Yeah let’s get some of them middle eastern value instead so we can start throwing queers off buildings!
Jewish conservatives are only a slight improvement on that front.
Same with American Conservatives.
The majority of Jews are at least partly Mizrahi, ie. of Middle-eastern or North African descent. IRC Jewish conservatives are more likely to be Mizrahi, where as Ashkenzi (‘European’) Jews are more likely to be left-wing.
Prime example: Ben Gvir, the far right minister of National Security, is of Iraqi/Kurdish descent. So if anything this whole thing is arguably Middle-Eastern Muslim values vs. Middle-Eastern Jewish values.
As you say, the Israeli far right aren’t great on gay rights either. Certainly not ideological bed fellows of Dana International.
The radical Islamic revolutionaries were backed heavily by America during the Cold War as a check agaisnt Communism spreading to the Middle East. The current state of the Middle Eastern values is due to American Intervention in the region, because radical regious governments are better than Communist Governments in the eyes of Global Capital.
what_about_america.exe
high_horse.exe
oversimplification.exe
Sorry, but from that thread alone it seems (to me) that you believe it because it’s popular in our most unpopular place called Fediverse. I don’t bring it because I’m against you, but to provoke you to dig deeper and grow more clever than me in the end.
I feel like jewish occupation wasn’t an occupation in our sense of the word when the already existing population of jews began to grow long before WW1, or WW2. It only became a problem when they were harrassed and harrasing when they grew, when they legitimized their state thanks to other states and their shareholders, when they became an autonomous state to fuck their neighbors over and expand.
You said somewhere in the thread that they could chose any other land. Do native americans have this priviledge to choose the land of their long gone natives? They fight for it in court. Jew nationalist picked them by Tora, and because it was a fucking desert no one cared about that much.
And do you really connect to one side more than another? These dirty throatcutters and rapists may seem to suck just as much as these cleen-shawed indiscriminate bombers. Both kiss their kids returning home, because they killed worthless untermensch. One got close-and-personal and another just dropped there a bomb.
I don’t see anything of them being a party to side with. None of them are lefties. Just deranged maneaters.
And I want to be proven wrong after you study the subject, as I’m too stupid to get it, it seems. If you debunk it line by line, you can post it on .ml. I’m drunk and depressed, but I won’t delete or edit this comment. Go on, if you’d like to remind me of it. I’m, as a non american, has too much trouble to sympathize with Hamas. To me, they are not representatives of the Gaza and the Bank, and are banking on terrorizing whoever their funders from bigger states find an (economical or ideological) enemy in.
/rant
i’d drop it to myself for tomorrow lol https://kbin.social/m/whitepeopletwitter@sh.itjust.works/t/647081/Western-Values/comment/3715171/votes/down
now there’s one guy without any interactions
Like Iran
Counterpoint: the Ba’athists in Iraq were also heavily backed by America, even though they were pan-Arab Socialists.
…that were willing to start a war with leaning-towards-Russia Iran
The fact remains that America was supporting a socialist regime in a war against a theocracy - which really contradicts the claim made above that America was always supporting theocracies against left leaning regimes.
I was more referring to the Mujahideen in Afghanistan that the USA backed against the Soviets there. In Iran the USA backed the Shah, which was over thrown by the Islamic Revolutionary Front in 1979.
Yes.
You’re acting like the Jewish orthodoxy is down with the gays.
free press, migration, women rights…geez, one could go on for hours and there is literally NOTHING in syria, iran, gaza and their fellow hate states that is worth fighting for.
How about their lives? Genocide is fine if (in your opinion) their culture sucks, that’s the position?
no. but keep simplifying if you want
i want to hate you, but there’s a kernel of truth in there so i cannot
Next you’re going to say something silly like “fascism, greed, ethnic nationalism, and religious extremism are the problems – and they can happily thrive in every major culture on the planet.”
Get out of here with that nonsense! You have to pick a side!
Everyone is capable of crimes, which is why when someone steals from me, I just kill the next person I see (and their entire ethnicity)
That’s the spirit
If I don’t, there’s a finite chance that their children will bomb my children. If I do, there’s an even higher chance that their children will bomb my children, which gives me the impetus to bomb their whole family. I call that a win!
