Huh, weird. The menfolk have had kind of a loneliness problem for about 15 years…
The last bit is what killed world of Warcraft for me. When it changed from a world with the same people in it everytime, to automated group finders combining every possible world anyone could be in.
Not only will you never see those people again, for a while it was literally impossible to talk to them or friend them.
When they put out classic wow again, they updated it to have all these “new quality of life” features.
Thank god for private servers.
There’s some rose-tinted goblin welding goggles there.
Pugs for 5-mans used to be a huge pain in the ass. Especially for lower-level dungeons or for DPS classes (and especially the boomkins, the fury warriors, and the ret pallys).
Remember spamming city chat, LFG BFD?
And if you were a warlock, you were expected to run all the way there (remember not getting mounts until 40?), and wait for two other people, so you could summon the last two?
I haven’t really played much since TBC, or at all since LK. LFG was a huge improvement. It had flaws, for sure…it did break the community a bit, as you said…but it made the game playable for people who didn’t have hours to commit to getting ready for a 5 man dungeon.
Yeah I don’t miss the days of trying to get a group to do Scarlet Monestary then running the gauntlet of griefing assholes.
SM was the worst for it.
And there were so many quests.
And there was so much lore inside.
But if you were an alliance player on a PvP realm you were guaranteed to get ganked waiting for the rest of your party to show.
As a solo player in the early wow era, lfg was a massive pain in my backside. I literally couldn’t progress without completing certain dungeons, and I couldn’t complete those dungeons unless I grouped up. So I was painfully and perpetually stuck in a never ending loop of LFG.
It’s the reason I left.
If you don’t have a group to play with, or preferred to play solo, utilizing pick up groups when necessary, the game became an unplayable mess halfway through the level progressions.
They’ve “fixed” most of this now, but I have a hard time caring about the game now. I went back to it for a short while a few years ago, and while it’s easier to nab a group for progression, the onslaught of go-fer quests numbed my brain to any lore that was being spouted by the quest givers, and it became a grind fest.
No sorry, just action.
ESPECIALLY when things like the DPS Priest build was the best for leveling but the HEALING Priest is the one everyone needed for dungeons.
Oh as a shadow priest in TBC you hit me right in the feels.
Shadow was so great for levelling but shit for healing. And holy was great for healing but shit for solo play.
Towards the end of TBC I was doing disc and having a blast as a squishy healer in PvP.
To be fair thats sort of the point of RPGs, people fill different roles but not all roles.
Yeah…wish they would’ve come out with dual specs earlier. Would’ve made leveling my priest much more fun…a holy priest was a slow and boring process in solo PvE but a shadow priest was boring in dungeons. And I liked doing both.
I think the punishment for changing specs was just unbalanced. In vanilla it was an absurd amount of gold. We had funds for our healers and tanks, and many of them just played alts outside of raids.
Something about the difficulty of it all I think breeds companionship. Whatever we have now is pretty broken.
Everybody has different experiences. For me the game was okay but it was secondary to the friends that I met and played with. That shitty LFG experience pushed people to make and join guilds.
There’s definitely a way works both ways.
Yup and if you were on a low pop server or mature one with not many leveling. Forget doing dungeons at all.
DF and RF have their issues but it wasn’t all fun before.
As a feral who needed random blues, I spent days trying to get groups for less popular dungeons, just to have the item not drop or get ninja’d
WoW FEELS super fragmented right now.
I mean, when they finally gave in and released Classic I had no idea they would release 10 different versions of it. But that’s mostly a different topic.
The shattered world of the main game is the big problem, cities and raids and events that exist only conditionally, like Undercity and Ny’Alotha with the attatched invasion.
Being able to meet and talk with players you can’t trade with or craft for, whether they’re Horde while you’re Alliance, or they’re from an unconnected server to yours. When you tell the latter they can send you a personal crafting order for the sword they keep asking for in Trade Chat, they can’t.
And as a Blacksmith/Miner main, I get to experience the shattered state of instanced zoning more regularly, every time I fly out to get ore, with several ore deposits simply disappearing as I approach them or start mining them. I see them from the other side of a fracture in the world. When I cross over, the illusion fades away.
