This post reminds me of an old adage I heard about driving. “Everyone that drives slower than me is an idiot, and everyone that drives faster is a maniac”
As others are saying, your middle ground is someone else’s extreme.
Well I was 2 day banned from Reddit saying I disagree with a ruling that was in favour with a transgender person and that I don’t agree with the ideals of transgenders.
I got a 2 day ban for harassment and abuse, appealed it as it was not, and then got a permaban.
“…that I don’t agree with the ideals of transgenders.”
Ah, there it is. Has the same vibes as, “I don’t have a problem with black people, just black culture.”
And what “ideals” are you taking issue with? You mean how trans folks want to be treated equally and fairly? Or maybe how trans folks want to raise awareness of violence across the world towards them? Or maybe how trans folks would like people to respect their pronouns, the exact same way people have been doing for centuries with nicknames and preferred names?
I’m talking about being able to discuss things like that without being banned to a certain extent. Example: I disagree with trans people “ok”.
I want every trans person dead “not ok, ban”
You can discuss trans issues all over the place. Trans folks and allies in thousands of forums, websites, and physical locations like diversity centers at universities will happily provide you with reading materials to learn about trans issues and larger LGBT+ issues.
What people won’t tolerate is bigotry and hate. You can disagree with trans folks about all kinds of things, just like anyone else in the world, but nobody is going to tolerate you questioning their identity or whether or not they should have the same rights as anybody else.
The fact that you keep treating trans folks and their views as a universal collective means one of three things:
You disagree with the core issues that 99.99% of trans people agree on.
You are using “transgenders” as some kind of dog whistle for your bigoted views and you’re trying to play the victim in the classic, “I’m just asking questions, why is that banned?” kind of way.
You’re totally ignorant to trans and larger LGBT+ issues and you need to get informed.
If it’s the first, then you’re a bigot who doesn’t think trans folks should be treated fairly and equally in society.
If it’s the second, you’re also a bigot and just trying to hide it.
If it’s the third, you need to start reading and listening to LGBT+ content and learn about social issues from them and their lived experience. Go to a site like glaad.org and start reading there. You can also go to your local library and ask for the LGBT+ section, they will usually have materials and content there that will be informative. Also, any major college/university will have a diversity center or club, go there and ask them for good starter material for getting informed on LGBT+ issues.
I don’t hate transgender people, what I do hate (I mean that word) is that we enable gender dysphoria and not help them get treatment for it. The way that we promote it, kinda bothers me as I see it as enabling behavior. I actually feel sorrow and pain for them, as they are the ones suffering the most with no idea what is going on inside their mind. I will note on the record, condoning violence, abuse or hate towards them. No human being who has not committed atrocities deserves that.
I do not dog whistle because I have no one to whistle to. I am not left wing and I am not right wing. I have no political label because I choose not to subscribe to tribal banter. Call me a modern Richard Stallman.
You are literally the “enlightened centrist” stereotype, and you are talking nonsense about trans treatment. Despite the vast majority of research showing that gender affirming care has extremely high success rates and almost all trans folks not regretting transitioning, you apparently refuse to accept that.
Worse yet, you are trying to frame your bigotry as love and care, the same way homophobic Christians claim they “love and care about gay people.”
There is no such thing as a “politically neutral” position. That would imply that there is some perfect center between different views, as if political viewpoints can be narrowed down to a 2-dimensional line with “right” & “left.” All views have implications for society, and everybody falls into different varying categories and schools of thought, even if they aren’t aware of it.
Claiming that you don’t means either you are either very ignorant to political theory and philosophy, or you are deliberately being obtuse out of some false sense of moral/intellectual superiority.
Inform yourself, or if you’re a bigot, just be open about it and stop pretending you’re somehow magically above or outside of political/social biases.
You’re not listening to anything I’m saying, so I’m not really interested in continuing.
I’ve been extremely charitable to you despite your offensive commentary with other users and myself, I’ve made a half-dozen points in my other comments and you haven’t engaged with any of them.
You’re either supremely ignorant or you are a blatant transphobe trying to pretend you’re confused and innocently curious.
I’ve given you resources to get informed, if you’re a genuine person you’ll follow them. If not, then your question of why you’re constantly getting banned from inclusive communities has been answered.
So, the goal of treatment is not to simply reduce dysphoria. It’s mainly to address their many times higher rate of suicide. The treatment that has been found to be most effective is medical transition.
It’s not some cosmetic thing you can just go out and get. It requires doctors, and is very much considered a strong intervention only pursued when it is necessary, similar to having your stomach stapled for dealing with obesity. If you went to your doc and wanted a stomach stapling, there would be a lot you would have to go through first, to make sure such a drastic treatment was really necessary. Same with a transition.
The issue becomes then, how to treat these rare cases in our society after the medical intervention is done. Which bathroom, can they play sports, stuff like that.
