This is the Discord FAQ archive, I recommend reading all of it https://lemmy.ca/post/20577314
**Steam Announcement 5/2/24 **
This announces the return of PSN forced logins
“Due to technical issues at the launch of HELLDIVERS™ 2, we allowed the linking requirements for Steam accounts to a PlayStation Network account to be temporarily optional. That grace period will now expire. See details below in this post.
Account linking plays a critical role in protecting our players and upholding the values of safety and security provided on PlayStation and PlayStation Studios games. This is our main way to protect players from griefing and abuse by enabling the banning of players that engage in that type of behaviour. It also allows those players that have been banned the right to appeal.”
**Playstation Announcement 5/5/24 **
Backing out the PSN account changes, some corpo BS basically
"Helldivers fans—we’ve heard your feedback on the Helldivers 2 account linking update. The May 6 update, which would have required Steam and PlayStation Network account linking for new players and for current players beginning May 30, will not be moving forward. We’re still learning what is best for PC players and your feedback has been invaluable. Thanks again for your continued support of Helldivers 2 and we’ll keep you updated on future plans.”
**Some Analysis **
Basically from the information I gathered here’s how I see it went down. The notice requiring PSN connection was always there where all the EULA requirements are (right side of the store page next to the game features. You have to scroll past the buy button to see it. I never look at those. “Requires 3rd-Party Account: PlayStation Network (Supports Linking to Steam Account)” The PSN connection requirement was —active— on launch for a short amount of time. Due to the massive server lag this was causing they paused the feature. They then reenabled, leading to the previous 2 announcements.
**Problems I see with Sony **
- They should never have sold to the 177 countries that it is illegal Corporate BS from the FAQ basically says go to a country that supports PSN, make an account, and go back.
Comment from @jet@hackertalks.com “Basically if you don’t live in a PSN country, they want you to lie to make a PSN account, making you in breach of the TOS. But they don’t want to say it directly. So they only answer in that mealy mouthed if you’re traveling scenario. What this means is if you live in one of the 66% of the world countries that doesn’t have access to PSN You’re going to lose access to the game. Unless you lie. And if you lie you could get banned.”
- They needed to make it absolutely clear in-game that they were having server issues and that PSN login would be required once they got that sorted.
This was a fuck-up on their part not keeping their users informed. If they had put in that simple notification in-game none of this would have happened.
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After one or two months of the feature not working and having huge success with the servers, amount of users, and player engagement, they should have just scrapped the feature.
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Anyone being gifted the game would not have been aware of this, ever.
**Good things that happened: **
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Steam offered full refunds to anyone that played, regardless of hours, which is extremely rare
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After much collaboration from the gamers, PSN is no longer required
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Gamers were able to push a corpo to not do some BS. Huge win
**To summarize: **
I didn’t notice the 3rd party login that was present when I purchased. That’s on me. Early gamers knew about the PSN connection. Any one of them that thought it was bad would have just returned it. Any one who didn’t care kept playing and didn’t bring it up because they didn’t care. Sony probably made the assumption people pay attention to those things. I will continue to play. For Democracy!
If you did leave a negative review consider taking it down. It is still a very great game. I’m going to delete mine but am not going to give a positive one due to the fuckery.
I’m not taking down my negative review in spite due to this sub being flooded with people demanding I change my review.
They need to learn that there are permanent consequences and they can’t just say “oh whoopsies we changed our mind” they will keep doing this with all their other games.
We need to show them that it’s not acceptable at all and anyone else thinking about doing something similar can look at the half a million negative reviews for Helldivers as a reminder.
There’s an interesting video on game theory (not video game theory) that I watched the other day that I think applies. When it comes to interacting with a potentially hostile third party - e.g. USA vs Soviet Union during the Cold War, or in this case Players vs Sony - there is a choice to choose a positive or negative interaction.
The most successful strategy is “tit for tat”, meaning you respond positively at first and only go negative if they go negative. But then if they go positive, you change your response back to positive.
It’s worth a watch if you have some time to kill. https://youtu.be/mScpHTIi-kM
You are comparing apples to jellyfish… international diplomacy is not the same as consumers interacting with a company.
