And no, I don’t mean, the supposed “Playful Bullying” (that will upset me too, same with being teased), or being even lightly prodded.
The other day, I was questioned on whether I “actually am a leftist”, by a friend. After I nervously answered fairly basic questions such as believing in healthcare and collective labor, they weren’t convinced. Ever since that day, I felt like I couldn’t be a leftist, especially since I lost any confidence in my ability to be “better” according to that person’s standards. If I couldn’t satisfy their standards that one time, what would be the point of trying to read theory and trying again? Yes I admit, I haven’t tried to read theory. I have no confidence that I would do it correctly.
So, I was already completely lacking in confidence in actually being a good enough leftist. But after that incident where I was bullied and picked on, even for a few minutes… Something in me gave up trying to keep up with the people on this website. It also made me fear and lose confidence in trying, for fear that I would encounter other “Secret Tests of Character” like that.
I feel as though in terms of personality, I am too quiet, too shy, and I have too little to say or contribute anyways, to feel at home here. It feels as though speaking the loudest and having lots to say is what matters the most here, and that is something I cannot do.
So, given that everyone insists “read theory”, which I haven’t been able to, does this mean I am not at the standards I seem to see here?
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This is the least serious leftist space. You will be just fine here. If you make a bad take, you may get called out on it. But the correct response is to just investigate what they are saying and adjust your views accordingly. That’s all it takes to be a “good” leftist; the only “bad” leftist is someone who refuses to do that navel-gazing, refuses to critically examine their own views.
Thank you, user with a pig shitting on its balls as their profile picture, very cool!
No one reads theory, they just tell people to read theory. One day someone will actually read theory and tell us what the hell we’re all doing here.
Both are true
Everybody thinks they’re the vanguard, nobody thinks they’re the proletariat. We need a whole hell of a lot more of one than the other.
The vanguard is the proletariat. They’re not separate from the masses, but rather the most politically advanced and organized section of it
The first among equals as it were. Let’s put it this way, artists and ditch diggers are equally important in a socialist society but for some reason everyone wants to be artists.
The first among equals as it were.
Wow its literally like Animal Farm 1984
artists and ditch diggers are equally important in a socialist society but for some reason everyone wants to be artists.
Literal anticommunist talking point, to wit:
What are you talking about, man? You seem to be thinking that a vanguard party is a bunch of pointy head intellectuals pushing up their glasses. It’s just the people who are politically aware and actively engaging in organized class struggle. Do you think a ditch digger cannot join or would not be welcomed into a vanguard party?
Read some Mao and free your mind from anticommunist State Department talking points
The whole class has been ignoring the homework? It was all in the syllabus, and I kept reminding you to do the reading!
You all know the final isn’t being graded on a curve, right? It’s covering all of the material from the whole year.
As an admin you’re expected to be part of the vanguard party that cleanses us of our false consciousness.
Aw man, professor sounds mad, if we cant pass this class we’ll be turning linen into coats our whole lives… We need a study montage set to The Distance by Cake! stat!
Lemmygrad is the good class where everyone does the homework.
Hexbear is where the slacker class clowns get placed.
Lemmygrad is the Mike Wazowski and Hexbear is the James P. Sullivan, got it.
All I know is the true value of linen.
It’s an excellent cooling material; even other organics can’t compare
The value of linen is equal to the amount of labor involved in the production and transportation of it. No more, no less.
Socially necessary labor value plus the natural value of the linen, as nature is a source of value as well as labor.
free gifts are free so they’re worth nothing
The true value of linen was the coats we made along the way.
So… They weren’t actually being serious? And were just repeating a phrase all this time!? Another incident of me being Literal Minded…
He’s joking. People definitely read theory. But can I let you in on a little secret? I only read like, the first 40 pages of Capital vol 1, said “oh wow that’s just impossible for me to read right now” and watched a bunch of videos from The Marxist Project so I could grasp the most important concepts. I’ve focused on reading about history instead, because it’s a lot more palatable for me, and I think in most conversations with other people it’s most helpful to know a lot about history and a little about the economic laws that govern history, than to be an expert on those laws but not know enough details about history to make convincing arguments to people. Of course, once I feel more comfortable I’ll give the big book another crack!
I recommend that if you hate capitalism and feel like all this crap is made up BS, you should do something similar to break into leftism. Read something easier and more modern; anything Parenti, Chomsky, Vincent Bevins, etc. then you can complement your understanding of history with a bit of understanding of Marxist theory, you can read a bit of Mao or Stalin, who actually made some very nice essays explaining dialectical materialism and its application. You can look up lectures on Marx, I recommend David Harvey, Michael Hudson, and Richard Wolff. Just take it at your own pace, it’s not like there’s an exam to pass.