I haven’t logged on to WoW in a few years, but it’s really interesting to hear what’s become of instance handling. I was on the fence about it in '03-'04, when the discussion was about whether or not instanced dungeons (Lost Dungeons of Norrath for EQ) were a good idea long-term. At the time the discussion sounded a lot the discussions about fast travel. Or maps, for that matter.
Game companies have definitely done their best to try and make multiplayer gaming more and more lonely. I settled in quick to single player cause at least I could have fun and not simultaneously be lonely and dominated by some hyper competitive toxic game matched tryharding BS.
Team fortress 2
Don’t be silly, if you want to get dominated by another random person in tf2 then you need to first buy bot immunity
What. Haven’t seen a single bot since a few of hosters were imprisoned and fined gigantic sums.
I haven’t seen any bots for 2 years now. I no longer play on casual servers. Community servers are more featureful and more fun.
Yes i have a community server that fits the top half of the green text,
24/7 Quick spawn dustbowl(with teams that are balanced 😅) is p much the best fun i have when gaming
Lol I don’t follow the situation very closely, I’m just lamenting the state of modern gaming
As other posters have mentioned, at least for about a year now the bot crisis is pretty much over :)
Or at least its rare to find cheater/bots, i more often join dead lobbies over bot lobbies (which a quick reque fixes)
Pretty solid. Explains why i stopped liking online-games which i was so damn passionate about 20yrs ago.
Beside being unable to compete with the youngsters 😁
For me other than the lack of time it’s the toxicity, if you have say one hour to play, do you really want to listen to some no-life cunt who has been playing all day screaming at you because they are tilted as fuck and need to blame everyone else but themselves? Well I certainly don’t need that shit in my life.
Oh right… I totally forgot about the toxicity. That also was very different “back then”. Even though we weren’t much less anonymous. Being decent and honourable just meant something.
We even played in a league with one player who sucked major ass and brought us down. But she had so much fun and that’s what counted. Noone cared. Winning was great, but having fun and having a fair competition was greater.
Honestly there second someone starts talking during a game I just go and mute them. 99.9% of the time it’s really annoying. Once in a while you get someone who actually knows what they’re doing and talking about, isn’t a dick, and actually gives good advice or help. But that happens so rarely it’s not worth it
Adding a bit of an anecdote, I’m not good at games but when someone (be it friend or foe) is leagues worse than me I give them advice
For example I’ve been getting back into planetside and this level 7 was trying to kill me as an infantry unit with a rocket launcher (anti tank weapon, can’t one shot infantry) so even with my crappy aim I dispatch him without so much as a nick to my shields. So I send him a direct message that the rocket launcher is for tanks and he should use his LMG for infantry battle
Basically help your newbies
How is Planetside in 2024? I never was really good at it, but I liked the coordination or when a full platoon was assembled and dropped on a hot spot.
I’ve been playing for about a few days since I stopped playing about a year ago and it’s decent
I have a few alright fights and some good ones, standard planetside stuff. If you ever wanna hit me up here’s my abomination of a name and flop is spelled with a zero not an O if your on Connery (us west)
Thanks for the info. I will save that comment and hit you up if I decide to start again.
I don’t listen to any cunts in online games, voice chat is off. For some reason the kids these days think you can’t play a game without a headset and mic on. I don’t even own one of those dumbass headsets. I can still be competitive in FPS games without any of that too.
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I remember playing TacOps back in the day. Some Sundays were literally just me team speaking with the guys (and some girls) while sipping a beer and casually playing our doing team practice. I learned a lot about the different international cultures before I set my own feet out of the country.
You can still still be competitive, you just have to be a bit clever about it.
I recently started playing mobile shooters… in an Android emulator with a mouse and keyboard. Destroying touchscreen kiddos with a proper input device never gets boring.