How about they both suck?
Bomb all those Gay Palestinians before they can get thrown off a building
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Love this image, but it feel really incomplete without this 🇧🇪 flag.
tbf france is really paying its dues, so is germany. Leopold the 3rd was an asshole. All africans should invade Belgium
Do you mean Leopold the second? If I recall the third just fell of a mountain and was a war hero (I think, my grades for history weren’t the best). Leopold the second is one of if not the worst person to have ever lived. I won’t ever forget the pictures of people without hands and noses because of him.
yep, the asshole one
How are Germany and France paying their dues?
Yes CIA?
This post right here.
/s
xd
Ah yes, ethnonationalism. A core western value.
Nationalism definitely at least used to be
Weird definition of colonialism.
Do you not understand the idea of Zionism or West Bank settlements?
Not relevant to my comment.
Colonies are not relevant to colonialism?
Lmao yes it fuxking is. Zionism is quite literally why Israel was established in Palestine instead of a ton of other proposed locations…
None of which I mentioned. My comment was on the definition of colonialism. You imagined what is in your head.
Don’t be facetious. Zionism is colonialism, just with Jewish seasoning.
I’m curious with your use of facetious here. One of us is one of today’s lucky 10,000.
You’re trying to be funny in pretending to not understand Zionism is a form of colonialism. Your semantic trick in “I’m talking about colonialism” is just a joke to you. Or do you really not understand the subject? If you do, you’re ignoring the serious issue in order to be smug.
But it isn’t just colonialism. And my comment is solely upon the definition of colonialism not fitting the circumstances here. More Penal Colony for all the folks being deported from Germany, France, Italy, and Russia especially. I’d suggest it was more like Australia colonization when the deported criminals, others, and inconvenient poors were not really in charge of the decision. So while yes, the set up is typical colonialism, it isn’t really the Israelis that did it, they are just a bunch of People deported to this location that are using violence to claim their turf, but they were not really in the “go there and take land” meeting. So it is more the WWII Allies that did the colonization. The Jews simply went there to get away from the discrimination and violence in the allied countries plus those still alive from the “liberated” axis ones.
So I remain behind my original statement, weird definition of colonialism.So it is more the WWII Allies that did the colonization
That’s who people blame, yes. The British, particularly, are the ones who created Israel.
And I don’t want you to get some wires crossed here, or to be performing some conflation, but no one other than anti-semites blames Jews in general for this, or even the innocent Jewish civilians living in Israel.
It is the Israeli state, specifically, the IDF, who are perpetuating the settler colonial vision now. Britain can be blamed for starting it, and the rest of the West can be blamed for helping support it, but it is still a program of moving people into an area while displacing the natives. Colonialism.
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?
Placing People not from your country that your country has been forcing to flee from country to country for generations onto land their many times removed ancestors fled, is not the normal definition of colonialism.
Would be closer to a deportation camp than a colonist camp.Bruh, even in the Torah, Israel took Palestine by Military force, and have always been “occupiers” of land that wasn’t originally theirs.
Wait does 2k+ years ago still count as western colonialism? If so that changes the balance all across the world.
I don’t think most of us consider that real history. They prolly did a bunch of murder, but no Egyptian slavery or Moses.
Gotta be honest with you, arguments about colonization kind of ring hollow when they were literally the original tribes living there and then had their lands colonized away from them, but still form a cohesive ethnic group thousands of years later. Unless we’ve started to impose some arbitrary statute of limitations I’m not aware on colonialism so that we exclude Israel from being colonized and the Jews exiled? Denying Jews rights would be par for the course throughout history I guess. I condemn acts of genocide, but I’m not going to say Jews don’t have some rights to the territory.
The same people saying Jews are colonizers will also talk about how literally any other ethnic group (especially Native Americans) should be given their land rights back. Their reasoning gives me a headache because it’s cognitively dissonant, and I’ve had a few agree and realize the situation is much more complicated and nuanced after I pointed the double standard out to them.
