Yeah, now he can work all day on battery instead of having to carry around a charger because the shitty ass laptop is out of battery in 2 hours somehow, depite being much slower than the macbook
Yeah, it’s not a brand man. That’s part of what makes it great. A brand is something created to profit off of, which always ends up worse for the end user. Linux is not there to make profit. It’s whole purpose of existing is to serve the user.
From the wiki (emphasis mine): A brand is a name, term, design, symbol or any other feature that distinguishes one seller’s good or service from those of other sellers.
What are they selling? It’s free. It’s not being sold.
Just saying, if you had spent as much on a laptop as you did on a MacBook, you would get a full work days of battery.
It’s the same failure point apple fans have about Android. Yeah there are cheap androids. They suck, but also they cost$100-$200 new. What’s apples offering in that price range?
Realistically with the new apple M-series stuff this is just not the case. The battery life is absolutely nuts. Especially compared to high end Linux laptops.
The new Snapdragon laptops are getting 15h+ of battery life, which is a couple of hours less than the new Macs (macs have bigger batteries) in the same benchmarks. The next gen Ryzen AI 300 Omnibook is said to have 20h+… but why do people want so much out of their battery? I’ve only used laptops for work and I can’t remember being more than a couple of hours at a time outside a dock.
Do any of the Snapdragon laptops not suck? I haven’t used any of them, but I’m looking for:
high quality keyboard - I love my ThinkPad E495’s keyboard (which is a bit worse than my old T440), but everything seems to use really short travel keys these days (and my 2019 Macbook Pro for work absolutely sucks in the keyboard dept)
physical mouse buttons - I love my ThinkPad’s TrackPoint + middle mouse combo, it’s great for scrolling through documents
comfortable keyboard layout - I like the position of page up/down, home, end, etc on my ThinkPad, but most laptops suck with key placement
I’m excited to get a new Macbook Pro next year (our company has a 4-year replacement cycle), mostly for better CPU performance (my coworker’s M1 runs our tests in 1/4 the time vs my Intel Macbook Pro) and battery life (mine frequently dies in meetings), but there’s no way I’m buying one for myself. So I’m looking for an alternative.
I’d really like a Framework, but it doesn’t have physical mouse buttons (very strong preference) or a TrackPoint (I can budge here), and the keyboard layout looks kind of crappy. The best so far seems to be the ThinkPad T14s Gen 6, but I’m really trying to get away from ThinkPad due to their horrendous Motorola bootloader unlock policy (i.e. you agree to never resell your device, and your warranty is void), and if that’s the direction their company is going, I would prefer to avoid them, and it’s kind of expensive (starts at $1275). The rest that I’ve seen seem to have crappy keyboards and no mouse buttons.
I wouldn’t pay the premium to be a beta tester for Qualcomm for the new Snapdragons. They’ll be cheaper, have better drivers and more laptops to choose from in a couple of years.
What terminals don’t have power outlets easily available? I think even many planes do, although I haven’t paid attention to that because I’ve never needed it.
the battery life of machines with hot swapable batteries is arguably better considering you can hot swap them forever. And with more modern hardware, they’re a lot more power efficient so you could get a ton of work done on a handful of batts
well i mean aside from the part where the intel laptops were engineered like shit and didn’t work because they couldn’t cool themselves, yeah. And the part where they tried to make the butterfly keyboard, and the part where the accidentally made the display cable too short, and still haven’t put out a repair tab for that one yet.
And the part where they accidentally put the gnd next to 51v causing it to immediately short and kill the entire device if even so much as a little bit of water showed up. The part where they only put USB C on their laptops and never put USB C on their phones, even though the whole point of using USB C was that it’s “one cable”
or the part where the release the ipad pro as a laptop replacement and it’s still not a laptop replacement because they refuse to make the OS anything more usable than a tablet, or the part where the new macbooks are shipped with 8GB of ram at all, for some reason. I don’t what the point of that is. Just ship with 16 minimum.
And the part where the also fucked up hardware crypto so bad they had to disable it permanently killing their crypto speeds, but hey, they’re new to the game, they havent been making their own hardware since… Oh about 2010. Or like that one iphone 6 release they did, where it was a little bendy.
but yeah no it seems like they finally figured out how to make a laptop. I can certainly give them that.