I’ve read all three volumes of Capital, and I can confidently say reading it is something you should do eventually, but it would be counter productive to read it without already having a fairly good understanding of most of it’s core concepts and having built up a tolerance for dry, difficult reading. Starting with it is the theory equivalent of trying to read Ulysses as your first novel or playing battletoads as your first videogame.
Also, I’ve talked to people who haven’t read it in its entirety but definetly understand it better than I do.
There is a new translation of it into English that just came out that’s supposed to be a lot easier to understand but I personally haven’t checked it out yet.
Paul Reitter’s recent translation is really good! I think it’s a much more approachable translation for modern readers, and it’s the only translation in English that’s based on that last (4th) German edition of the book.
Having said that, my personal copy of Capital is from 1906 with some beautifully penciled marginalia from the comrade who originally owned it, and I can’t bring myself to replace it or justify buying yet another copy just to loan out or reference corrections that were already penciled in to my copy in the margins.
That is so cool.
Chomsky
I recently picked up the 1986 book Prisoners of the American Dream by Mike Davis because someone posted the first page on twitter. Haven’t read that much of it but based on what I have read it seems like a very approachable book for leftists looking to get into the reading.
Also on Hexbear’s literature comm there’s a post (https://hexbear.net/post/109424) directing one on how to access the ‘Socialist Theory Reading Group’ on the education site Perusall. The weekly reading group portion of that has fallen into disuse but the library has a bunch of archived PDFs that are all readily accessible and can be easily downloaded. For instance there’s three titles I can see from Parenti, two from Chomsky, and The Jarkarta Method by Vincent Bevins.
The Perusall might not be the most user-friendly thing out there for a newbie looking for a beginner’s reading list, but I just wanted to mention it.
A lot of people here have read theory, but also a lot of have not. Both categories will tell you to read theory. The point is more telling people to not argue out of their ass and be knowledgeable.
I’m being a little flip honestly. Ive read 50% of capital (about 500 pages) and haven’t picked it up in months. This shit was written in the late 1800s, it’s not easy to do. I don’t fault anyone who hasn’t read it. There are a lot beginners lists out there to get you stated. But that said, anyone who seriously talks down to you for not having read theory is not a good comrade and could benefit from some self critique.
It’s a gag, a lot here do, but also a lot dont or haven’t but mean to. There’s like…a LOT of books and different viewpoints and stuff it’s a pretty robust subject and so even amongst the avid readers no one has read everything.
Being gatekept on being a leftist is extremely leftist, the more times you’ve been purity tested the more leftist you are. Doesn’t matter if you actually pass those purity tests, mind you, but it means you’ve stuck around long enough to not have given up and succumb to becoming a lib or fash.
As for theory, you can start with listening to Dolly Parton’s seminal “9 to 5” as a primer on communism
Old country is excellent theory
Also there isn’t like an exam for leftism. Being an educated leftist is always better but if you say you’re a comrade, you are to me until proven otherwise and that’s done through actions
You’re saying I bought a whole stack of scantrons for nothing?
I’m sure you can standardized test something with em
No, you won’t be bullied as long as you act in good faith. It’s a good sign that you want to grow and learn and are willing to ask questions.
In my book, you’re a leftist if you want the end of capitalism. The rest of theory is just for learning the how and the why.
For something that’s easier to read, I’d suggest Blackshirts and Reds by Michael Parenti.
Blackshirts and Reds by Michael Parenti.
Cannot recommend a book more. Dead simple. Huge impact. Best bang for buck read imo, especially if you still have lingering apprehension about AES states.
A work like Capital may be a little much to start with and the style is a little old fashioned, but I think you’re underestimating yourself. Reading any sort of non-fiction just means taking it at the pace you are comfortable with. Sometimes you have to look up a word or a phrase, sometimes you have to sleep on something and come back to it with fresh eyes – that’s fine! Understanding isn’t something you get immediately – it comes over time. If you’re still intimidated, maybe try starting with something outside of direct theory. Pick a topic that you’re interested in, and find a book on it. Reading is like any habit, it gets better with practice!
What if the topic is Folktales from Russia and other places? Shouldn’t their short length per tale not be good for practicing reading?
If you’re worried about the length, maybe find a companion to it? Like perhaps, a history of their collection and publication?
Maybe we could help more if the subjects are narrowed down a bit. What were the questions you were asked? There is for sure someone who’s written a good answer and further reading can be worked out from there.
