• snooggums@midwest.social
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    8 months ago

    If the voters are too stupid to vote against Trump by voting for Biden, that is on them.

    Biden hasn’t done anything to screw over US citizens. Yes, he continues some shitty foreign policies by supporting Israel and hasn’t achieved as much as he wanted because of GOP obstruction, but he has done some positive stuff.

    Trump never did anything positive at all, and tried to overthrow the government.

    Real tough choice there!

    • PugJesus@kbin.social
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      8 months ago

      But maybe if fascism wins this time, we’ll magically get a left-wing government afterwards? It’s like a pendulum!

      • snooggums@midwest.social
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        8 months ago

        Sorry that I didn’t make it clear I was speaking about his time as president, since he is running for reelection as president. Your point that nobody can ever be forgiven for doing things wrong in the past is absolutely the best logical action.

        Why vote for someone who had done the right things for the past couple decades just because their opponent tried to overthrow the government?

    • FlexibleToast@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      If the voters are too stupid to vote against Trump by voting for Biden, that is on them.

      Nope. That’s on the candidate.

      Real tough choice there!

      I mean, I agree with you. It’s an obvious choice and I can’t put my mind in the headspace of anyone that can vote for Trump at this point. Usually I can at least understand the opposition’s point of view. I will definitely be voting for Biden… However, that doesn’t change the fact that it is up to the party and the candidate to earn the votes, it’s not up to the voters to cover for the party.

      • snooggums@midwest.social
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        8 months ago

        Biden appeals to most of the Democratic voters, which is why he is their candidate and why he won in 2020.

        Unaffiliated voters expecting him to appeal to them specifically is on those voters, not the Dems.

        • Beetschnapps@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          It’s like people didn’t notice how the GOP shrank down to core fanatics and dems won by expanding the tent in their own party.

          Now these people think the same level of ideological compromise that should define congress apparently has no place in their own party.

          NEWSFLASH: if you refuse to participate unless your ideological purity test is met, you should prob go join the tea party.

          Get over it and grow up. A capable, national political party will clearly include people other than you, viewpoints other than yours, and you won’t always get what you want.

          Work with people instead of working selfishly against everyone not 100% aligned with your own mental utopia. Your purity test is not a reason to flip the table.

        • FlexibleToast@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Unaffiliated voters expecting him to appeal to them specifically is on those voters, not the Dems.

          Except if the Democrats want to win.

          • snooggums@midwest.social
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            8 months ago

            So don’t appeal to the Dem party voters, appeal to other people who have an extremely wide variety of expectations that apparently don’t align with the Dems.

            Sound logic!

            • FlexibleToast@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              If you want to win, you have to appeal to the majority of voters. That’s how voting works… You can do that by energizing the base to overcome the middle or by appealing to the middle. If you pick a candidate that can’t do either, don’t expect to win.

      • PugJesus@kbin.social
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        8 months ago

        Nope. That’s on the candidate.

        Anything but citizens accepting responsibility for their actions in a democracy. ANYTHING but that!

        • FlexibleToast@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          There is nothing saying a voter has to vote or that a candidate has to run. We both voluntarily take part in this transaction and it’s up to the candidate to earn the votes of the voters.

          • PugJesus@kbin.social
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            8 months ago

            There is nothing saying a voter has to vote

            No, there isn’t.

            But a voter not voting is still making a choice, and they are responsible for that choice.

            The candidates aren’t lords, and we aren’t peasants. In a republic, CITIZENS are responsible for who they vote OR DON’T VOTE for.

            There’s no choice you can make where you lack responsibility. Whatever happens - it is our fault as citizens. If you can answer to your conscience in the case of a Trump presidency… well, gods help you, because I can’t.

            • FlexibleToast@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              Yes, it was the voters choice to say that neither of the candidates appealed to them. It’s not the voters fault if a candidate loses, it’s the candidates fault for not appealing to the voters. It’s really not a complicated concept, but you’re still getting it backward.

              If a company goes out of business is it the fault of the consumer, or of the company for not offering products the consumer wants?

              • snooggums@midwest.social
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                8 months ago

                Do the customers know that going out of business means it will be replaced with a new fascist business which will absolutely destroy the town?

                If so, that is on the customers for letting perfection be the enemy of good.

              • PugJesus@kbin.social
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                8 months ago

                Yes, it was the voters choice to say that neither of the candidates appealed to them.

                In which case that voter is responsible for whichever one that won.

                Refusing to act just means that you have endorsed the end result.

                It’s not the voters fault if a candidate loses, it’s the candidates fault for not appealing to the voters.

                It’s the voters fault that whoever wins, wins. You don’t get to cross your arms and get all huffy and say “Well, I wasn’t going to vote for GENOCIDE JOE, but I don’t like that Trump won! This is unfair!”

                Your. Vote. Matters.

                Citizens. Have. Responsibility.

                If a company goes out of business is it the fault of the consumer, or of the company for not offering products the consumer wants?

                I can’t believe I have to say this in the context of a left-leaning discussion, but companies are not democratic societies.

                • FlexibleToast@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  It’s the voters fault that whoever wins, wins.

                  Hey, you got that part right. It is up the voters to pick the winner. Which is why it’s up to the party to pick a candidate that can earn the votes to win.

                  • PugJesus@kbin.social
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                    8 months ago

                    Which is why it’s up to the party to pick a candidate that can earn the votes to win.

                    Here I thought it was up to the voters to pick a candidate. Silly me.