!asklemmy@lemmy.ml - ARE YOU A TANKIE? - informal poll results ~

😱

A ridiculous question. “Tankie” isn’t a term anyone self-identifies with, it’s mostly a term used by liberals to hurl at anyone to the left of them or anyone who agrees with western foreign policy. The survey results will be as meaningless as the term “tankie” itself.

Image description: A5 page, with various pie charts and text, indicating the results of an informal poll from lemmy.ml, full image text in spoiler

full image text

ARE TANKIES TAKING CONSPIRING TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A BAD TIME ON LEMMY.ML ??

HEXBEAR.NET

DOES THE WORK FOR YOU!!

WE ASKED !asklemmy@lemmy.ml ARE YOU A TANKIE?

First stack of pie charts shows the yes / no split, highlights that the lemmy.ml yes responses made up less than half of the yes votes, hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml only made up a small portion, some hexbear-ians even vote no
second and third pie charts show the yes votes, and no votes by instance respectively
third stacked pie chart shows the yes / no split by instance, overlay-ed with the total yes / no votes

only top level comments were counted
tankies are closer than they appear
Deeply unserious
NDTS

full results / data 
COUNTA of yes
@lemmy.ml = 10
@lemmygrad.ml = 5
@lemmy.world = 3
@lemmy.zip = 1
@hexbear.net = 3
@lemmy.sdf.org = 1
@lemmy.one = 1
Grand Total  = 24

COUNTA of no
@lemmy.ml = 2
@lemm.ee = 2
@lemmy.world = 8
@lemmy.blahaj.zone = 1
@reddthat.com = 1
@ttrpg.network = 1
@hexbear.net = 4
@lemmy.jhjacobs.nl = 1
Grand Total = 20

taken from archived post https://archive.md/AAY1L

this was fun, thanks for the polling idea, Kristina (I spent too long on these charts because yours looked so spiffy, I hope you specifically are impressed lol), solidarity cleaning that data up, and general reminder people only half read anything before launching into a diatribe

tl:dr yes, tankies are totally conspiring to make sure you have a bad time on lemmy.ml

specter

  • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
    30·
    6 months ago

    All in all, “Tankie” is just the modern version of “Pinko!” I’ve seen Anarchists called Tankies, every manner of Marxists, non-Marxist Socialists, and more. It truly lost all of its meaning and is just Lemmy’s Red Scare.

    A huge portion of that comes from Lemmy.world, which is the largest instance to defederate intentionally from Hexbear and Grad, which has the presumably unintended effect of making Zionists and other far-right wingers feel comfortable in an Anticommunist instance.

      • GeneralVincent@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        6 months ago

        I’m starting to realize one of the biggest issues with the fediverse is how much tribalism is going to play a part in interactions between instances. It seems like every instance is going to have some absurd stereotypes that get repeated as fact.

        Some people in .ml and hexbear were labeled tankies, accurately or not, and now you’re all tankies. And this post seems to be in response to that, saying the word tankie isn’t even a real thing. And now we have comments suggesting lemmy.world is also a unified group promoting certain ideologies. It’s the largest instance, we’re gonna have one-off crazies saying stupid stuff.

        I know it does makes a small difference being on .world vs .ml/hexbear. But most people in both are leftists if what I’ve seen is accurate. We’re just being stereotypical leftist splintering ourselves into separate groups over the smallest differences.

    • commiewithoutorgans [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
      8·
      6 months ago

      Unintended may be somewhat true, in that nobody explicitly had that as a conscious reason, but it was an obvious result that they could’ve known beforehand. So I don’t think it’s useful at all to call it unintended. Just an easily understood and expected side effect

      • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
        5·
        6 months ago

        That’s a fair enough critique. They definitely should have known what would happen, but this is more for the new users who came after defederation.

    • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
      19·
      6 months ago

      I’ve seen Anarchists called “tankie” so at this point it either needs to be entirely redefined or done away with. Even suggesting people to read Marx can get you called a tankie these days.

      • SomeLemmyUser@discuss.tchncs.de
        10·
        6 months ago

        So if I call a car a giraffe the word giraffe looses its meaning and becomes invalid?

        Misusage of terms doesn’t cancel out the concept these words refer to lul

        If it would in would just call my bake rolls fascists, so the fascists go away

            • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
              4·
              6 months ago

              What would have been the non-tankie response to the Bay of Pigs?

              Are liberals tankies because of the Kent State massacre? What about the American Civil War?

              The same is obviously true of South Korea for their slaughter of leftists and pro-democracy liberals in Gwang-Ju via the Army.

              Same also goes to Israel for murdering their own hostages and slaughtering Palestinians, and the US for supporting it.