Some games are even smart enough to detect the mouse and keyboard and only match you with other players using external input devices, like CoD Mobile. That’s one of my favorites because it’s basically CoD: Greatest Hits. All the best maps from the old games are there. And new modes come out every week. It’s so much better than modern CoD; takes me back to the days of playing CoD4 and MWII on the Xbox 360 when I was a teenager.
You know it’s not really competition when you give yourself a massive advantage, right?
You know that you’re a grownup cheating to beat children, right?
You know that’s sadder than playing a fair game and losing, right?
Right?
You know that what I’m doing is not only allowed by the CoD Mobile developers, but they even made an official emulator for this very purpose? Google “Gameloop”.
Regardless, I play games to have fun; so knock it off with the guilt tripping. The players know that I’m using a mouse and keyboard. They don’t know how old I am because in-game mic usage is rare these days. I’m playing within the rules. Not my fault that they’re using the touchscreen or plugged in a controller instead of a mouse.
If it bothers you so much, then just stick to ranked and you’ll only get matched with other mouse and keyboard players. But again, I don’t give a fuck because I’m having fun again, just like I used to when I was young. Mobile gaming in an emulator rekindled my interest in gaming overall.
Gonna have to disagree on this. Input parity is a big issue for multiplayer games.
Look at Apex, roller players complain about m&k being able to do certain movement tech, m&k players complain about the ridiculous aim assist on roller. People sometimes cheat by using the roller to have aim assist, while using macros to achieve certain movement tech.
Touchscreen vs m&k isnt even close to roller vs m&k. It’s really only fun for the person who has that advantage at that point. You essentially make it so that you get to have fun while everyone else doesn’t. Sure, it might allowed by the devs, doesn’t make it any less fun to play against.
To your point on ranked, not everyone wants to play that. Sometimes they just want to turn on their phone for a quick match.
Controller has gotten a lot better. I have friends on console that come play on PC with their controllers and destroy every lobby. There are people who play in FPs tournaments with controllers. With gyro aiming you can do anything a mouse player can do.
I don’t even want to be competitive, but stat tracking forces the issue. When you found a regular hangout place for a some team based game, you didn’t need to worry about tracking every kill. You could just be helpful to your team in ways that K/D ratios can’t track like throwing yourself at the opposite team when they’re chasing your team member who has the flag for instance. Just not being a ragging asshole could get you a positive reputation.
Oh yes. We never gave a rats ass about k/d. Defending a flag numerous times and ending up with 5/100 was a big win. Oh man i really miss those times. Except the dialup and crt and that shit…
Winning this way wouldn’t give me something. It’s like fighting unarmed babies in full gear No judging here. As long as it’s allowed.
Being accused of being a cheater (while ypu aren’t) or people dropping the server when you show up, that’s fun 😁
This is why I always drop solo and ignore my team in apex legends. I also disconnect as soon as I die.
Lmao. Been on both sides of this.
Great, the loss of community now extends to video games as well
You ate being isolated so no one will miss you when the government/corporations/they/whoever get you
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“but my community used to be made out of 12 people!”
Well too bad. That’s why you’re here on Lemmy now. You dislike strangers and love familiarity. I on the other hand love strangers and chaos. That’s why I was on Reddit.
I mean, we can have both. Community servers and official matchmaking servers.
But for the sake of money, community servers are gone.
Enshittification is very real, but also, some games just aren’t feasible as community servers. Lol?
Which aren’t? League could be fun of there weren’t a ladder and competition being the only thing people care about. You could do fun things like Aram but like, all sonas or shacos. Something wacky. Oops all fiddlesticks. Any shooter is going to work for community shooters, mods and CS proved that… Shit even MMOs have private servers with tweaked rules .
There are some. For example extraction shooters kinda lose a core aspect of its genre because the player interactions are built on the idea that you don’t know who the other groups in the server are. Are they hostile? Are they friendly? Will they stab me in the back or help me out? How many are in a group? Technically it would be possible to set up community servers (if you had access to the server software) but if your community plays on the same server you kinda lose that uncertainty of who you’re going to meet, because you know the people you’re playing with.