I have done a full 8 hours of work on my Dell Latitude 5440 before on battery. I put it in bat saver and it lasted me the whole work day.
But I re cognize something: why would I need to do that?
I sat a desk or my couch all day both of which had a convenient outlet. There was no point in doing that all on bat. Yeah it’s impressive to have a crazy long battery life and is why I wanta MacBook for coffee shop coding days, but again, there’s almost guaranteed to be convenient outlets and I own a 145Watt battery bank if needed. Thus my $150 ThinkPad E495 has been reaching 16+ hours of use without needing a wall wart.
Maybe your use case is different but mine where I’m certainly going to be stationary enough to use a plug or a battery bank means I can’t justify the apple tax. Plenty of people have done this calculation hence why Apple still doesn’t have an appreciable enterprise market share let alone a competitive one.
Ah yes, unethical company, as opposed to an Ethical company like who? Asus who was just caught overcharging their customers on RMAs?
HP? The most evil printer manufacturer on the planet?
Keep in mind my first choice, Framework did not sell in my country at the time, still might not.
Not having to have battery anxiety is not a sales pitch, it’s just good stuff, if you’d have a software developer job, you could maybe understand
And you also just betrayed this whole anti-apple shebang thats going on here, it’s about the money innit? If you can’t afford it, you need to come up with nonsensical reasons why apple bad, don’t worry, I used to do that too.
Lmao yessir Ima so poora can’t afford a machine that forces obsolescence every few years, made in a sweatshop, not allowed to repair, made a deal with ARM to kill off competition, walled garden designed, lobbies the governments, takes a picture of you every few seconds, preferred by the CCP machine.
Oh gosh if only I could afford a new machine every 3 years from Apple but it costs approximately $70 per month oh no so expensive ohmagod how can we mere peasants?
Listen dude you’re paying more to save a negligible amount on power, have a battery that lasts slightly longer than the competitors and much longer than anybody will ever need it to, and suffer much worse customer service. And you think its a status symbol or sign of wealth? You got scammed.
Every 3 years? regular laptops maybe last that long, but I am pretty sure macs last a fair bit longer, I was still working on a 2015 model in 2020 without any issue, only reason I stopped is I had to give it back.
I will be using this one for at least 5 years if not longer.
have a battery that lasts slightly longer
slightly doing a bit of heavy fucking lifting there, lmao. try 2x,3x,easily 5x in some cases.
And you think its a status symbol or sign of wealth?
I don’t, not sure where you got that from, I just think most people hating on it do so because they can’t afford it, which seems to be case a lot.
Uh, work? Sometimes I’m in meetings all day in different rooms at my company, and I really don’t like bringing my charger around. So that’s 8 hours, and I’ll be running a lot of stuff in the background, which absolutely drains my battery life.
I also like using my laptop at airports when traveling, and finding a charger can be a royal pain. I’ve had multiple occasions when my laptop battery died and I just couldn’t use it, and I get something like 3 hours battery life (which is pretty decent for a laptop).
I also WFH 3x/week, so it’s not uncommon for me to work from the couch or walk around the house when on boring calls all day.
I’m plugged in most of the time most days, but exceptions do happen, and it’s nice to not have to worry about battery life. I hope this anecdote helps.
I mean, I can and do carry my charger, I just prefer not to. I have needed to leave a meeting to go fetch a charger, as have my coworkers, which is disruptive. Having >8 hours battery life would mean I would never need to think about the battery any more, I could just use the laptop all day and plug it in at night, just like my phone.
Hey man, if you find yourself with a Very Serious Opinion after reading one of these, you should maybe say it out loud in a room by yourself instead of posting it as a comment. This has nothing to do with whether you’re right or not. Nobody wants Serious Opinions underneath their jokes, and you will be much happier when you learn this.
Wow your comprehension on this subject is just profound. Really really clever. Your parents must be so proud. Their little guy, simping for a big powerful corporation.
I don’t care about the corporation, if microsoft was making the M2 microsoft book I would buy that, problem is, nothing in my experience is close enough to the macbooks, I wish it was, I would have loved to save some money.