If we want to criticize the Israel state and their military for their policies and actions, giddy up. I’m on board. If we want to have discussions about colonialism, sorry, but I’m getting off this ride because I can’t justify moralizing over it
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Wtf you are talking about?
Millions died in deconlization wars throughout the regions and you say “it is fine with them”!
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That’s misleading.
Current Palestinians are native to the land, they are descendent of the “early Jew”. They might change language or religion to be: Palestinians Jew, Arab Jew, Palestinians Christian, or Palestinians Muslims Arab.
You can read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians#%3A~%3Atext%3DIn_recent_years%2C_genetic_studies%2Care_related_to_each_other.?wprov=sfla1
In fact reading about European Jew Genetics say they are different:
“Genetic studies indicate that Ashkenazim have Levantine and European (mainly southern European) ancestry. They draw diverging conclusions about the degree and sources of European admixture; some focus on the European genetic origin in Ashkenazi maternal lineages, which contrasts with the predominantly Middle Eastern genetic origin in paternal lineages.”
Further more they were not “exiled”:
“Jews migrated to southern Europe from the Middle East voluntarily for opportunities in trade and commerce. Following Alexander the Great’s conquests, Jews migrated to Greek settlements in the Eastern Mediterranean, spurred on by economic opportunities. Jewish economic migration to southern Europe is also believed to have occurred during the Roman period.”
Even then, the reason why they are occupier is because they act that way, they commited multiple documented massacres, admited by their own soldiers, and refuse the right for people who fled war to comeback.
Reading about colonization of North America gave a lot of insight and the similarities are fucked up.
What even worse is, the literally desrroy people farms and homes and kick them out to live there, compare to North America where people might lived in new cities.
Here read about the village that become a resort and they build a car park on top of mass graves.
The Tantura massacre took place on the night of 22–23 May 1948 during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, when around 40-200 Palestinian Arab villagers from Tantura were massacred by the Alexandroni Brigade, which would shortly thereafter become part of the newly formed Israeli Defense Force. The massacre occurred following Tantura’s surrender, a village of roughly 1,500 people in 1945 located near Haifa. The victims were buried in a mass grave, which today serves as a car park for the nearby Tel Dor beach.
But that’s also misleading.
Further more they were not “exiled”:
Jews migrated to southern Europe from the Middle East voluntarily for opportunities in trade and commerce. Following Alexander the Great’s conquests, Jews migrated to Greek settlements in the Eastern Mediterranean, spurred on by economic opportunities. Jewish economic migration to southern Europe is also believed to have occurred during the Roman period.
This is sort of disingenuous because even your own article talks about many other reasons for the migrations that you’re leaving out.
Jews left ancient Israel for a number of causes, including a number of push and pull factors. More Jews moved into these communities as a result of wars, persecution, unrest, and for opportunities in trade and commerce.
In 63 BCE, the Siege of Jerusalem saw the Roman Republic conquer Judea, and thousands of Jewish prisoners of war were brought to Rome as slaves. After gaining their freedom, they settled permanently in Rome as traders.[64] It is likely that there was an additional influx of Jewish slaves taken to southern Europe by Roman forces after the capture of Jerusalem by the forces of Herod the Great with assistance from Roman forces in 37 BCE. It is known that Jewish war captives were sold into slavery after the suppression of a minor Jewish revolt in 53 BCE, and some were probably taken to southern Europe.[65]
The first and second centuries CE saw a series of unsuccessful large-scale Jewish revolts against Rome. The Roman suppression of these revolts led to wide-scale destruction, a very high toll of life and enslavement. The First Jewish-Roman War (66–73 CE) resulted in the destruction of Jerusalem and the Second Temple. Two generations later, the Bar Kokhba Revolt (132–136 CE) erupted. Judea’s countryside was devastated, and many were killed, displaced or sold into slavery.[69][70][71][72] Jerusalem was rebuilt as a Roman colony under the name of Aelia Capitolina, and the province of Judea was renamed Syria Palaestina.[73][74] Jews were prohibited from entering the city on pain of death. Jewish presence in the region significantly dwindled after the failure of the Bar Kokhba revolt.[75]
With their national aspirations crushed and widespread devastation in Judea, despondent Jews migrated out of Judea in the aftermath of both revolts, and many settled in southern Europe. In contrast to the earlier Assyrian and Babylonian captivities, the movement was by no means a singular, centralized event, and a Jewish diaspora had already been established before.