Another one IMO that benefit from matchmaking are 1v1 games. Chess or fighting games or anything of the sorts. Community servers would be moot because you can only have 2 people in a match. You could probably build a tournament style community server but it wouldn’t add much value. I think matchmaking makes much more sense there.
There might be more but I think that list will be relatively short and in general most games would probably benefit more from having community servers.
My point is mobas aren’t really that feasible with community servers, are they?
There’s still a bunch of customs. Most are private.
I really don’t understand what one sees bad with a central server, because the function those community servers served is now served by discord servers, basically, to which you can go to find gaming company at the drop of a hat. But there’s not the same limitation of “oh we’re not on the same server”, except for ofc zones which still exist, America, Europe, Asia, etc.
Oh “even mmos”? Those have existed since I can remember. And I started online in about 2003.
Why’d you’d want a private server for League for example?
This is everything I meant to convey with my “lol?” but I realised it wouldn’t be conveyed and still did it because I was too lazy to write this
How can you question if you are laughing out loud? What does it even mean?
I, too, read it as such.
Leagues of legends is a game.
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That’s because humans are trash. Trolls will do anything to destroy an actual conversation.
As someone leveling in anniversary wow through Barrens right now. It earned its reputation and a self fulfilling one, people shit in chat there all day just to try and one up each other.
Edit: leaving “shit” it fits in this case…
Why wouldn’t it be? You can already make custom games with pretty much anyone.
Yeah, custom lobbies on a central server. Which is what I think is superior to community servers.
And I don’t think so, like many other people expressed in this thread.
The biggest advantage of self-hosting is that the game will be forever playable even if the company that makes the game goes belly up.
I remember all the hilarious impersonations I would do in Black Ops 2 on PSN. Everyone would be cutting up.
good times
…now everyone is in private parties
For years I had thought I got old and don’t have friends who play games as much anymore but this meme made me realize it’s that I wasn’t making new gaming friends.
That first bit is a pretty accurate description of a lot of early online gaming.
That was a big pull of WoW. You type “lfg” once in all chat and that could send you on a 20 year relationship with a guild with people who end up becoming your best friends.
I knew most of the experienced bards on my EQ server in '03. Half the reason I bothered to develop my character was to try and keep up with them. Now pretty much the only thing that’ll keep me playing online multiplayer is casino gamification, so I don’t start.
long live (classic) EQ :)
yup, sounds like my experience playing Unreal 2:XMP back in the day
Definitely describes my early Team Fortress Classic/TF2 time back in college. I’m actually still steam friends with folks from that time and I definitely still rock my “clan tag”! Sort of lame if kids don’t have a chance at the same thing…
kids are missing out on a lot simply because the number of PCs in private households has shrunk by ca. 90% - consoles just don’t give the same gaming experience / definitely not the sense of immersion.
That’s a huge bummer - didn’t realize the numbers were that high.
Having a PC in my house in the 90s with games led me to learn about computers… to play better games. Which has absolutely contributed to my having a successful career.
Glad I’m putting together a Linux box for my oldest to wreck/play with!
It’s a guess by me, but honestly I think it’s quite accurate - then again I just checked some statistics and those absolutely does not confirm my guess - however most unfortunately mix PCs and laptops (which are not the same in terms of how you learn with them, imo) and oftentimes even tablets (which are completely useless to learn anything about computers). The actual numbers as per the first statistic I found say that households with PCs are down from ca. 65% in the early 2000s to ca 43% in the 2022.
Thinking about it, that might actually be true, but I don’t think that anywhere close to 40% of children get exposure to computers & spend way too much time on mobile devices.
Glad I’m putting together a Linux box for my oldest to wreck/play with!
And that is absolutely the best you can offer them to find out if they have an interest in / a talent for anything IT. And playing games is a good motivator to try and start figuring out problems.
I’m playing a mobile game that’s pretty much exactly like that first part.
Man I should boot up TF2 again
nice observation by anon.
i miss making friends in games and couldnt quite put my finger on why matchmaking was much worse and unfun than old multiplayer and this is it.