I will buy framework if they start selling in my country by the time I need a new notebook.
It’s EndeavorOS it’s arch based, with a nice installer, like Manjaro but doesn’t randomly break, although since I have my macbook I don’t have any linux installed per se, I do have unraid running on my PC from a USB stick and I have a windows VM set up through unraid in case I do need it for some stuff (mostly government communication that only works properly on windows)
Also, while I love my macbook, I would have bought framework if it was sold in my country, but it wasn’t and because it was a business expense I need a proper invoice and couldn’t have it shipped through another EU country.
The Apple M-series macbooks are fantastic for battery life and perhaps the best laptop for school or business use you can get. In my office, some rough benchmarks put the Macbook Pro M1 (which is still a couple years old) >4x faster than the 2019 Intel Macbook Pro on running our test suite, and it gets all day battery life, whereas the Intel Macbook Pro dies in like 2 hours. It’s absolutely amazing what Apple has done.
That said, I’ll never buy one. I hate their keyboards and I really want the mouse buttons and TrackPoint on my ThinkPad. I run Linux exclusively (openSUSE Tumbleweed on laptop and desktop), and I really like my workflow on my machines more than my work computer. However, since Apple is UNIX, I can get pretty close (VIM + tmux + some random CLI tools). I’d really like a Framework laptop because Lenovo keeps making their laptops worse (I loved my T440, then upgraded to an E495 because the T495 had soldered RAM, and the new Thinkpads don’t excite me), but I’m not sure I’m ready to give up my middle mouse button and TrackPoint. If Framework could give me the three mouse buttons above the trackpad, I could probably give up the TrackPoint, but I really like those buttons and use them a ton.
I have long hated the “Apple hardware is amazing” nonsense people spouted, but it’s actually true with the M-series macbooks. If you want fantastic battery life, top performance (and are okay with losing game compat), and like or don’t mind the Apple-style keyboards, then I highly recommend them. But if you’re expecting Linux compat or want to play games, look elsewhere.
It’s fine, but it doesn’t solve my main problem with trackpads: I have to move my hand from the keyboard to use it. After using my work mac for almost 4 years now, I still don’t use the trackpad gestures very much, I just find keyboard shortcuts to be better, and I prefer the crappier trackpad on my ThinkPad that has mouse buttons and a TrackPoint.
yeah no the overlap between macos users and linux users is uh, low. It’s about the same as windows/linux users. And thats mostly because linux is their main operating system lol.
If you wanted this, you don’t need a dam apple laptop, but at the same time, the closest competitor is the new snapdragon laptops that are closer to having up to a week of battery life. Also, they are capable of running more than you can on an apple machine, albeit it is early progress in proper x86 emulation, and more productivity programs are starting to support it.
So, no, you are NOT forced to make a decision to get a MacBook and the price gouging you experience.
Even then, picking a device for your use case is extremely important. I know many people who can survive with lower powered devices as they only use it for web browsing or documents like Excel or Word. Which an apple device would work well for but seriously is complete overkill and overpriced for.
Ha, dude bought a macbook at the end. Scammed twice in one Greentext.
Yeah, now he can work all day on battery instead of having to carry around a charger because the shitty ass laptop is out of battery in 2 hours somehow, depite being much slower than the macbook
I’ve never met an Applesexual before.
I have. My boomer dad.
Never met a peach sexual before
Try hentai sites
Cheerleading for brands is cringe
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Idk if this is a joke but Linux is not a brand.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mark_Institute
Technically, yes it is. It’s a registered trademark at the very least.
Yeah, it’s not a brand man. That’s part of what makes it great. A brand is something created to profit off of, which always ends up worse for the end user. Linux is not there to make profit. It’s whole purpose of existing is to serve the user.
Espousing this cooler-than-thou nonsense about a non-brand is at least as cringe as jocking a brand
deleted by creator
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mark_Institute
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand
It fits the definition of a brand.
From the wiki (emphasis mine): A brand is a name, term, design, symbol or any other feature that distinguishes one seller’s good or service from those of other sellers.
What are they selling? It’s free. It’s not being sold.
They accept donations, do they not?
linux isn’t a brand though, it’s a lifestyle and a religion if you go far enough.