              Your answer is nice in that it’s a definitive metric we can track, unlike vibes-based answers I usually see. However, it is extremely broad in scope.

              • SomeLemmyUser@discuss.tchncs.de
                3·
                6 months ago

                You are not making a point by asking those questions…

                If you think those where legitimate actions but generally think of yourself not as an authoritarian kind of person and in your book you don’t fall under the definition of tankie, you may very well think so.

                I believe many people would argue that if you are in favor of any kind of violence against the own civil populations with the army this brings you over the edge. But even if so, this doesn’t make you as as person atankie, no questions asked, case done.

                You can be generally against nuclear power except in one very specific case, scientific long time submarines for example, this doesn’t make you a nuclear enthusiast. In my oppinion its the same with tankie, but if you find an excuse for every or nearly all instances (by socialist/left/eastern block) it paints a picture that suggests you may be generally in favor of such measures if they are done by an entity you sympathise with, which would make the term fitting in my opinion

                If you believe the term can refer to entities who are not on the left wing side of the political spectrum, you may be in a minority. But one could of course take those positions… I would strongly disagree with this one personally though, and I don’t think this is how a lot of people use the term. I think most people use it to describe a portion of the socialist/communist spectrum, again the boundary is blurry but the direction is quite clear. (which gives you the answer for most of your questiom btw.)

                Now let’s turn the table:

                Do you think the terms “left-wing” and “right-wing” are meangless/useless?

                If not could you please define them for me?

                Edit: some typos Also: you keep referring to states, which of course helps some ways of your argumentation but I think its mostly used for people, not nations

                • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
                  4·
                  6 months ago

                  It is my opinion that all violent events must be judged within their context and on a case by case basis. The Cuban government absolutely should have stopped the Bay of Pigs, while Chun Doo-Hwan absolutely should not have butchered his people.

                  As for Authoritarian, the word is usually thrown against Socialists without backing up what it means. If I say I am in favor of a Socialist Republic, which extends Democratic control to Production and eliminates the idea of the Wealthy influencing the state, does that make me an Authoritarian? Yes, according to those abusing the word Tankie.

                  For your question, leftism is support for Socialism and movements towards it, while rightism is support for Capitalism and movements towards it.

      • SomeLemmyUser@discuss.tchncs.de
        14·
        6 months ago

        Woke: from civil right movement, someone who is weary of loyalty to the state and instead examines society/policy/politics himself. - in modern times used as slur against progressive and ecological conscious people by right wing people.

        Tankie: Someone who is authoritarian to a degree he sees using the army (tanks) against the own civilian population as a valid and legitimate action. Sometimes used as slur by people against those measures (or generally highly authoritarian top down approaches of state theory) or as (positive) self reference by people in favor of such measures (or generally highly authoritarian top down approaches of state theory)

        Don’t know what your problem is defining both.

        EDIT: Not to be confused with “I know exactly who a tankie is and who isn’t - my definition is 100% correct” or even “there are exact boundaries and conditions to what a tankie is”

        Its like “peace”, " progressive", “right-wing”, different people will give you different definitions, my point is, that there is a concept to which the word refers and different interpretations/ambiguities don’t render the term useless simply by existing.

              • SomeLemmyUser@discuss.tchncs.de
                1·
                6 months ago

                I assumed people would be smart enough themselfs to know that the term is directed at left wing entities.

                My definition must be 100% correct and .ml and hexbear try to disprove it from every vector, people purposely ignoring the context and the rest of the comment, but Just stating “the term means nothing” without any arguments or evaluating further than “its like woke” appears to be a good argument to them…

                Then my argument just is: “It means something” “its like >left-wing<” That should be equally appealing.

                Edited for at least a bit less sassyness

          • SomeLemmyUser@discuss.tchncs.de
            1·
            6 months ago

            I guess this is because they were allies and the east block was more closely related to each other then most States today.

            Edited out assumptions

            • TRexBear@hexbear.netEnglish
              3·
              6 months ago

              I just think it’s funny that capitalist states like the US or Israel fit your definition equally as well if not more so than socialist states like the USSR or the PRC. “Supports using state violence against civilians in certain specific circumstances” is such a vague definition that it could be practically applied to supporters of any state, it’s so generic it’s useless.

              If you want a more accurate definition, just say “tankies” are Marxist-Leninists or supporters of AES countries. At least that makes sense and is specific. Less critical and derogatory though, which I suppose goes against the intention of the term.

            • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
              3·
              6 months ago

              “Hmm can’t fool me Ivan, you’re just presenting facts that prove your point and make me look foolish, aren’t you?”

              The dastardly tankie strategy of knowing what you’re talking about before you start talking about it.

