Listen. I just don’t like that they replaced glass with TV screens that show what’s behind
They fucking what now?
They replaced glass with screens that show what they think the product is.
In stores run by the particularly stupid.
The screens are there to play ads sometimes, and if you get there while an ad is playing, you either have to know the store and remember which screen the thing you want is behind, or you have to wait until the ad is over. Or you can go open every door until you find what you want. I prefer the latter because it makes the company have to pay more to cool their drinks.
If enough people do it enough, maybe it’ll negate the advertising profits.
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You’re probably joking but just to save people some time, it does not actually recommend HTMX. (I remembered seeing this website a while back but didn’t recall anything about HTMX so had to check.)
I thought HTMX was a joke, but they’re serious.
I am serious
and don’t call me Shirley.
C’mon, what’s not to like about bonding every UI action against a remote server? What’s a few milliseconds anyway? I’m sure it works fine over cellular networks. I mean, it works great on my dev machine! /s
What kind of you UI action are you talking about? Most of the time you need data from the server and if you want have some animations with css it will be client side anyway also it’s not like you cannot write JS. I mean downloading thousands of lines of js for some web framework over cellular does not sound better tbh.
That’s a strawman. I don’t need 1000s of lines of JS to swap a UI. I can do it in 1 line with Web Components:
oldElement.replaceWith(newElement). And those modules can be lazy loaded like anything else.This is just DX in name of UX, which is almost never a good idea.
And maybe you’re fine with throwing a server computation for every single UI change, but I’m not made of money and I much rather have stuff on a CDN.
I think i missunderstood you I thought you were arguing for modern web frameworks. Nothing wrong with replacing elments with js and not sending it as a request to a server I would do the same for stuff that doesn’t need data from the server. If you are really worried about latency you could throw your code in a cloudflare worker but I don’t think it matters that much average loading time of websites on desktop is 2.5 seconds . So it doesn’t really matter if the server is on the other site of the world latency will not be the biggest factor.
Svelte my man, I barely have to read the docs, just guess how things should be done because that’s how it would work in vanilla JS, and most often it just works.
Svelte is very good. If I had to use a frontend framework I would either pick svelte or soldijs both are great.
svelte or soldijs both are great
What would you say is the most important difference between the two? I feel like I should dip my toes into Svelte, but I haven’t had a reason yet
Svelte is for if you hate React and like vanilla JavaScript. Solid or Next is if you like React.
And what if I hate both?
HTMX I guess, lol
Never used React, I went straight to Solid, but I quite like vanilla, I mean, you’ll always be using “vanilla” in some form or another
Been a react dev for about 4 years now, I’ve heard good things about Svelte. But like from a career perspective would it be worth the switch now?
It’s good to play around with different frameworks from time to time, even if it’s just to form an initial opinion on. I’ve been programming for 15+ years and the only constant is learning new things.
From a career perspective using it enough to know whether you’d like to or be willing to work with it in the future is probably enough. Then when you’re looking you know whether you want to apply for jobs focused on it.
On that topic I’ve been on the market and haven’t seen Svelte mentioned a single time when searching, granted I’ve probably only looked at a couple hundred listings (most being WFH).
From a career perspective, think of languages and frameworks as tools. Knowing how to work with more tools broadens your horizon about what you can achieve and how efficiently. Sure, you can specialize on certain tools, but these come and go.
Svelte is the way to go
I personally don’t like the htmx style of coding. It often feels like having to explain what I want to do to someone else using only a limited set of custom words, instead of just doing it myself.
I understand you but for me it’s the opposite I am not bound to using js for everything and can just return html from the server like I want. Also everything else still works I can write js if I want to. Htmx gives me more words I can use in html not less. Also I can manage the state via the url and the server. In other frameworks I often had the problem that I was writing the same logic twice in backend and frontend.
Exactly. Not everything needs to be a goddamn SPA!
I just peeked at the docs and right off the bat I don’t like how they have conflicting attributes like hx-get and hx-post. What happens if both are set at the same time? Why not just have hx-method?
Reject Web technologies - embrace native mobile app development
Compose feels like React but without the bad JavaScript parts, really pleasant experience!