This is honestly one of the most insulting things I’ve ever heard said about Linux users, and it’s so accurate.
its not insulting, just true. The insulting part is assuming that this is a bad thing :)
Stating facts is cheerleading?
Just saying, if you had spent as much on a laptop as you did on a MacBook, you would get a full work days of battery.
It’s the same failure point apple fans have about Android. Yeah there are cheap androids. They suck, but also they cost$100-$200 new. What’s apples offering in that price range?
Realistically with the new apple M-series stuff this is just not the case. The battery life is absolutely nuts. Especially compared to high end Linux laptops.
Source: forced to use apple for work
The new Snapdragon laptops are getting 15h+ of battery life, which is a couple of hours less than the new Macs (macs have bigger batteries) in the same benchmarks. The next gen Ryzen AI 300 Omnibook is said to have 20h+… but why do people want so much out of their battery? I’ve only used laptops for work and I can’t remember being more than a couple of hours at a time outside a dock.
Do any of the Snapdragon laptops not suck? I haven’t used any of them, but I’m looking for:
I’m excited to get a new Macbook Pro next year (our company has a 4-year replacement cycle), mostly for better CPU performance (my coworker’s M1 runs our tests in 1/4 the time vs my Intel Macbook Pro) and battery life (mine frequently dies in meetings), but there’s no way I’m buying one for myself. So I’m looking for an alternative.
I’d really like a Framework, but it doesn’t have physical mouse buttons (very strong preference) or a TrackPoint (I can budge here), and the keyboard layout looks kind of crappy. The best so far seems to be the ThinkPad T14s Gen 6, but I’m really trying to get away from ThinkPad due to their horrendous Motorola bootloader unlock policy (i.e. you agree to never resell your device, and your warranty is void), and if that’s the direction their company is going, I would prefer to avoid them, and it’s kind of expensive (starts at $1275). The rest that I’ve seen seem to have crappy keyboards and no mouse buttons.
I wouldn’t pay the premium to be a beta tester for Qualcomm for the new Snapdragons. They’ll be cheaper, have better drivers and more laptops to choose from in a couple of years.
Ultra long haul flight, plus time spent at the terminal?
What terminals don’t have power outlets easily available? I think even many planes do, although I haven’t paid attention to that because I’ve never needed it.
the battery life of machines with hot swapable batteries is arguably better considering you can hot swap them forever. And with more modern hardware, they’re a lot more power efficient so you could get a ton of work done on a handful of batts
source: i understand how hardware works.
Yeah, but you have to carry batteries around.
I’m not a fan of Apple either, but you have to admit they’ve got the ultra portable laptop figured out.
well i mean aside from the part where the intel laptops were engineered like shit and didn’t work because they couldn’t cool themselves, yeah. And the part where they tried to make the butterfly keyboard, and the part where the accidentally made the display cable too short, and still haven’t put out a repair tab for that one yet.
And the part where they accidentally put the gnd next to 51v causing it to immediately short and kill the entire device if even so much as a little bit of water showed up. The part where they only put USB C on their laptops and never put USB C on their phones, even though the whole point of using USB C was that it’s “one cable”
or the part where the release the ipad pro as a laptop replacement and it’s still not a laptop replacement because they refuse to make the OS anything more usable than a tablet, or the part where the new macbooks are shipped with 8GB of ram at all, for some reason. I don’t what the point of that is. Just ship with 16 minimum.
And the part where the also fucked up hardware crypto so bad they had to disable it permanently killing their crypto speeds, but hey, they’re new to the game, they havent been making their own hardware since… Oh about 2010. Or like that one iphone 6 release they did, where it was a little bendy.
but yeah no it seems like they finally figured out how to make a laptop. I can certainly give them that.
It’s insane. I really want one for that reason, but ThinkPad with a ugreen 145 Watt battery bank gives me 16 hours of use. That’s all waking hours.
It’s hard to justify spending 3x as much on a single laptop just for that kind of battery life.
It’s pretty easy to justify when work is footing the bill.
I’m actually pretty happy with my ~$200 Motorola G32.
Lol, nope, you are deluding yourself.