‘having lots to say is what matters the most here, and that is something I cannot do.’
- something you cannot do… YET.
my first year or two of leftism was hanging out in online forums and reading ‘easy’ theory by Chomsky and other similar palatable modern theorists, who aren’t exactly Marxist with a capital M, but have valid critiques of capitalism. Naomi Klein, David Graeber, even Michael Moore.
I’d recommend ‘How The World Works’ by Chomsky. The title makes it clear what it’s about. It’s my go to recommendation to anyone who’s curious. The whole book is taken directly from his radio appearances and the like, so it’s totally conversational and written for maximum digestibility. Each chapter is very short, sometimes even just a page or two iirc. He gets into the big debates, without throwing jargon around.
For me, it was illuminating, and made me pretty angry with the world and the lies I’d been told. This drove me to go further and further. I found what interests me most: imperialism. I’ve spent about 3 years reading about it, and will probably read about it until the day I die. I can’t get enough of it. I’ve even written plays about it. I could talk about it for days on end. And yet three years ago, I probably couldn’t have even put Congo or Venezuela on a map.
All this is to say that it’ll all come to you. And that I think a knowledge of imperialism is the key to unlocking Marxism.
even Michael Moore.
Yeah I read theory (Stupid White Men)
for an American he’s actually quite smart if you ignore the last 10 years of his career
Just learn a handful of quotes and drop them here and there in discussions, no one will notice that you haven’t read theory
20 yards of linen (don’t laugh) fuck kautsky
Did I do it right?
You’re the only leftist on this site.
That can’t be right, because I’m the only leftist on this site.
Marxism-Leninism distilled into its purest form right there.
Marxism-Linenism
@mathemachristian@hexbear.net already linked my basic beginner guide in this thread so I won’t spam it. Instead, I’ll leave you with advice for if you never read theory, as much as I think you should.
Don’t speak on what you haven’t thoroughly investigated. If that is, say, whether or not revolution is required, don’t immediately say yes or no, or even say that you think revolution is required but aren’t sure. This sounds mean, but I promise, this right here will eliminate the vast majority of any real bullying you could come across. You can learn the answers to those questions by reading theory
but also by listening to others.Secondly, browse effort-posts and the News Mega. Just see what people are saying, and try to look up online what you aren’t familiar with.
Third, just have fun in the general megathread and hobby comms like c/games! Those are just comfy and cozy.
We’re all liberals here, so no worries
The important thing is to engage in a continual process of learning and self-education, so that you can engage in correct practice. Liberals don’t have to do this because a. we’re constantly bathed in propaganda that disseminates their worldview and b. they don’t want to change the world in any meaningful way. You can pick up a lot by just hanging out with other leftists here and listening and chatting, but eventually you will want to read theory to better understand why they think the the things they do. Better yet, join an org irl, engage in political education through them and put it into practice.
At the end of the day, leftism isn’t something you are, it’s something you do.
I want to second what propter_hog said, being a leftist is a process. There is always more to learn about the world and the forces that drive it. Keep learning, and develop some healthy skepticism and media literacy with regard to capitalist depictions of socialist countries, and you’re on track.
process
Almost like a dialectic
Yes I admit, I haven’t tried to read theory. I have no confidence that I would do it correctly.
two points. first, the only incorrect way to read theory is to not read it. even if you don’t understand 100% of a book – hell, even if you only understand 25% of a book the first time you read it – you can still get a lot out of it and become a better, more informed leftist. second, theory is only one side of the coin. what makes a good leftist is a combination of theory and praxis that inform each other, so if you’re still really that worried about not being able to read theory, getting out and actually contributing to a leftist cause will both help you feel like you’re a Good Leftist and make reading theory more approachable, bc praxis informs theory and vice versa
Death to America
Your ‘friend’ sounds like an arsehole tbh
You’re here to learn, you won’t get bullied. Generally when someone gets dumped on massively it’s cause they came in combative and arrogant and remained so in the face of people replying with paragraphs of well written and educational rebuttals with links, if the other person proceeds to double down it’s open season. This us a very comfy place to be otherwise. You’re approaching with probably more humility than we’d expect let alone see often, so you’re fine.
Welcome! We have a LOT of emojis and an account everyone can use if they want to pretend they’re a dog!
Ooh! We also have a community account for pretending to be a cat! Thus proving we’re a left-unity space.
Well don’t be afraid to ask questions if you got them and if anyone chooses to behave like a little shit, report them to get swatted on the nose with a newspaper roll.
