- cross-posted to:
- lemmy@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- lemmy@lemmy.ml
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/1539337
The screenshot shows the recommendations from https://join-lemmy.org/.
Still being federated with exploding-heads does not mean the instance supports them. But it means that shit-heads are allowed to take part in the discussions on their communities. They do intoxicate the discussions we will have. They will attack minorities. Maybe you will not be harassed by them, more vulnerable people will be. They are allowed to moderate communities on these instances. Exploding-heads members actively guide young and unknowing people to their hateful instance.
They try to start discussions about the holocaust https://sh.itjust.works/post/227268. They create communities only to crosspost exploding-heads content https://lemmy.world/c/pharma They take over discussions against them https://exploding-heads.com/comment/132189 “WHY are vulnerable people joining a decentralized system? Isnt this why you want a closed, not for public eyes community?”
This was a link to exploding-heads, because when someone copies a permalink of a comment from them on another instance, it will be a link to their instance.
Are we building a place where vulnerable people are welcome and safe or are we building a place where nazis are welcome and safe?
They want you to block them, they comment that everywhere. They block people who are in favor of defederating them https://sh.itjust.works/post/225714 When their opponents won’t see them anymore, they can harass and recruit without being noticed.
Blocking will not solve the problem. They will spread even when you close your eyes.
Maybe this was not done intentionally, but nowthere is a post with a list of ‘health communities on Lemmy’ with the first entry guiding to exploding heads. https://lemmy.world/post/396561It is still possible that some of the mentioned instances do support them. The owner of sh.itjust.works says that because of “free speech” all other instances would be allowed. It is suspicious to me that his line is drawn only for lemmygrad https://sh.itjust.works/comment/130474
The decision to block the Lemmygrad instance was less a question of censorship, and more an issue of personal conviction. As a volunteer dedicating my personal resources and time to facilitating a space for users to create, discover, and discuss - not just on this instance, but across the Fediverse - I admit that this choice was made alone, selfishly, without the consent or thoroughly considering the collective opinion of the community. With the above said, sh.itjust.works has had the lemmygrad instance blocked from its first day.
I’d like to also point out that the lemmygrad instance has far more blocked instances than what is currently blocked here. Maybe you can create a post on that instance to see what that’s all about and report back?
At the same time they seem to ignore the call and vote to defederate with exploding-heads https://sh.itjust.works/post/433483.
They rejected to delete The_Donald from sh.itjust.works until they feared to get isolated from the other instances: https://lemmy.ml/post/1467310. They where aware of The_Donald and ignored early warnings. (https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/266248). TD was more important to them than keeping the only mod of their 4th biggest community c/patientgamers (https://sh.itjust.works/post/291747, https://sh.itjust.works/post/388922)
Since The_Donald was removed, I did not find more racist content on the mentioned servers. That is part their tactics. They act harmless but recruit to their instance, attract likeminded people and chase others away. Discussions on sh.itjust.works about such topics are very toxic already, soon they might be able to do more harm.
(My research is very limited, as i could not search for all exploding-heads member content on other instances by entering their domain. I know there are nice communities on sh.itjust.works.)
What can be done? On joinmastodon.org there is a Mastodon Server Covenant with very few useful rules, one of them is “Active moderation against racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia”. https://joinmastodon.org/covenant It would be a first step to implement these rules for join-lemmy.org. At least instances that want to be recommended on there should have to agree to that rule.
More actions should be taken now. Please make suggestions. Things will only become more complicated. The next reddit wave is incoming.
For those who did not already know:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
This is not the first time new platforms face these problems, do we really have to repeat the same mistakes?
-Share/crosspost
-Contact admins
update: lemmy.word defederated eh
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I think the most Democratic way is to be strict with these rules. You simply cannot and should not kick somebody for some rumors or previous posts on other instances. When there is an issue the consequence should be hard and even should include blocking for life time. Being too general in blocking people or instances will result in dumb shit like “Yeah, where is your freedom and free speech now? I did nothing!”