        • GeneralVincent@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2·
          6 months ago

          Yeah, a bunch of people misuse both ‘woke’ and ‘tankie’ as just insults so both seem to lose meaning. Especially with politically charged words, I think leftists have a knee jerk reaction to being mislabeled a tankie and come to the conclusion that it is meaningless and not just misused.

          Thr word tankie even has a wiki page

          I think it’s a useful term, saying authoritarian communist is just too wordy.

      • SomeLemmyUser@discuss.tchncs.de
        5·
        6 months ago

        Tankie: Someone who is authoritarian to a degree he sees using the army (tanks) against the own civilian population as a valid and legitimate action. Sometimes used as slur by people against those measures (or generally highly authoritarian top down approaches of state theory) or as (positive) self reference by people in favor of such measures (or generally highly authoritarian top down approaches of state theory)

    • Empathy [he/him]@beehaw.org
      8·
      6 months ago

      I’m pretty damn left leaning and I’ve never been called a tankie. I rarely even see anyone being called a tankie, except people who are defending authoritarians. The scope of the word “tankie” seemed generally pretty clear to me.

      • SomeLemmyUser@discuss.tchncs.de
        4·
        6 months ago

        Same, never experinced problems with misusage of the term (in real life). When i mentioned this in another thread, someone chimed in and stayed they were experiencing it constantly for no reason and also leftist around him would be called that. Later that discussion it was revealed that he thinks everyone who doesn’t agree with Stalins policy is not (true) left…

        I hear waaaaayyy more complaining about the term tankie from actual tankies than I hear people using it as a general slur against left people.

        • Facebones@reddthat.com
          1·
          6 months ago

          I get called a tankie pretty frequently for anything vauguely left of biden on Lemmy. Ive never heard the term IRL, but I HAVE been called a communist IRL two or three times for saying a 40 hour work week should cover a basic level of housing.

          • SomeLemmyUser@discuss.tchncs.de
            1·
            5 months ago

            HM… Are you defending (authoriatharian) policys of historical socialism a lot? Because i am in the the left side of the political spectrum too, and didn’t have this experience on Lemmy. Maybe its because I frequent European. Communities more often, where there is not so much red scare as in America.

            I have also beend called a communist, also in real life, but this wasn’t meant as an insult but as a description. I argument in favor of a democracy without capitalism, maybe with councils (strange that there seems to be no English word for “rätesystem” which doesn’t involve worker or soldiers, which is to exclusive IMO), so calling me a communist/socialist is understandable and (apart from some very rare instances) wasn’t meant to discredit me.

            I have never been called a tankie though, and have never (even online) seen someone get called a tankie who had undogmatic views. People will defend dictators like Stalin, then define everyone who doesn’t agree with Stalin as “libtards” and then get upset when undogmatic socialist who get mislabled that way call them tankies.

            Sure, as with every buzzword misuse cases will exist, but most peoples argument is that they use the term for “everyone on the left spectrum” so its is meaningless, but for them the left spectrum only includes tankies, and they just define everyone else as not left.

            • Facebones@reddthat.com
              1·
              5 months ago

              Are you defending authoritarian policies of historical socialism alot?

              Nope, but I do point out that most socialist countries fail due to direct US intervention, which is true but inconvenient to their narrative that socialism is a failure.

              I have also been called a communist, but this wasn’t meant as an insult but a description

              Are you familiar with the American concept of the “Bible Belt?” It’s essentially just the American Southeast, Texas out to the East Coast, up to mid-Virginia or so. (The confederate states, basically.) This section of the country continues to be hyper religious and hyper conservative. What I’m getting at is that in this neck of the woods, socialist and communist are used almost exclusively as slurs lol, for anybody who doesn’t have an almost comical conservative stance.

              • SomeLemmyUser@discuss.tchncs.de
                1·
                5 months ago

                Hm seems like the local discourse is kinda f up. I can imagine the same for conservative parts of Europe. Still IMHO we should not let terms (mostly used in interleft discussions) get destroyed by the far rights low insight in the details of left politcs

      • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
        2·
        6 months ago

        I’ve been called a Tankie for suggesting people read Marx, and I have seen Anarchists called Tankie before.

        It seems that it’s just a way to left-punch from liberals.

  • davel [he/him]@lemmy.mlEnglish
    14·
    6 months ago

    Reporter: [REDACTED]
    Reason: Spam or Abuse

    Reporter is having a bad time on lemmy.ml, what more evidence do you need?

  • Dippy@beehaw.org
    11·
    6 months ago

    I’ve never seen a set of graphs with so few labels for everything it was showing

  • MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    5·
    6 months ago

    I’ve only ever seen people complain about them tangentially. Guess I’m not following the communities they usually pop up in

  • myself@lemmy.ml
    5·
    6 months ago

    Actually can’t tell if this was made by a tankie or a sane person and I love it