• TheFonz@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    I want lefties to be politically effective, but right now all we care about is empty rhetoric. You’re the prime example of that. Instead of being concerned with engaging and constructing good arguments, you spent half the time criticizing my motivations. Because that’s all we are amounting right now is living up to the meme of ‘hot’ air and no substance. So we come with asinine statements like:

    Biden should just pause Israel because Obama was able to reverse Cuba

    and the moment someone points how stupid this is you went straight to

    WHY YOU LOVE GENOCIDE!!!

    We gotta do better (and i don’t care if this sounds like tone policing). I’m sick of the fake moral indignation. I want people to start thinking about being politically effective and actually changing the discourse towards what can be accomplished.

    • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      right now all we care about is empty rhetoric. You’re the prime example of that.

      In what world is “stop providing weapons and political cover for a genocide” empty rhetoric?? Do you think reasonable demands automatically become unreasonable or “empty” if the recipient is stubborn enough? Or are you arguing either in bad faith or with very little thought?

      Instead of being concerned with engaging and constructing good arguments, you spent half the time criticizing my motivations.

      First you claim that I and everyone else on the left only have empty rhetoric and then you complain that I don’t construct more versions of an argument that’s self-evident. Pick a lane to be wrong in, please.

      As for your motivations, the only reasons why I ever touched on them was to try and make sense of why you’d ever make such nonsensical arguments in spite of seemingly being capable of reason.

      Besides, you complain a lot about me having the audacity to question your motivations after yourself claiming that everyone on the left only criticizes the US participation in the ongoing genocide to dunk on Biden 🙄

      Because that’s all we are amounting right now is living up to the meme of ‘hot’ air and no substance.

      No need to refer to yourself in the third person. You’re sounding plenty pompous and self-important already.

      asinine statements like:

      Biden should just pause Israel because Obama was able to reverse Cuba

      Another ridiculous strawman. I never said anything resembling that and you know it.

      and the moment someone points how stupid this is you went straight to

      WHY YOU LOVE GENOCIDE!!!

      Again, I did not. Do you want me to leave you and your army of strawman alone so you can have your argument without me interrupting?

      and i don’t care if this sounds like tone policing

      Nah, Neoliberals like you and Biden DO love yourselves some policing…

      I’m sick of the fake moral indignation

      There you go accusing me of faking it again. That’s still false and also hugely hypocritical given how much you’re complaining about ME questioning YOUR motivations 🤦

      I want people to start thinking about being politically effective and actually changing the discourse towards what can be accomplished

      And I want apparatchiks like yourself to stop pretending that everything that your Dear Leader actively chooses not to do is automatically impossible.

      Giving up on your principles the moment the authority figures from your “team” resist isn’t being effective. It’s being needlessly submissive and demanding that others follow your meek example is authoritarian bullshit.

      • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        more vacuous shit:

        stop pretending that everything that your Dear Leader actively chooses not to do

        Giving up on your principles

        being needlessly submissive

        are you a highschooler? Because that would explain a lot…

        • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Again with the Alex Jones style out of context quoting bullshit. Go yell about gay frogs if you want to imitate that fundamentally dishonest blowhard.

      • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        here is an example of your empty rhetoric:

        sure as hell isn’t PANDERING! What the fuck is wrong with you??

        Typical apologist tactic

        PRETENDING to care about the brutal slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent civilians

        deflecting to your conspiracy theory

        shows that YOU don’t care enough about Palestinian lives

        give me a fucking break.

        • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Those are all taken out of context and make perfect sense WITH context. This is Faux News level distortion if not downright Alex Jones lunacy 🙄

          • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            no. its just you morally loading every statement so that you can grandstand. And you do it in almost every thread I’ve seen you in. Try, as an exercise, to sometime engage with someone’s arguments (just one time) without invoking any pejorative or dramatic virtuous invocations. You might find a new world is waiting for you- a wold where dialog can flow and thoughts can be exchanged. I’ll be waiting for you there when you’re ready.

            • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              its just you morally loading every statement so that you can grandstand. And you do it in almost every thread I’ve seen you in.

              Nope. I sometimes use grand words for accuracy or emphasis, but never disingenuously like you’re doing right now. Grandstanding is EMPTY posturing, not emphatically saying true and important things.

              Since you obviously don’t know the difference, here’s a short primer:

              When a Republican says that they’re being silenced by the government during a prime time TV appearance to promote their new book, that’s grandstanding.

              When a progressive who doesn’t take corporate PAC money emphatically says that billionaires and their corporations have too much power over society, that’s not grandstanding.

              Do you understand it now or do you need me to find a video explaining it with puppets?

              Try, as an exercise, to sometime engage with someone’s arguments (just one time) without invoking any pejorative or dramatic virtuous invocations.

              I do that every time. I only get snide and sarcastic about it once it’s clear that the other person is not engaging in good faith and/or ignoring something I already explained because it doesn’t fit their narrative.

              You might find a new world is waiting for you- a wold where dialog can flow and thoughts can be exchanged. I’ll be waiting for you there when you’re ready.

              And there’s some more of that hypocrisy from the same person who excused ME of grandstanding just a few sentences earlier 🤦

              Are you SURE you’re not a Republican? Even the worst neoliberals usually aren’t THAT blatantly hypocritical…

              • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                I’m not the one constantly loading every phrase with all the virtuous condemnation diarrhea because I can actually engage with arguments without attacking the character of the author.

                Attack the idea-not the people.

                • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  Attack the idea-not the people.

                  That would have been a LOT easier to take seriously if it hadn’t been appended to a comment consisting entirely of baseless personal attacks 😂

                  • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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                    5 months ago

                    Also, at no point did I fucking defend Biden. I just called out your stupid analogy about Cuba. Seems like you just had all the insults ready to deploy and were never interested in the argument.