I aggree there must be a commitment on instance rules to either create communities or to moderate them. This is the most important part since you have to commit to a rule to face consequences when breaking them.
On the other hand don’t forget that this is currently starting and of curse its the internet. Many legal questions are still unanswered and for a registration you only need a mail account where you can validate its existence. This dumb and hateful species will find its way over and over again.
Disclaimer: I also would love to kick these instances and people, but fear one simple detail: is this better? Today we kick Nazis because here is no room for hate and racism. Is this the end or is it the start to kick e.g. transgender or homosexuality in the future?
This makes no sense. This is the typical tolerance paradox. One who is or claims to be tolerant has to be intolerant towards intolerance or intolerance will always win. We kick nazis and other hateful people because of their intolerance. Kicking Transgender or Homosexuality would be intolerant towards generally tolerant people.
A common misconception that even got it’s own name. It’s far less accepted than its believers claim, though.
My point is not to accept them. My point is that the general exclusion even without a rule breaking is not the right thing to do. I still think the example is correct placed: some people in a huge community decide that groups have to be excluded without breaking any rules. The next step is just waiting for happen that another group in this community claims that Transgender or Homosexuality is misplaced here.
We would not have far right parties if some people would decide which party is allowed to participate. This would be nice, but would this still be a democracy?
some people in a huge community decide that groups have to be excluded without breaking any rules.
How would you identify someone as a racist, fascist, hate speech generator or whatnot without them doing these things? These actions break rules in most communities and instances for very good reason. The very nature of these actions necessitates a victim. You cannot be racist without degrading someone else. You cannot be fascist without threatening others.
Note again, this is not discriminating against an unchangeable, harmless identity. It is defending against willful behavior, which is targeting and threatening others.
Being transgender or homosexual does not break any rules, as far as I am aware. Nor is it a threat to anybody.
Please think about the differences in a critical silence. The comparison is outrageously stupid, to be frank, and maybe just another way to throw unjustified shit at already discriminated minorities. I still tried to offer reasons to understand it better, if that really was the missing thing.
I did not want to compare any group in any way. This was more an example based on the understanding that these nazis should be banned generally and the ban decision is made by a couple of people without any incident.
What you say is exactly, what I mean: breaking rules should have hard consequences and in this case a live long ban. But the detail is an active breaking of our rules of free speech, respect, tolerance and peace instead of a general rumor as reason.
Ehm no, homesexuals and transgender forums tends not to be filled with hate and racism, and if they do, yeah, I see no reason not to kick them.
Today we kick Nazis because here is no room for hate and racism. Is this the end or is it the start to kick e.g. transgender or homosexuality in the future?
Nazis can stop being Nazis. Homosexuals cannot choose to be heterosexuals.
no room for hate and racism.
If you break these rules, you get some backlash. I hope trans and homo people get a similar backlash if they commit similar hate and racism.
In summary, these two points make the difference for me. We do not outlaw an unchangeable identity (in contrast to racism, which attacks exactly that), but actions which would be disruptive and detrimental for the community.
What are “exploding-heads”?
To combine two topvoted comments from the original thread:
basically the_Donald: fediverse edition, playing the traditional Alt-Right playbook. They troll, raid, and generally cause problems across the threadiverse in the name of promoting their authoritarian world view.
I don’t know how much of that is true, but it did not seem completely wrong.
Are you now posting this on each and every instance? Yesterday on sh.itjust.works, now here? And you accuse them of brigading?
Are you now posting this on each and every instance?
No, just as much as I want or deem useful.
Yesterday on sh.itjust.works
I don’t know what you are talking about. You can see the post was cross-posted two times, by me. Not yesterday, and not to sh.itjust.works.
And you accuse them of brigading?
Can you quote me on that? Maybe you confuse me with someone else.
The post is about fascism in the fediverse, so I thought federated antifascists would find it interesting. At the very least, it is relevant content for their communities.
