Anone who thinks it’s man hating hasn’t actually seen the movie. It has as much to say about the state of modern men as it does women.
At the start of the film it plainly states, out loud, in actual dialog, that for Barbie, every day is the best day ever, but for Ken, it’s only a good day if Barbie looks at him.
Ken’s adrift. He’s the ultimate representation of a friendzoned incel. He has no purpose in life other than as a Barbie accessory with as much agency as her swimming pool or Dream Car.
When he finds that purpose, it’s toxic. But saying the film is “man hating” is denying Ken’s search for meaning in a Barbie world.
I agree with you and I think there is even more to evaluate in Ken’s search for meaning.
Remember that he’s ultimately lost even in the real (“mans”) world.
There are two things here:
Feminism left men behind. “Maybe every night didn’t have to be a girls night.” And we have a lot of catching up to do on both sides to bring parity to the situation.
Ken expresses his exhaustion at having to be in control of everything. Much of his anxiety is rooted in a patriarchal worldview that makes him responsible for everything due to the lie that men must control the world.
As a man, husband and father myself I can so identify with that journey. I was abused in my career by managers that wanted me to fight my friends for promotions and I’ve burned out several times due to unrealistic expectations that I had of myself which were ingrained in me by a patriarchal culture. It’s very tiring to be ‘the boss’ and I’ve learned that sharing the load does not weaken me, it makes me stronger,
I think that the film is actually very kind to men. It’s saying: ‘You don’t have to do everything alone.’
I honestly wonder if women are ready though. Like I said and like the movie illustrates: there is a lot to do on both sides. Equity has a cost and I know many women who still find sanctuary in the slipstream of the men in their lives because taking that step out of the shadow takes as much bravery as admitting that you can’t be in control of everything all the time.
Your post took an entirely feminist issue and made it about men again.
“Did feminism leave men behind” is something that only men would ponder about.
“I wonder if women are ready” is another can of condescending mess. Women are put in this box of patriarchy BY MEN, so instead of taking away the box and recognizing that it shouldn’t be there in the first place, you ask if women are ready to come out of it. We’re not children that you put in a timeout corner.
You ARE Ken. In a sanctuary for Barbies, you find some rhetoric to latch onto and try to make it about your plight too.
The message of the film is that everyone is worse off due to patriarchy. Not just women.
Men need to learn that meeting halfway is not a loss.
Women need to stand ground and also invite men into a changed world.
You’re still trying to make every night a girls night.
The film is about feminism reaching a state of maturity and your anger here is proving to us all that my concerns are on point. I think that there are many men and yes, many women too who are not ready.
Are you also one of those “all lives matter” people? Women just can’t have this one thing to ourselves without you coming in mansplaining feminism to me eh?
I did not know that I was not ready for feminism but you sure showed me. How can I ever repay you?
You’re still trying to make every night a girls night.
Frankly I’m okay with that right now, especially after talking to you.
For fuck’s sake. The average man is so exhausting, and if you take this comment as “men hating” then so be it.
I don’t understand why you need this to be a women only issue when clearly it has to do with all of society? That’s literally a direct example of feminism leaving men behind!
Despite your needlessly angry tone I’m still trying to understand you ok?
WRT mansplaining: did you actually watch the film? Because I’m just commenting on what was presented there. If the movie presented feminism as a women only issue then there would be no Ken arc, the film explicitly positions these issues as shared. It’s literally the point of the whole thing. Are you just flying off the handle assuming you know what the film is about without seeing it?
IMO asserting that men cannot comment on or take part in feminism is the antithesis of the message of the film and also just bloody minded sexism.
I’m not arguing with anybody else in the thread so clearly I’m fine with men taking part in discussion here.
I’ve seen the movie but once again, thanks for assuming that I don’t know or understand anything.
I simply disagree with your assertion that feminism leaves men behind because frankly that’s a very patriarchal way of looking at women’s rights. For once, it’s not about you (men).
Then you follow up with that gem of women not being ready. Give me a fucking break.
Then again, reading your post out loud to my girlfriends at gasp! girls night in gave us a big laugh. So…thanks?
I’m sorry, but WTF? I don’t know how you look at feminism with any kind of understanding and walk away with that impression.
The fact that, as men, we’ve collectively ignored feminism’s every attempt to help us, while whining that women are helping themselves and each other, doesn’t mean that feminism has left us behind. It means we’ve refused help and to help ourselves.
I guess that’s one way to see it. It’s not the message of the movie though. The film chooses, like I do, to take a view that men have some catching up to do and that feminism itself can play a role in this by helping to carve out equitable roles.
I don’t claim to know everything about feminism. I’m just pointing out (as the film has too) that this is new territory for a lot of men. You can sit there and shout “Why haven’t you helped yourselves??!” …or you can help and try to build a progressive society together.
> I honestly wonder if women are ready though. Like I said and like the movie illustrates: there is a lot to do on both sides. Equity has a cost and I know many women who still find sanctuary in the slipstream of the men in their lives because taking that step out of the shadow takes as much bravery as admitting that you can’t be in control of everything all the time.
I think the movie at the end says no, because the Barbie are still quite averse to the concept of equality despite everything that happened.
I agree. I think the film does a great job peeling back the bias of sexism and making it, not a problem with men, but with humanity. Something we can all commiserate with and all benefit from working at making things better.
Anone who thinks it’s man hating hasn’t actually seen the movie. It has as much to say about the state of modern men as it does women.
At the start of the film it plainly states, out loud, in actual dialog, that for Barbie, every day is the best day ever, but for Ken, it’s only a good day if Barbie looks at him.