Look at its main competitor the dell xps,
https://www.reddit.com/r/DellXPS/comments/12kk5to/xps_15_9520_6_month_review_issues/
I have done a full 8 hours of work on my Dell Latitude 5440 before on battery. I put it in bat saver and it lasted me the whole work day.
But I re cognize something: why would I need to do that?
I sat a desk or my couch all day both of which had a convenient outlet. There was no point in doing that all on bat. Yeah it’s impressive to have a crazy long battery life and is why I wanta MacBook for coffee shop coding days, but again, there’s almost guaranteed to be convenient outlets and I own a 145Watt battery bank if needed. Thus my $150 ThinkPad E495 has been reaching 16+ hours of use without needing a wall wart.
Maybe your use case is different but mine where I’m certainly going to be stationary enough to use a plug or a battery bank means I can’t justify the apple tax. Plenty of people have done this calculation hence why Apple still doesn’t have an appreciable enterprise market share let alone a competitive one.
Facts about why you should pay more to an unethical company for a use case that doesn’t exist smells like a sales pitch to me.
Where are you going to work on your computer for 16 hours straight without access to a wall outlet?
Ah yes, unethical company, as opposed to an Ethical company like who? Asus who was just caught overcharging their customers on RMAs?
HP? The most evil printer manufacturer on the planet?
Keep in mind my first choice, Framework did not sell in my country at the time, still might not.
Not having to have battery anxiety is not a sales pitch, it’s just good stuff, if you’d have a software developer job, you could maybe understand
And you also just betrayed this whole anti-apple shebang thats going on here, it’s about the money innit? If you can’t afford it, you need to come up with nonsensical reasons why apple bad, don’t worry, I used to do that too.
Lmao yessir Ima so poora can’t afford a machine that forces obsolescence every few years, made in a sweatshop, not allowed to repair, made a deal with ARM to kill off competition, walled garden designed, lobbies the governments, takes a picture of you every few seconds, preferred by the CCP machine.
Oh gosh if only I could afford a new machine every 3 years from Apple but it costs approximately $70 per month oh no so expensive ohmagod how can we mere peasants?
Listen dude you’re paying more to save a negligible amount on power, have a battery that lasts slightly longer than the competitors and much longer than anybody will ever need it to, and suffer much worse customer service. And you think its a status symbol or sign of wealth? You got scammed.
Every 3 years? regular laptops maybe last that long, but I am pretty sure macs last a fair bit longer, I was still working on a 2015 model in 2020 without any issue, only reason I stopped is I had to give it back.
I will be using this one for at least 5 years if not longer.
slightly doing a bit of heavy fucking lifting there, lmao. try 2x,3x,easily 5x in some cases.
I don’t, not sure where you got that from, I just think most people hating on it do so because they can’t afford it, which seems to be case a lot.
Whatever you need to tell yourself, lol.
TIL that 18 hours is 2x, 3x, or even 5x the 19 hours you get from a 2024 Dell.
Uh, work? Sometimes I’m in meetings all day in different rooms at my company, and I really don’t like bringing my charger around. So that’s 8 hours, and I’ll be running a lot of stuff in the background, which absolutely drains my battery life.
I also like using my laptop at airports when traveling, and finding a charger can be a royal pain. I’ve had multiple occasions when my laptop battery died and I just couldn’t use it, and I get something like 3 hours battery life (which is pretty decent for a laptop).
I also WFH 3x/week, so it’s not uncommon for me to work from the couch or walk around the house when on boring calls all day.
I’m plugged in most of the time most days, but exceptions do happen, and it’s nice to not have to worry about battery life. I hope this anecdote helps.
Oh! Oh ho no, boohoo! Mr. Double-Shift-Back-to-Back isn’t able to carry a charger to use at the 176 outlets in his building.
Sounds like you don’t need a good PC, you need a union.
I mean, I can and do carry my charger, I just prefer not to. I have needed to leave a meeting to go fetch a charger, as have my coworkers, which is disruptive. Having >8 hours battery life would mean I would never need to think about the battery any more, I could just use the laptop all day and plug it in at night, just like my phone.
Oh wow thats so cool, Apple should introduce a way to trade in vital organs to make it more accessible to people of your capacity.
