she shouldn’t be honest about her positions
You just recommended she engage in propaganda to thwart the propagandists.
I didn’t read the rest because the core of what you’re saying is rotten.
I am not big on Harris but if she mirrors Biden on everything except Israel I will be extremely happy with her.
I wouldn’t say extremely happy, I think he’s too fixated on corporate welfare at the expense of progressive policy, but it’d be good enough as a stop gap.
She definitely needs to be more aggressive on climate change mitigation though, as far as I’m concerned it would be hard for a president to be too radical in that regard. Biden should’ve been pushing hard for the Green New Deal. Putting aside all other political battles against fascism, we are in deep trouble with the climate.
Of course there are a lot of things I would like her to do as well. I’m simply stating she is a lukewarm candidate but if all I got was a Biden replica that took a stand against genocide I would be happy with her presidency.
I think there is a real issue with Americans that want the moon and if they don’t get it they throw a tantrum.
I would love for her to lower the national debt, fix climate change, stop our dependence on oil, fix the housing shortage. I could keep going. My point is I know even accomplishing 1 of those would be extremely difficult so I would accept Biden 2.0.
I think there is a real issue with Americans that want the moon and if they don’t get it they throw a tantrum.
Wanting someone who treats climate change with the seriousness and urgency it deserves is not asking for the moon. Wanting a functioning healthcare system is not asking for the moon. Wanting bodily autonomy is not asking for the moon. Wanting your politicians to aggressively pursue a policy that was already implemented and proven to halve child poverty is not asking for the moon.
The narrative needs to stop that progressives are demanding “perfect”. Basic center-left policy should not categorized as excess. That narrative is what brought us to this crisis we’re in, all the compromises on the most basic left wing positions. The “asking too much” narrative needs to end, people need to keep demanding and making themselves a thorn in the sides of neoliberals every time they try to drag the overton window to the right.
I’m voting for Harris, that’s my compromise as a progressive, I’m not going to stop criticizing the democratic right-wing or stop demanding better policy though, that’s not part of the deal.
i truly think the twitter “left” thinks hamas will just pack up and go home or israel will just drop everything if the us stops weapon sales
i truly think the twitter “left” thinks the US should stop supplying weapons towards genocide.
Of course not. But I’d be a lot more comfortable with our president not actively supporting it. I don’t use Twitter, I’m just an American jew who is deeply ashamed of Israel’s behavior.
If you told people in the 90s about the rise of Chatgtp and AI, and then told them that AIPAC had control over both parties and was forcing them to support genocide…
They’d’ve written The Matrix?
Sky urged to change color to Green.
She already had my vote… If she trully stops the US from supporting a Genocide by sending money and weapons to Israel, then she has my full support.
No presidential candidate is going to do more than lip service until the situation there changes drastically. From a political standpoint, this is only an issue at all for the under 30 crowd. Even then, it’s almost exclusively an issue for the demographics that are going to vote democrat or just stay home, most are smart enough to realize that the other side would be worse. Even if the youth turnout somehow doubled, this probably still wouldn’t make up for how deeply deeply unpopular the Palestinian government is with every other demographic. Anyone who is old enough to remember when the current organization in charge first got going is looking at the younger generations like they are insane.
She’s much more likely to just be more generically silent and passive on the issue now that her exposure is higher. I would bet she actually dials it back even more than she did on her last speech.
I’m very curious how Harris will act now that she doesn’t need to secure the nomination. Here’s hoping it unleashes her better judgement to call things out.
The copycat former VP’s VP being expected not to also copycat.
Unless she actually became president, I doubt her stance would change unfortunately