During both of these rebellions, many Jews were captured and sold into slavery by the Romans. According to the Jewish historian Josephus, 97,000 Jews were sold as slaves in the aftermath of the first revolt.[76] In one occasion, Vespasian reportedly ordered 6,000 Jewish prisoners of war from Galilee to work on the Isthmus of Corinth in Greece.[77] Jewish slaves and their children eventually gained their freedom and joined local free Jewish communities.[78]
Jews migrated at various times throughout their history, either through direct exile or religious persecution that resulted in migrations. Some notable events are these:
The Assyrian captivity (or the Assyrian exile) is the period in the history of ancient Israel and Judah during which several thousand Israelites from the Kingdom of Israel were forcibly relocated by the Neo-Assyrian Empire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_captivity
Archaeological studies have revealed that, although the city of Jerusalem was utterly destroyed, other parts of Judah continued to be inhabited during the period of the exile. Most of the exiled did not return to their homeland, instead travelling westward and northward. Many settled in what is now northern Israel, Lebanon, and Syria. The Iraqi Jewish, Persian Jewish, Georgian Jewish, and Bukharan Jewish communities are believed to derive their ancestry in large part from these exiles; these communities have now largely immigrated to Israel.[6][7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_captivity
The Temple was on the site of what today is the Dome of the Rock. The gates led out close to Al-Aqsa Mosque (which came much later).[32] Although Jews continued to inhabit the destroyed city, Emperor Hadrian established a new city called Aelia Capitolina. At the end of the Bar Kokhba revolt in 135 CE, many of the Jewish communities were massacred and Jews were banned from living inside Jerusalem.[28] A pagan Roman temple was set up on the former site of Herod’s Temple.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Temple#Destruction
There were events such as these of compulsory migrations along with voluntary ones motivated by religious persecution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora
The genetics thing is more or less true implying there was still a continuity of people in the region, although Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Christians are still closer genetically to the Jewish diaspora than Palestinian Arabs, who seem to see themselves as culturally and ethnically distinct from Jews (and vice versa), despite all evidence to the contrary.
All Jewish groups were found to be genetically closer to each other than to Palestinians and Muslim Kurds. Kurdish, North African Sephardi, and Iraqi Jews were found to be genetically indistinguishable while slightly but significantly differing from Ashkenazi Jews. In relation to the region of the Fertile Crescent, the same study noted; “In comparison with data available from other relevant populations in the region, Jews were found to be more closely related to groups in the north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turks, and Armenians) than to their Arab neighbors”, which the authors suggested was due to migration and admixture from the Arabian Peninsula into certain current Arabic-speaking populations during the period of Islamic expansion.[30]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews#Paternal_line
I guess the question is whether Jews and Palestinians can reconcile things based on their shared history and genetic grounds following Arabization. I’m definitely not saying Palestinians have no right to those lands either, but the current situation most definitely is in part the result of colonization of the Jews/Palestinians at various points throughout their history. So I still feel it’s odd to call them colonizers depending on how far back your lens of history goes.
Does that mean people should be slaughtering each other? No, absolutely not. I’ll read up on Tantura.
Israel wasn’t just started by immigration from Europe. It was also the immigration of Jewish communities that had been expelled from Arab countries. These communities existed in the Middle East for centuries. They’re not white. Sadly, there are no significant Jewish populations left in Arabic countries.
This post erases all the indigenous, Middle Eastern Israelis.
Running away from Europe after being ethnically cleansed is “colonialism”? Running away from Arab countries after being ethnically cleaned is “colonialism”?
White European Jews started colonising in early 1900s, before the first world war.
No. Stealing someone’s land by killing their family and then stealing their house is colonialism.
You conveniently forgot to mention the israelis doing that.
israel doesnt treat all the jews same tho
it seems they are racist as other nations. espicially treatment of non white jews is very bad.