Not cool, just basic useability
Hey man, if you find yourself with a Very Serious Opinion after reading one of these, you should maybe say it out loud in a room by yourself instead of posting it as a comment. This has nothing to do with whether you’re right or not. Nobody wants Serious Opinions underneath their jokes, and you will be much happier when you learn this.
K
Wow your comprehension on this subject is just profound. Really really clever. Your parents must be so proud. Their little guy, simping for a big powerful corporation.
Go read up on the subject
I don’t care about the corporation, if microsoft was making the M2 microsoft book I would buy that, problem is, nothing in my experience is close enough to the macbooks, I wish it was, I would have loved to save some money.
I will buy framework if they start selling in my country by the time I need a new notebook.
https://www.tomsguide.com/computing/laptops/copilot-pcs-are-here-11-snapdragon-x-elite-laptops-you-can-buy-right-now
You’re welcome
word on the street is that you should try linux, it’s pretty good.
Lol, you really think I dont use linux?
statistically, it’s pretty likely that you don’t so… It was a safe bet.
Right, I never hear people singing the praise of apple and then discussing their fave Linux flavor
It’s EndeavorOS it’s arch based, with a nice installer, like Manjaro but doesn’t randomly break, although since I have my macbook I don’t have any linux installed per se, I do have unraid running on my PC from a USB stick and I have a windows VM set up through unraid in case I do need it for some stuff (mostly government communication that only works properly on windows)
Also, while I love my macbook, I would have bought framework if it was sold in my country, but it wasn’t and because it was a business expense I need a proper invoice and couldn’t have it shipped through another EU country.
I’ll help out then.
The Apple M-series macbooks are fantastic for battery life and perhaps the best laptop for school or business use you can get. In my office, some rough benchmarks put the Macbook Pro M1 (which is still a couple years old) >4x faster than the 2019 Intel Macbook Pro on running our test suite, and it gets all day battery life, whereas the Intel Macbook Pro dies in like 2 hours. It’s absolutely amazing what Apple has done.
That said, I’ll never buy one. I hate their keyboards and I really want the mouse buttons and TrackPoint on my ThinkPad. I run Linux exclusively (openSUSE Tumbleweed on laptop and desktop), and I really like my workflow on my machines more than my work computer. However, since Apple is UNIX, I can get pretty close (VIM + tmux + some random CLI tools). I’d really like a Framework laptop because Lenovo keeps making their laptops worse (I loved my T440, then upgraded to an E495 because the T495 had soldered RAM, and the new Thinkpads don’t excite me), but I’m not sure I’m ready to give up my middle mouse button and TrackPoint. If Framework could give me the three mouse buttons above the trackpad, I could probably give up the TrackPoint, but I really like those buttons and use them a ton.
I have long hated the “Apple hardware is amazing” nonsense people spouted, but it’s actually true with the M-series macbooks. If you want fantastic battery life, top performance (and are okay with losing game compat), and like or don’t mind the Apple-style keyboards, then I highly recommend them. But if you’re expecting Linux compat or want to play games, look elsewhere.
Mousepad on the macbook is so much better than anything else, I personally don’t need the buttons
It’s fine, but it doesn’t solve my main problem with trackpads: I have to move my hand from the keyboard to use it. After using my work mac for almost 4 years now, I still don’t use the trackpad gestures very much, I just find keyboard shortcuts to be better, and I prefer the crappier trackpad on my ThinkPad that has mouse buttons and a TrackPoint.
yeah no the overlap between macos users and linux users is uh, low. It’s about the same as windows/linux users. And thats mostly because linux is their main operating system lol.
If you wanted this, you don’t need a dam apple laptop, but at the same time, the closest competitor is the new snapdragon laptops that are closer to having up to a week of battery life. Also, they are capable of running more than you can on an apple machine, albeit it is early progress in proper x86 emulation, and more productivity programs are starting to support it.
So, no, you are NOT forced to make a decision to get a MacBook and the price gouging you experience.
Even then, picking a device for your use case is extremely important. I know many people who can survive with lower powered devices as they only use it for web browsing or documents like Excel or Word. Which an apple device would work well for but seriously is complete overkill and overpriced for.
I can buy what I want mate. But thanks for the unnecessary info dump