Reminder: As the aggressor in an imperialist colonialist war, Russia can end the war at any time, just by returning all its troops to its own territory. The continuation of the war is purely the choice of the extreme right-wing Russian dictator and his cronies, who continue to violently exploit the Russian people.
Exactly. If this were remotely true, it would have been cheaper to just buy the old weapon systems from Ukraine.
Not really, as you argue without respect to the core of the problem, that is, the US is building a geopolitical tool next to Russia’s borders (obviously against Russia). Even if Putin suddenly disappears, another politician will get support from Russia’s elite and probably easy consent from the Russian public to pursue an anti-NATO foreign policy.
Nothing will change until the US will change it’s foreign policy towards Russia and stop meddling with countries bordering with Russia.
Also this does not contradict that Russia is not an oligarchy or Putin is not a dictator, before you call me pro-Putin. Russia can be the aggressor, an “extreme right-wing dictator ship” that attacked Ukraine and at the same time Ukraine was set up like a red flag in front of a bull by the West.
Remember, there is no reason a country like Russia should perceive the US and its vassal states as friendly. They have no way to assume whatever they do with Ukraine or try to do with Belarus is not against them. In fact, the opposite is true, the foreign policy of the US writes that Russia is their enemy and they will allocate so and so much funds to fight it. You think you need to be a right-wing dictator or an ex-KGB agent to grasp that the goal of the west is to subdue your political class or to turn your country into a gas colony for them?
But of course, being a biased lib that thinks the world is built like Lord of the Rings or a comic book, what’s class consciousness to you? You believe that there are ebil people like Putin, that suddenly went crazy and decided to invade Ukraine for no reason than being evil.
Don’t you think if the Russian capitalists are investing so much money into the war because they see Ukraine as a pawn of the US and as a threat? And they will continue fund it if it stays a threat to them, beyond Putin? Nah, they put in billions for the lolz. Because Putin said so.
Even if you believe all of this, it should be obvious that the invasion was an abject failure in contributing towards these goals. There’s more NATO equipment and support around that border now than ever before. There’s even more NATO border incoming that didn’t exist before. Staying, expending more of your people’s lives, public and private capital looks like a really counterproductive thing to do. It’s only making those goals harder to meet longer term.
Even if
What do you mean by even if? Where did I say “therefore the invasion of Ukraine cannot be a failure” or “therefore Russia’s capitalist government will do the best for their people in the long term”? Again, what’s up with all this X and Y cannot be true at the same time.
I mean, who are the winners in a Cold War at all? You say there is a NATO border incoming. Is this a win for the world population, to be closer to a nuclear war? When two blocks of oligarchies exchange punches, I would say one misses the point when they cheer on the blue-yellow one.
Could easily argue that the winner of the Cold War was the US, considering the USSR collapsed through internal strife and balkanization.
Not true. With the USSR went the need to support any social services in the US since there was no alternative ideology anymore, so it was a loss for the working class of the US, which is the majority. It was a rhetorical question, which you didn’t get.
Also btw, the USSR collapsed not because of internal strife and balkanization, that was the result. It collapsed because of the introduction of profit/market economy.
Sure, not because of Chernobyl, the national embarrassment of the failed soviet afghan war, the coup attempt on Gorbachov and the following turmoil causing Moscow to lose influence, followed by many republics declaring independence. but sure, just the profit/market economy
LMAO out of all of this you mention the Chernobyl disaster, which makes me think you learn Soviet history through your Britbong “History” tv series. Maybe next you watch as well a Netflix episode on the Russian Tsar?
Which Soviet leader betrayed the Afghan government and pulled out the military again, led the Socialist Afghanistan to collapse under terrorists?
Which Soviet leader did everything the Americans told him, took IMF loans and put in market elements during an economic stagnation, just like pouring oil into a fire?
Ah, I know, Europeans gave a loud applause after his “performance” and gave that traitor a nobel prize and a passport to live in Germany. You would never admit the bastard caused any of this because you guys suck his D in your history lessons.
followed by many republics declaring independence
you mean re-introduced neofeudalism and cut off partnership with the only country that made sure they have energy, manufacturing and built powerstations, schools and infrastructure with them?
Go ask Moldavia, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Tajikistan, Usbekistan, the Baltics, … how their new independence feels like? Hell, ask Afghans the last time they flew into space?
What do you mean by even if? Where did I say “therefore the invasion of Ukraine cannot be a failure” or “therefore Russia’s capitalist government will do the best for their people in the long term”? Again, what’s up with all this X and Y cannot be true at the same time.
Got it.
You say there is a NATO border incoming. Is this a win for the world population, to be closer to a nuclear war? When two blocks of oligarchies exchange punches, I would say one misses the point when they cheer on the blue-yellow one.