I think that instead of both sides yelling at each other. There needs to be a discussion around this from both. When people stop talking to each other is when problems start to happen.
By “both sides” you mean the patient and their doctor, right? They’re the only two sides who should be involved in medical decisions.
You’re allowed to disagree, but you don’t get a say in someone else’s health, especially when you clearly don’t have any background or knowledge of the field. You’re just someone who doesn’t understand thinking they know more than the experts. You don’t.
transgender people get treatment for it all the time. For most of these, that treatment is called transitioning – medically, socially, or both. Sure some people may realize that transitioning isn’t correct for them and that is why there is so much gatekeeping. You can’t change it anymore than you can make a gay person straight.
From my perspective trans people just want people to stop weaponizing the government against them. It’s just the latest bs moral panic to keep people distracted on culture war nonsense instead of actually trying to change anything of substance for the better.
It means that social media and now some public institutions enable transgenders to not seek mental health support for their gender dysphoria, and continue to act out. It’s really sad and I want them to get help.
Don’t really see how you have come to that conclusion. Lots of institutions in conservative states are making it harder for trans people to get treatment rather than the inverse. Honestly this reads more like concern trolling.
It sounds like you have misconceptions about what the best practice medical treatment is for trans people. Allowing people to present how they desire and be their true selves is what alleviates dysphoria.
There’s a big difference between “I wouldn’t choose that,” and “They should be prevented by force from choosing that.”
What you’re looking for is a hate group. You can advocate not just judicial rulings limiting the freedom of minority groups, but for disposing of the minorities once and for all. If that’s too extreme then you’ll just need to tolerate them. Be better than those that didn’t tolerate your hatred.
There’s been no rulings granting a transgender rights greater than another. It’d have been global news, the consequences of which would still be cascading through the judicial system.
So, when this transgender person was granted what may have been, after an arduous battle, equality in one situation, you disagreed.
What defines humans from other animals is complex communication and it’s derivatives. I need not know the transgender person, be transgender myself, or even have a gay friend to feel basic human sympathy and empathy for them. That’s the minimum human response: neutrality, equality. Anything less is animalistic hatred.
Edit: I’ve passed judgement on just this perspective you hold, not on you as a person. If I didn’t believe you valuable I’d not have invested the time to explain why I expect more and believe you capable.
This post reminds me of an old adage I heard about driving. “Everyone that drives slower than me is an idiot, and everyone that drives faster is a maniac”
As others are saying, your middle ground is someone else’s extreme.
Well I was 2 day banned from Reddit saying I disagree with a ruling that was in favour with a transgender person and that I don’t agree with the ideals of transgenders.
I got a 2 day ban for harassment and abuse, appealed it as it was not, and then got a permaban.
“…that I don’t agree with the ideals of transgenders.”
Ah, there it is. Has the same vibes as, “I don’t have a problem with black people, just black culture.”
And what “ideals” are you taking issue with? You mean how trans folks want to be treated equally and fairly? Or maybe how trans folks want to raise awareness of violence across the world towards them? Or maybe how trans folks would like people to respect their pronouns, the exact same way people have been doing for centuries with nicknames and preferred names?
I’m talking about being able to discuss things like that without being banned to a certain extent. Example: I disagree with trans people “ok”. I want every trans person dead “not ok, ban”
You can discuss trans issues all over the place. Trans folks and allies in thousands of forums, websites, and physical locations like diversity centers at universities will happily provide you with reading materials to learn about trans issues and larger LGBT+ issues.
What people won’t tolerate is bigotry and hate. You can disagree with trans folks about all kinds of things, just like anyone else in the world, but nobody is going to tolerate you questioning their identity or whether or not they should have the same rights as anybody else.
The fact that you keep treating trans folks and their views as a universal collective means one of three things:
If it’s the first, then you’re a bigot who doesn’t think trans folks should be treated fairly and equally in society.
If it’s the second, you’re also a bigot and just trying to hide it.
If it’s the third, you need to start reading and listening to LGBT+ content and learn about social issues from them and their lived experience. Go to a site like glaad.org and start reading there. You can also go to your local library and ask for the LGBT+ section, they will usually have materials and content there that will be informative. Also, any major college/university will have a diversity center or club, go there and ask them for good starter material for getting informed on LGBT+ issues.
Thanks for the response.
I don’t hate transgender people, what I do hate (I mean that word) is that we enable gender dysphoria and not help them get treatment for it. The way that we promote it, kinda bothers me as I see it as enabling behavior. I actually feel sorrow and pain for them, as they are the ones suffering the most with no idea what is going on inside their mind. I will note on the record, condoning violence, abuse or hate towards them. No human being who has not committed atrocities deserves that.
I do not dog whistle because I have no one to whistle to. I am not left wing and I am not right wing. I have no political label because I choose not to subscribe to tribal banter. Call me a modern Richard Stallman.