And the nice Palestinians took in those Zionist Jews as refugees and got STABBED IN THE BACK BY THEM HARD https://youtu.be/cWMobyQYSIc?si=ooBcS5tK1zzQ2ZMp&t=7
OK now do Islamic Colonialism.
Islamic Colonialism is bad too, if you make a post about it I’ll happily upvote it.
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Shhh! West bad, East good! Didn’t you know? Don’t disrupt the jerk!
Islamic conquest did not expel people from their lands nor did it even force them to change their religion. It especially didn’t try to kill everyone who wasn’t of some Arab “Ubermensch” race like the Zionists. It also wasn’t exploiting captured countires as a colony like the British do, instead it was nice to people so they assimilated.
There’s still a ton of Christians and Jews living in Arab countries. The Muslims were well known to be far better and accepting to the Jews than the Europeans.
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Western values
pathetic worm but tell me about human rights in the shitlands between gaza and theran. gay marriage? free press? isreal could be the Borg and it’ll still be a better society then the shit syria, iran and the other scumbags do. crazy how no muslim nation allows “tHeiR bRoTheRs aND sIstErS” in. Egypt be like: hell no those gazians cant come. so the pathetic worm knows what about values? nothing.
Fucking legend.
Holy Based
“pathetic worm” 🤓 that’s not even a reddit level insult dude that’s disney channel bad guy level
Their culture is fucked up because it’s run by extremists, and extremism thrives under adversity. Israel created Hamas and continues to cultivate extremism in its adversaries. They know they’re doing this and they love it, because it gives them continuing “justification” for escalating atrocities. Both sides are shit. It doesn’t justify genocide.
no.
lol “human rights”
it’s a propaganda word that has no real meaning
in muslim countries, right?
what country, western or not, has any law that defines a right as a human right?
can i interest you in a chatGPT subscription?
chatgpt isnt a country
Except Israel is the greatest decolonization effort man has ever seen.
The British colonized it. Before that the Ottomans colonized it…
Well over half of the people who live there now, are from the region having been kicked out of Iraq, Jordan, Egypt etc AFTER previously being forced out of Israel in the first place or have just been living there continuously… I’m including the 2 million Arab Israelis in that number. The myth that Israelis are from long island is just yet another antisemitic trope.
Decolonizing by
Checks notes
Moving to another country, and stealing other people’s land
I think you don’t know what the “de” means.
The funniest part is that the Palestinians voluntarily took refugees who proceeded to steal their houses and land https://youtu.be/cWMobyQYSIc?si=ooBcS5tK1zzQ2ZMp&t=7 You can read a childrens book about this. Israeli’s are truly the most shameless people in existence.
You mean, returning home to the place they were kicked out of by the ruling party? The place they were ethnically cleansed from? Not quite and attempting to rewrite history doesn’t make it true.
The Arabs living under British mandate were told by their Arab ‘brothers’ to get out during the war they started when Israel was granted statehood. Then they lost the war. That doesn’t make it Israel’s fault those 5 countries lost and couldn’t fulfill their promises.
900,000 Jews were forced out of their homes by those Arab countries. How about they return that land and property? Then Israel could consider returning something to the lesser number of people who got the boot in the Nakba? You want to talk about stealing homes, why aren’t you advocating for the Jews to get their homes back too? More of them were displaced after all.
You know what sad? All your points are easily proven wrong by Wikipedia.
Yet supported by just about every reputable academic. Much of it published by the UN, who’s not exactly Israel friendly. Check wikipedia after the next round of edits maybe? Seems like a lousy place to get your info in the middle of a pr war.
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Whenever someone tries this argument I like reminding them how Israel was spiraling towards fascist dictatorship immediately prior to this war.
Some cynics would say still counts but everyone else short circuits in the funniest ways.
also a Western value. not specifically Western, plenty folks do this… but certainly a practiced play in the western playbook
Tbf, I wouldn’t mind seeing an overhaul of the Supreme Court here in the United States. The Justices have too much power with no term limits and nothing to truly stop them.
Hell, just do the Second Constitutional Convention already.