For the world population, maybe. There’s an argument to be made that a weaker militarily and economically Russia is less likely to decide to throw punches and the punches would be weaker. That might be good for the rest of us people of the world. I simply can’t see any stability emerging from the status quo in Russia in the medium term and so I see it as needing mitigation. The economic development didn’t manage to put enough money and control in the hands of average Russians who could tame punch throwing impulses. 😐 The average Russians will be paying either way.
There’s a lot of maybes and mights in there. That’s just my view. That said, a whole lot of Europe was a lot more positively inclined towards Russia before the war.
Russia managed to hold onto Crimea, an important warm water port.
Bro Russia would easily be the wealthiest country in Europe if they weren’t obsessed with being global antagonists. Lmao, they literally say that cringe shit out loud every time they talk about “Anglo Saxons” on Russian media. They know their entire schtick is fucking them over, yet they still do it.
And if the ruling class didn’t keep obscene amounts of wealth from reaching the average Russian.
I feel like you want to have this argument with someone and, sure, go for it, but I feel like you’re painting OP as the average /r/worldnews poster, and that’s a very rude thing to do. For all I know they might agree with you but the hostility isn’t helping.
Sorry if this is a little forward or “tone policing”, it just bugged me.
What in OP’s comment did not seem like reddit r/worldnews level to you? And no, I don’t expect to get a reply nor a discussion with OP, it just appears to me that the top comments are usually simple one-liners, so I thought I elaborate this time on an alternative view and mock their (possible) world view that they put out as some common fact
What in OP’s comment did not seem like reddit r/worldnews level to you?
For starters, they recognized russian people also as exploited victims of the ruling class. Instead of the usual comparing them to orcs or whatever.
I don’t think it’s productive to argue with a version of someone you came up with. There’s a way to make a point about US foreign policy and capital’s role in the war without mocking people.
This is pretty much how Bush & USA justified pre-emptive strikes against non-existent WMDs. Russia don’t need to see their neighbors as friendly instead of neutral, and they definitely don’t need to conquer them just in case.
nice whataboutism.
Doesn’t fit into the definition of whataboutism
What you said was completely unrelated and now you want to debate a different box. Classic western disinformation
This is not a debate, nor was anything I said unrelated. US is as western as it gets and my comment shows contempt towards such actions. The same logic applies to both cases of unjustified per-emptive attacks.
That’s not whataboutism, both are wrong by the exact same standard, in America’s case we should have worked with the international community to ensure Iraq was unable to make progress in WMDs (if that’s what we actually cared about).
In russia’s case they could just be nicer to their neighbors.
If I abuse my wife and she leaves me for someone else, that’s not the fault of the wife or other man, that’s on me.
Bro did you even read the initial comment and my long answer to that? My whole point was that russia, was put into a geopolitical corner and had to react out of material reasons, independent of their leadership. You come up with “be nice to your neighbors” as if the USA doesn’t meddle with their peripheral states and tries to put up bases there. LOL I wish I could see the world as simple as darth vader vs luke skywalker like you do
Russia was put in a geopolitical corner.
By russia.
They attacked Georgia in 2008, they attacked ukraine in 2014.
This is why nobody likes them and everybody wants to see them suffer, this is why so many countries were happy to give ukraine weapons if it meant Russian invaders would die.
Russia is a bully nation, and we get to watch that most beautiful moment, when the bullied stands up and blasts their bully in the face with a himars.
Putin won’t last through the year, the thunder run destroyed his aura of invulnerability, I look forward to watching him do his Nick II impression.
Putin wasn’t ‘put in a position’, he’s the ruler of Russia, he has agency, and now we get to watch the Russian people pay the price for his stupidity.
By russia. They attacked Georgia in 2008, they attacked ukraine in 2014.
Did you read my initial comment? You don’t even reply to anything and just ignore the coup by the US in 2014 and the military training of Ukrainian Neo-nazis the following 8 years, while stating Russia is their #1 enemy. Yes that’s right, the West pumped nationalism and weapons into Ukraine way before 2022.
This is why nobody likes them and everybody wants to see them suffer, this is why so many countries were happy to give Ukraine weapons if it meant Russian invaders would die.
“So many” countries like the G7 told by the US to donate? They are barely 10% of the world population. The US gives weapons to Ukraine because they use them as a stick to punch and weaken Russia, while using Ukrainians as flesh to achieve this. They don’t care what Ukraine will be after the war, the support will only last until the US thinks it weakened Russia enough. If you don’t like Russia, then fight yourself instead of sending them into safe death.
Russia is a bully nation, and we get to watch that most beautiful moment, when the bullied stands up and blasts their bully in the face with a himars.