They’ve abstracted away the social element. It takes so much work now to make a friend. After a game ends there’s perhaps a summary screen or lobby, so you can add another player to your friends list, but you have no way of discussing that with them. Anytime I get a friend request, I think, who is this? Why are they friending me
Half the time a friend request comes just so someone can continue to flame you after the match is over
I see you play League of Legends
I wish this behavior was limited to a single playerbase. I haven’t played league in a million years and this still happens sometimes
Can’t we all just get along? We’re here to play games darn it
flame
Oh, is that still a thing people say? Been a long time since I remember seeing it.
Well sure, old people do
i tried just adding random people and once some japanese guy accepted and would play with me for a few days and speak words i did not understand
One of the cool things about lobbies in VR is fist bumping to make friends, it’s a beautiful mechanic
…what game is that
Population One, and a few others I think
we have successfully urbanized online games. the days of a small town feeling in new online games are over
I don’t think urbanised is a good word to describe that alienation. The urbanism movement has as one of its key goals the creation of more vibrant local communities. It’s more like suburbanism.
what i meant by “urbanized” is that these days, playing online games feels like living in a big city where there are a ton of people but it’s hard to feel like you know everyone. you can still make a group of friends and find “local communities”, but i think that’s distinctly different from the feeling of a small town where you know a lot of the people there.
all that being said, there are advantages to living in a big city instead of a small town. in this context, that would look like faster matchmaking times, making it easier to find a full server, etc. but i still wish games gave you the option of picking a community server. i miss having the option of joining custom servers and getting to know the locals.
IMO games should support picking a community server if only for archival purposes once the official servers are taken offline.
The urbanism movement exists to help remedy some of the downsides of urban living. One of which is social alienation and isolation as a result of the scale and diversity of cities.
No, it exists to fix the problems caused by car-dependent suburbia. Inner cities can have problems too, but a lot of those are created by cities wanting to support suburban commuters rather than the local community.
Suburbia came into being as a result of urban dysfunction. Cities have existed and had problems since long before cars were invented. People nowadays really love to blame everything on cars lmao, if only it were that simple
Cities were literally demolished to run highways through them, cutting right through vibrant communities to do so. Auto companies lobbied governments and ran public relations campaigns to change the law and societal mores to make car-centric infrastructure and norms the only way things are done. Ripping up public transport, inventing the concept of “jaywalking” (itself just a form of car-centric victim blaming), and banning the building of more people-friendly communities through strict Euclidean zoning.
Did you forget to respond to my point? Are you suggesting that cities were happy, egalitarian communes prior to the invention of the automobile? Slums and tenement housing would seem to indicate otherwise.
Highways were constructed because it provided an economic advantage to do so. A city without car infrastructure is not economically viable. With more advanced transportation and communication technology, we will eventually supercede the automobile, but to delude yourself into thinking that it was an arbitrary development is silly. There are many negative externalities caused by automobiles, just as there are many negative externalities caused by electricity. That doesn’t negate the advantages.
But regardless, the social dynamics of cities predate such problems; even if we reverted to a pre-car culture cities would still be lonely, violent places for some. They would still be the engines of inequality and hierarchy, because they are the hubs of the economic system.
Did you forget to respond to my point?
You seem to be having your own entire argument completely divorced from what I said to start this off. Which is very simple: that city living is not at all at odds with strong communities, and that the biggest thing that hurts local community feeling is car-dependent infrastructure. Because people driving kilometres away to big megastores where they load their groceries into a car and drive home, and have their leisure time at home in large private yards, with few of the local stores, cafes, parks, and other community spaces where people might randomly meet others in their local community, is what causes the alienation the parent comment seemed to be alluding to.
Lmao started reading not loving yr usage of urbanized (still probs not the best term…), however you really are outlining much of what was so classist, and very much racist, about city development. I wouldnt justify the guy you’re replying to with a reply
This was dota in 2008 basically.
Now I’m sad.
Nostalgia might be pushing a bit hard here. Even playing obsessively on relatively small games on a limited number of servers for hours every day, I never got to recognize people just by being there. Occasionally someone would friend you, but otherwise, you knew people for 4-5 rounds at a time, and then never saw them again. Internet, even back then, was a big place.