Ah, yes, let’s have thousands of specialized apps, each with uniquely expiring dependencies and vulnerabilities, instead of one browser that can work with apps that are standardized for OSS, UI, accessibility, performance, inspection by humans and machines, and security.
Funnily enough, I’ve found JavaScript to be by far the worst offender for expiring dependencies and vulnerabilities.
How are you supposed to develop web applications then?
That’s the neat part - you don’t.
I love Compose, creating UI is actually fun. The whole ViewModel thing though I don’t love
I love Compose, creating UI is actually fun.
It’s a good time, for sure. That being said, I’ve stopped working with UI, and I don’t really miss it. I still do some side projects in Compose though, and it’s always way better than XML.
The whole ViewModel thing though I don’t love
When it clicks, it’s actually not that bad imo. I think the main problem is that Google aren’t really explicit enough about how to leverage them effectively, and as such they can be pretty hard to get right.
I’m good with my Vue, thanks. I hate React though. I can see htmx simplifying some things and being adopted by front-end frameworks. The same way improvements in HTML and CSS have been adopted.
Fellow Vue enjoyer! I love Vue, it’s so friendly. Maintaining a complex React app feels like getting dragged behind a truck down a one way road.
(Did you like my two way data binding joke there?)
Hello sane friend! You used your joke to great effect!
Did you like my useEffect joke haha
Vue and AlpineJS for me.
When you say “and”, do you mean together?
I love Vue, first time I’ve heard of AlpineJS. From my quick searching, they seem pretty similar. What advantages does one have over the other? Thanks :)
Ah, sorry, that was a bit confusing on my part. I use them entirely separate. Here are some real world examples:
Vue: new projects that will require multiple components, state management, etc.
AlpineJS: when I have a tiny project/demo that needs reactivity, or if I have an existing HTML setup that needs state management and reactivity bolted on after the fact (like an old site or something like that).
Any svelte enjoyers
There’s quite a few of us :) Looking forward to Svelte 5.
sveltekit: this is the way
Yes.
I love HTMX ❤️
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If you know HTML and Python already I would recommend going for something like jinja2 + flask or fastapi and try some htmx stuff no need to use everything you can just refresh the site at the beginning. This should be pretty beginner friendly. It really depends on what you want to do. I don’t know much about Hugo or Publii. If you want to make an interactive website and not just a blog or static website I would advise you against using either of the two. If you want to get a job in frontend webdev I would advise you to learn javascript (https://javascript.info/) and some framwork like react also learn tailwind or css.
I’ll check those out and see if I can get a good workflow going for it.
I wanted my first web project to be a static site since I really only need a blog at this point in time. The use case for my blog really would be to write about chemistry and chemical engineering stuff I think is cool. Having a worksheet repository for my students as well that they could access with some encryption so the access is restricted. I’d love to try the fancy stuff on websites, I just need to get the poison of “JavaScript is spyware” out of my head.
It’s pretty disorienting to figure out the “right” way of learning web development after the loads of slander I’ve seen in memes. Im sure youve seen the same about React, JavaScript, and something about “NodeJS”. I wasn’t really too aware of software other than doing calculations on data collected from DAQs. Any resources you’d recommend to check out?
I guess I should ask the question, what exactly is all the fuss about surrounding some of the frameworks? I definitely can see the argument about adding more layers of abstraction can obfuscate the underlying mechanisms of the codes thus increasing the amount of potential vulnerabilities. Particular companies and developers turning evil is also. But some of the rhetoric becomes “They’ll put a miner for your crypto” “They’ll siphon every facet of information about you”. The most bizarre I read was how to figure out the outline of 3D objects surrounding the user via the pattern in white noise detected by an interference pattern.
Histrionics aside, is there a good resource that I can read that dismisses common falsehoods that is generally reflective of what constitutes a " good" framework? Thanks for the help!
https://hypermedia.systems/introduction/ maybe this is a good read if you do want to go a bit against the current webdev mainstream. Disclaimer: I have not read it yet but i will.
Gross.
I don’t really get what htmx is… does it make things like modals easier? Is it a full framework, or does it just add extra features to html?