Bruh they use Himars to shell hospitals and city centers that are still Ukrainian and a good amount of them lives there. The Ukrainian nazis killed probably more civilians of their own than the invaders, and you call that a “beautiful moment”.
Putin won’t last through the year, the thunder run destroyed his aura of invulnerability, I look forward to watching him do his Nick II impression.
I agree, that would be good but not worth a try for hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian lives in exchange, especially if you don’t even know for sure if that will be the outcome. Typical lib, cheering the death of people in general.
Putin wasn’t ‘put in a position’, he’s the ruler of Russia, he has agency, and now we get to watch the Russian people pay the price for his stupidity.
Where do you think Putins power comes from? The oligarchs in Russia fear his force powers like from Darth Vader or what? Also then what is your big plan? You remove him, you run elections like in the 90s again, you get Yelson 2, after ten years you get another Putin 2 that again will resist the West. Did you even read my initial comment? My whole point was that is not the decision of one man because life is not Lord of the Rings, and then you reply by the great man theory, which is based on idealism. Like I said, until the West does not change it foreign policy towards Russia, the Oligarchy of Russia will put up people like Putin up and pursue similar politics.
I am convinced that you are just a racist that thinks Russia has Putin and is evil because of their DNA or something. That’s why you refuse to accept any material analysis of the geopolitics behind and blame it on one leadership.
“And, as Putin said yesterday, one of the tasks was to demilitarise Ukraine. In fact, this task is largely completed. Ukraine is using less and less of its weapons. And more and more it uses the weapons systems that Western countries supply it with.”
Ah, the subtle differences between demilitarization and upgrading to NATO standards.
If his statement had ever anything to do with reality. Probably just feel-good words directed at the domestic audience.
Mission failed successfully! We bombed a lot of “Nazis” and their local weapons capabilities! Pay no attention to the fact that we’ve radicalized an entire generation of brand-new nationalists, strengthened our enemies, and ensured free flow of cutting-edge weaponry into their country while feeding an entire generation of our young men into a meat grinder.
is Putin trying out a new comedy routine? Because I legit laughed when I read that quote.
Can the cowards downvoting the comment I’m responding to and others in this thread respond to this comment? I want to block you guys but you timidly refuse to stick your head out and post your disagreements out in the open.
Fun part of that game was killing tiamat, lord of the dragons.
i suppose he thinks ukraine relying on western nations for weaponry is better than ukraine being able to produce its own (im fairly sure that they still are producing their own so.)
@Spzi Ukraine has been demilitarized of soviet equipment FWIW. Imagine how long it would’ve taken Ukraine to do this had it not been an invasion on its land. Thanks, Putler!
Bonus: Putler has also demilitarized former Warsaw Pact members of Soviet weaponry even further. Can you believe the benefits of it? I’m in tears of joy rn.
Removed by mod
dying on the ground riddled with bullets haha! You see, I have successfully disarmed my opponent, as they are now entirely out of ammo. Mission accomplished!
“We have purposely trained him wrong, as a joke”
“How do you like my nuts to your first style?”
I’m bleeding, making me the victor
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
They are entirely out of their OLD ammo, as you can see i am now being turned into swiss cheese purely from NATO ammo, making me the victor.
This is pretty pathetic for positive spin. It reminds me of Zap Brannigan: “You see, Killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them, until they reached their limit and shutdown. Kif, show them the medal I won.”
This was exactly my though !! That and at the beginning of the war, when russian soldiers didn’t know they went to war, I saw Brannigan saying :
"Surprise is the key of victory !! Surprise !! drop the soldiers on the battlefield
Russia just wants time to restock their ammo and do this again 5-10 years. They’re are increasing artillery production, still building misses, and Shahed drone factory. They don’t want peace they will keep attacking till they get pushed all the way back. The only purpose that drone factory serves is to continue attacking civilians even if a peace deal is formed.
Keeping their options open for an exit strategy. Must be for their domestic consumption
Wait, its over?
No, the Kremlin is sometimes able to say things, that, uh, may conflict with reality.
Tbf, if they lie to their people about the “special military operation” being a success and fuck off out of Ukraine, that would already be a massive improvement over the status quo.
Seriously, Putin. You’re a dictator with a massive propaganda network. Just declare victory and march home, before you continue to get your butts kicked
😂
“Alternative facts”
Нет! Это правда! It says it right in the name!
(/s obviously)
Off you fuck then!
Can you turn me into a sun next?
Did anyone else notice that this is the Kremlin saying this rather than Pootin? Is the Kremlin getting ready to tell poopypants-poopin to sit in the corner? This might be a shift in leadership.
Doubt for a leader like poopy pants theres only 1 way out.
This is probably an example of Synecdoche, where “Kremlin” means “officials of the government”.
Ya hear that Lloyd Austin? Time for another 20 billion