Idk that was pretty frequent for me on TF2 community servers
I had basically one TF2 server I would play on because that’s the one I knew the people. It was like the community basketball hoop. If people weren’t playing then sometimes I would text a friend and try to get a game going or more often than not just try again later. It felt natural and low-stakes. This meme hits hard.
Hell, it still is pretty frequent for me to see a couple regulars on the TF2 servers i play on
It was pretty regular for me. You find a server and usually the people hosting were usually always in there. Especially if it was a clan. That’s how I got into ever clan I ever joined.
You join a server and get to know the usuals and become friends. Still play with people I met back with the OG call of duty came out. We still play games together today. Never met half of em in real life.
Naaah. I made like 40 longtime steam friends because of playing on the same gmod server. Was lucky to find a server that had the most insane creators on it. You went onto any other server, they used what we made on that one. Drunk Combine, tanks, jets (including working VTOL), we had artillery that worked the same way it did in World of Tanks. 95% of the players there were insane at Expression 2 - which was a scripting / programming language that let you interact with the physics of the game in awesome ways.
I put the best 750hrs of my life into that server. It was called “Unsmart’s” after the dude that hosted it. Closed down after a few years when the people moved onto other games. There was a shortlived revival, but it was more of a “reunion” than anything else. Still have everyone as friends and could probably get them together by pinging the group if I wanted to.
Well the post is 6 years old so it’s actually referencingthe internet 21 years ago. This kind of thing did happen back then. I’m remembering Halo 1 pc servers and recognizing names.
Online gaming in 2004 indeed had much less people available overall. On the FPS front, it was mostly Counter Strike and Battlefield 1942 I guess.
For me it was counter strike and day of defeat. Guess I was fully on the valve train.
When is “back then” for you?
I played counter-strike during the beta days and team fortress when it was “classic” not “2”
I definitely had a handful of favourite servers (1-2 favourites, 2-3 backups) that I would play on and knew the regulars like an old country pub.
Now things are set up so that it’s almost impossible to develop relationships with random folks online. Not just matchmaking but also more closed-off (hard to discover) groups on Discord etc…
CS1.6 and TFC was the golden age of online gaming and it’s been downhill since then. Literally nothing has been improved upon and the community has become immeasurably more toxic.
We’ve lost IRC and dedicated servers and replaced it with matchmaking and Discord. Both objectively worse.
Mid-late 2000s. Roughly 2005-2012.
Yeah…that was the end times.
This absolutely happened to me in Battlefield 1942.
Yeah, the early BF games were where I found servers that were communities. We’d even host events like stunt flying or trick shot challenges where we’d throw a pssword on the server for a few hours so nobody could troll us.
Or for certain days of the week, we’d be running the Desert Combat mod. It was a different time in online gaming.
Another thing I miss from those days is friendly fire. I get why it had to be removed, but it allowed for big, overpowered thing like artillery strikes and naval bombardment that were as likely to wipe your own team as help without coordination.
Oh man. Desert Combat was incredible.
I love that they basically just hired the Desert Vombat team to make BF2.
Though the AC 130 in Desert Combat is still my favorite game vehicle of all time.
Mobile, pilot-able spawn point for the entire team with awesome air-to-ground weaponry that had to be defended by fighters.
It could fly over an emeny base and rain troops and death, but if it got shot down or the pilot wasn’t amazing, it was a huge liability.
I also actively remember seeing someone from the same “clan” as you in a random free for all or capture the flag game. Always a great feeling.
My dad (would be 71 if he were still alive) used to play an online flight simulator WW2 game back in the late 90s / 2000s until he passed in 2012. He made a bunch of online friends through that game who he’d have long phone convos with outside of the game. My mom had to call them up to let them know he passed. I think he might of met a couple in person over the years too.
I was never a gamer, although during covid I put an emulator on my Mac so I can play PS2 and N64 games. Last night for the first time in a long time I played THPS2 on my Mac. I’ve beat the game multiple times but it’s just fun to play. Never got into online gaming.