Ken’s adrift. He’s the ultimate representation of a friendzoned incel. He has no purpose in life other than as a Barbie accessory with as much agency as her swimming pool or Dream Car.
When he finds that purpose, it’s toxic. But saying the film is “man hating” is denying Ken’s search for meaning in a Barbie world.
I agree with you and I think there is even more to evaluate in Ken’s search for meaning.
Remember that he’s ultimately lost even in the real (“mans”) world.
There are two things here:
Feminism left men behind. “Maybe every night didn’t have to be a girls night.” And we have a lot of catching up to do on both sides to bring parity to the situation.
Ken expresses his exhaustion at having to be in control of everything. Much of his anxiety is rooted in a patriarchal worldview that makes him responsible for everything due to the lie that men must control the world.
As a man, husband and father myself I can so identify with that journey. I was abused in my career by managers that wanted me to fight my friends for promotions and I’ve burned out several times due to unrealistic expectations that I had of myself which were ingrained in me by a patriarchal culture. It’s very tiring to be ‘the boss’ and I’ve learned that sharing the load does not weaken me, it makes me stronger,
I think that the film is actually very kind to men. It’s saying: ‘You don’t have to do everything alone.’
I honestly wonder if women are ready though. Like I said and like the movie illustrates: there is a lot to do on both sides. Equity has a cost and I know many women who still find sanctuary in the slipstream of the men in their lives because taking that step out of the shadow takes as much bravery as admitting that you can’t be in control of everything all the time.
Aw thanks so much for your concern. 🙄
The fact that that’s what you took from my post kind of illustrates my point. Albeit ironically.
Your post took an entirely feminist issue and made it about men again.
“Did feminism leave men behind” is something that only men would ponder about.
“I wonder if women are ready” is another can of condescending mess. Women are put in this box of patriarchy BY MEN, so instead of taking away the box and recognizing that it shouldn’t be there in the first place, you ask if women are ready to come out of it. We’re not children that you put in a timeout corner.
You ARE Ken. In a sanctuary for Barbies, you find some rhetoric to latch onto and try to make it about your plight too.
The message of the film is that everyone is worse off due to patriarchy. Not just women.
Men need to learn that meeting halfway is not a loss.
Women need to stand ground and also invite men into a changed world.
You’re still trying to make every night a girls night.
The film is about feminism reaching a state of maturity and your anger here is proving to us all that my concerns are on point. I think that there are many men and yes, many women too who are not ready.
Are you also one of those “all lives matter” people? Women just can’t have this one thing to ourselves without you coming in mansplaining feminism to me eh?
I did not know that I was not ready for feminism but you sure showed me. How can I ever repay you?
Frankly I’m okay with that right now, especially after talking to you.
For fuck’s sake. The average man is so exhausting, and if you take this comment as “men hating” then so be it.
I don’t understand why you need this to be a women only issue when clearly it has to do with all of society? That’s literally a direct example of feminism leaving men behind!
Despite your needlessly angry tone I’m still trying to understand you ok?
WRT mansplaining: did you actually watch the film? Because I’m just commenting on what was presented there. If the movie presented feminism as a women only issue then there would be no Ken arc, the film explicitly positions these issues as shared. It’s literally the point of the whole thing. Are you just flying off the handle assuming you know what the film is about without seeing it?
IMO asserting that men cannot comment on or take part in feminism is the antithesis of the message of the film and also just bloody minded sexism.
I’m not arguing with anybody else in the thread so clearly I’m fine with men taking part in discussion here.
I’ve seen the movie but once again, thanks for assuming that I don’t know or understand anything.
I simply disagree with your assertion that feminism leaves men behind because frankly that’s a very patriarchal way of looking at women’s rights. For once, it’s not about you (men).
Then you follow up with that gem of women not being ready. Give me a fucking break.
Then again, reading your post out loud to my girlfriends at gasp! girls night in gave us a big laugh. So…thanks?
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I’m sorry, but WTF? I don’t know how you look at feminism with any kind of understanding and walk away with that impression.
The fact that, as men, we’ve collectively ignored feminism’s every attempt to help us, while whining that women are helping themselves and each other, doesn’t mean that feminism has left us behind. It means we’ve refused help and to help ourselves.
I guess that’s one way to see it. It’s not the message of the movie though. The film chooses, like I do, to take a view that men have some catching up to do and that feminism itself can play a role in this by helping to carve out equitable roles.
I don’t claim to know everything about feminism. I’m just pointing out (as the film has too) that this is new territory for a lot of men. You can sit there and shout “Why haven’t you helped yourselves??!” …or you can help and try to build a progressive society together.
@Toouwuforu @jordanlund @realcaseyrollins@kbin.projectsegfau.lt
> I honestly wonder if women are ready though. Like I said and like the movie illustrates: there is a lot to do on both sides. Equity has a cost and I know many women who still find sanctuary in the slipstream of the men in their lives because taking that step out of the shadow takes as much bravery as admitting that you can’t be in control of everything all the time.
I think the movie at the end says no, because the Barbie are still quite averse to the concept of equality despite everything that happened.
I agree. I think the film does a great job peeling back the bias of sexism and making it, not a problem with men, but with humanity. Something we can all commiserate with and all benefit from working at making things better.
All of this. I’m not pro third wave feminism but I absolutely loved the messaging about the toxic state of Ken.
The movie posters that I’ve seen literally say that in two sentences. Even the song says she’s a Barbie girl in a Barbie world.
I think you’re going a bit deep for this kind of person. And it’s no surprise that this sort is so whiny.