You are literally the “enlightened centrist” stereotype, and you are talking nonsense about trans treatment. Despite the vast majority of research showing that gender affirming care has extremely high success rates and almost all trans folks not regretting transitioning, you apparently refuse to accept that.
Worse yet, you are trying to frame your bigotry as love and care, the same way homophobic Christians claim they “love and care about gay people.”
There is no such thing as a “politically neutral” position. That would imply that there is some perfect center between different views, as if political viewpoints can be narrowed down to a 2-dimensional line with “right” & “left.” All views have implications for society, and everybody falls into different varying categories and schools of thought, even if they aren’t aware of it.
Claiming that you don’t means either you are either very ignorant to political theory and philosophy, or you are deliberately being obtuse out of some false sense of moral/intellectual superiority.
Inform yourself, or if you’re a bigot, just be open about it and stop pretending you’re somehow magically above or outside of political/social biases.
I never said I’m enlightened, nor do I give myself that title. Why are people quick to label on here?
You’re not listening to anything I’m saying, so I’m not really interested in continuing.
I’ve been extremely charitable to you despite your offensive commentary with other users and myself, I’ve made a half-dozen points in my other comments and you haven’t engaged with any of them.
You’re either supremely ignorant or you are a blatant transphobe trying to pretend you’re confused and innocently curious.
I’ve given you resources to get informed, if you’re a genuine person you’ll follow them. If not, then your question of why you’re constantly getting banned from inclusive communities has been answered.
And he doesn’t consider gender affirming care as treatment!
So, the goal of treatment is not to simply reduce dysphoria. It’s mainly to address their many times higher rate of suicide. The treatment that has been found to be most effective is medical transition.
It’s not some cosmetic thing you can just go out and get. It requires doctors, and is very much considered a strong intervention only pursued when it is necessary, similar to having your stomach stapled for dealing with obesity. If you went to your doc and wanted a stomach stapling, there would be a lot you would have to go through first, to make sure such a drastic treatment was really necessary. Same with a transition.
The issue becomes then, how to treat these rare cases in our society after the medical intervention is done. Which bathroom, can they play sports, stuff like that.
I think that instead of both sides yelling at each other. There needs to be a discussion around this from both. When people stop talking to each other is when problems start to happen.
By “both sides” you mean the patient and their doctor, right? They’re the only two sides who should be involved in medical decisions.
You’re allowed to disagree, but you don’t get a say in someone else’s health, especially when you clearly don’t have any background or knowledge of the field. You’re just someone who doesn’t understand thinking they know more than the experts. You don’t.
transgender people get treatment for it all the time. For most of these, that treatment is called transitioning – medically, socially, or both. Sure some people may realize that transitioning isn’t correct for them and that is why there is so much gatekeeping. You can’t change it anymore than you can make a gay person straight.
What does that even mean?
From my perspective trans people just want people to stop weaponizing the government against them. It’s just the latest bs moral panic to keep people distracted on culture war nonsense instead of actually trying to change anything of substance for the better.
It means that social media and now some public institutions enable transgenders to not seek mental health support for their gender dysphoria, and continue to act out. It’s really sad and I want them to get help.
Don’t really see how you have come to that conclusion. Lots of institutions in conservative states are making it harder for trans people to get treatment rather than the inverse. Honestly this reads more like concern trolling.
I don’t live in the USA, but that’s why I’d never vote for them.
Ok, so what institutions from your area do you feel block trans people from getting medical care?
I never said that , I said gender dysphoria is being enabled instead of being encouraged to seek treatment.
It sounds like you have misconceptions about what the best practice medical treatment is for trans people. Allowing people to present how they desire and be their true selves is what alleviates dysphoria.
I thought there was a mental health component in the preparation/decision process prior to transitioning.
That’s like, 90% of it
So OP lives in a place where this isn’t the case? I understand being upset about that.
There’s a big difference between “I wouldn’t choose that,” and “They should be prevented by force from choosing that.”
What you’re looking for is a hate group. You can advocate not just judicial rulings limiting the freedom of minority groups, but for disposing of the minorities once and for all. If that’s too extreme then you’ll just need to tolerate them. Be better than those that didn’t tolerate your hatred.
No I am not. I never said I hate transgender people. you are not putting words in my mouth
There’s been no rulings granting a transgender rights greater than another. It’d have been global news, the consequences of which would still be cascading through the judicial system.
So, when this transgender person was granted what may have been, after an arduous battle, equality in one situation, you disagreed.
What defines humans from other animals is complex communication and it’s derivatives. I need not know the transgender person, be transgender myself, or even have a gay friend to feel basic human sympathy and empathy for them. That’s the minimum human response: neutrality, equality. Anything less is animalistic hatred.
Edit: I’ve passed judgement on just this perspective you hold, not on you as a person. If I didn’t believe you valuable I’d not have invested the time to explain why I expect more and believe you capable.
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