This is game theory, not diplomacy. It’s more a simplified simulation of any interaction between two opposed groups.
Yes, it’s simply a way to maximize the benefit of cooperation for an agent. Cooperate until the other agent steals then punish immediately but don’t hold a grudge about it and go back to cooperation. It’s relatively simple to simulate and it’s the most fruitful strategy.
Can you go more in depth about the differences you see? Only stating they’re different isn’t a convincing argument.
It’s a very relevant video to this discussion. It’s worth a watch.
That’s totally fine and your choice completely. All I was asking was to consider doing it.
Would it not give more incentive to listen if it gives them the opportunity to go back to a previous rating? If they know they are going to be stuck there they might just go through with the decision people are protesting.
You are giving them all the power… it should be a lesson to never do it again. Your game stays looking like shit for even trying that bullshit. They already said PSN will be required for all their other PC games so they haven’t learned shit.
I 100% guarantee they will add the PSN requirement back to Helldivers 2 a year down the road.
Permanent consequences result in permanent changes. If we back down now it will only get worse in the future.
If I threaten to join a Union because my work is treating me like shit and they stop treating me like shit so i don’t join a union whats stopping them from doing it to the next guy when I’m gone?
You calling for people to change their review is completely counter productive to change in the future.
Again I’m not calling for it. Just consideration which led to the discussion we are having.
If everyone gives a negative review for the other games that require PSN, then takes it back when they change then they will see their games stay negative until they take PSN out. Then they stop putting it in all together.
I think your union example doesn’t quite fit the situation. A union gives you lawful rights. The threat for the company to start treating you right is that unions exist and once you join you don’t quit one. We have no rights on steam so our only influence is negative reviews. If we never ‘reward’ the company for not being dirt bags then even if they make a bad decision, there is no incentive to change it back.
You are comparing apples to jellyfish… Unionization is not the same as consumers interacting with a company.
I’m being snarky btw. I’m purposely referring to your other comment.
I personally will do the ‘tit for tat’ approach. But if you wanna keep sticking it to Sony, go at it.
I dont want to defend Sony, but the big issue here was the fact that it was not required at first and sold in regions where psn is not available.
If they want to release future titles on PC with a psn requirement that’s their business, as long as they do it in the proper regions and with the explicit and consistent requirement. They must make it clearly known to the customer beforehand.
I don’t have to like it and i certainly won’t buy any game with that requirement, but they corrected this fuckup and I can continue to enjoy this product I bought, free of psn.
“I don’t want to defend Sony” proceeds to defend Sony
Plenty of third party accounts are needed for steam purchases, that alone isnt news worthy or even really objectionable at this point. And were it just for that we would have never gotten sony to back down, or even close to this amount of outrage.
What made this protest succeed are the accidental sales outside the psn regions, and the attempt to make psn mandatory retroactively.
If I may ask, what are you so mad about? We got what we wanted, a purchase we made to remain as it is. I won’t be buying their products in the future if psn is required, but i also dont care about their shitty business as long as it doesn’t affect me. And we averted that.
I feel like if we leave our shitty reviews on an otherwise masterpiece of a game, Sony, ea, all those other shit publishers (too many to list) will just dismiss gamers as never happy. Reviews will mean shit to them. And the reviews will mean shit to consumers if they are always negative. I can’t think of a single game other than helldivers (Baldurs gate?) that hasn’t been met with the hivemind calling for heads in the last decade. While I agree with the hivemind, at some point they are just gonna be like fuck it, gamers are never happy, they keep buying the games though, so make as much money as possible. Kinda like a kid that’s always grounded has nothing to lose.
If there is never a positive then it will never be taken seriously. I already am skeptical that this game will keep going at the rate its going. It is a $40 game, and the Warbonds can easily be earned in game, so no one’s buying them with actual money. While 10-15 years ago that was normal, that model doesn’t really hold up in what the profitability standards are for publishers now. Least we can do is keep positive reviews so people keep buying the game and keep the devs in the office long term.
Agreed, check out my reply to the guy one below. I just don’t want to force people and would rather debate ya know?