Fun fact: Torx screwdrivers are compatible with Torx Plus screws, but Trox Plus screwdrivers are only compatible with Torx screws that are one size larger

  • weeeeum@lemmy.worldEnglish
    91·
    5 months ago

    I repair a lot of tech and I have never seen torx other than the standard, and security version. And security torx drivers are compatible with regular torx

    • Hugh_Jeggs@lemm.ee
      10·
      5 months ago

      Use torx all the time on not only building sites, but in machinery repair too.

      There’s only one type of torx and I think OP is winding us up :)

      Edit - ha ha oh my fucking god. So it turns out the patent for torx expired in 1990. No change for us in Europe, we’re still mostly using the original design.

      Not so much for the yanks. Textron, the original patent holder, realised it’d be faaaar more profitable to “licence” slightly improved designs and try to phase out the original

      Enjoy your torx my euro friends, and have a giggle at the seppos paying for a fucking screw head lol

      Greed to the point of mental illness 😂

      • renzev@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
        21·
        5 months ago

        There’s only one type of torx

        There isn’t. There’s Torx, Torx Plus, and Torx Paralobe. See here for more details: https://www.semblex.com/en/pdf-files/technology-files/torx-paralobe-pdf/ . Plus there’s also the ttap and tamper-resistant variants shown in the meme.

        As other people have mentioned, Torx screwdrivers are forwards compatible with Torx Plus and Torx Paralobe. But the screwdrivers for the newer standards are not backwards compatible with older screws.

        Similarly, Tamper-Resistant Torx screwdrivers can be used on regular Torx screws. But Tamper-Resistant Torx Plus screwdrivers cannot be used on regular Torx Plus screws – it’s a completely different shape!

        If you’re in a professional setting where you order high-quality screws and drivers in bulk directly from a manufacturer, I’d imagine that this isn’t much of an issue. But if you’re a hobbyist or just need to repair something in a domestic setting, the three different torx variants plus the other non-torx hexalobular screws (WA drive, Polydrive, T-Star Plus) can cause quite a bit of confusion. Anecdotally, I have a set of what I thought were really low-quality Torx bits. Turns out, they’re actually good-quality Torx Plus bits that by design don’t fit my Torx screws.

    • HootinNHollerin@lemmy.world
      5·
      5 months ago

      Torx plus is getting more common and you can use a torx bit on them still, and superior to torx IMO. I bet you’ve seen since but didn’t notice the difference. As a machine designer it’s my preference but I don’t often for cost

    • Annoyed_🦀 @monyet.cc
      4·
      5 months ago

      I assume all those are proprietary temper resistant, tool for it will be expensive so not many tool shop gonna have it.

      • scrion@lemmy.world
        15·
        5 months ago

        Not really. A solid set for security Torx is available for like $20 from reputable brands. Naturally, you can get higher quality sets and sets that add other security bits, but you still won’t land in an unacceptable price range even for private use, let alone a pro shop.

    • unalivejoy@lemm.eeEnglish
      2·
      5 months ago

      Security torx is actually very weak. If you don’t have the security bit, you can break it with a flat head and turn it into a normal torx.

    • JustAnotherRando@lemmy.world
      25·
      5 months ago

      How do you feel about square drive? I’m no carpenter, just someone that’s done enough work around the house, but I’ve found that Torx are the best option but square is a close second (but I don’t think I’ve used them in any especially high torque situations, and they may fall short there).

        • thawed_caveman@lemmy.world
          4·
          5 months ago

          So square is a close second in terms of quality, while being vastly simpler and cheaper to manufacture. Seems to me like i’d prefer square.

          Also i’d be terrified of getting dirt in a torx screw, good luck cleaning it to make it usable again. Though i haven’t actually had this problem personally so it’s just a hunch

          • Betty_Boopie@lemmy.world
            11·
            5 months ago

            I have torx all over my mountain bike that gets caked in dirt, a little bit of water and a pick gets them usable in seconds. I could argue that hex is superior to square but they’re both worse than torx so who really cares.

          • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
            7·
            5 months ago

            Torx, hex, and square/Robertson all require broaching, generally with a rotary broach. The manufacturing process is basically identical, though the manufacturing of the machine tools varies slightly.

    • ThrowawaySobriquet@lemmy.world
      22·
      5 months ago

      Torx should be the default over Phillips for sure. Phillips is fine for shit like access panels or screw terminals. Slotted is useless for anything but the adjustment on pots and thermostats. Robertson is just a proto-torx. Everything else either exists to make someone money or is a bolt

    • Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee
      15·
      5 months ago

      Fellow contractor here. Torx or go home. Drywall screws are the only exception I’m willing to make.

    • saltesc@lemmy.world
      3·
      5 months ago

      And a set of Allen keys usually saves a trip to the hardware store if you’re missing the right size Torx bit.

    • BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works
      32·
      5 months ago

      LOL sure, good one… Only time that square abomination is the answer is if the question is “what do you get if you put a toddler in charge of designing a poor knockoff unbrako head?”

      TEAM TORX REPRESENT!

    • renzev@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
      16·
      5 months ago

      I’m not canadian, so I don’t have a lot of experience with robertson. But from the limited experience that I do have, I would rate it 10/10.

      What would you recommend for smaller screws (e.g. for electronics)? As far as I know, there aren’t smaller sizes of robertson like there are with torx?

      • brap@lemmy.world
        13·
        5 months ago

        Pozidrive has real nice engagement and doesn’t cam out like Phillips does. And JIS drivers do a better job in Phillips than Phillips ones do.

        • HakFoo@lemmy.sdf.org
          10·
          5 months ago

          After wrecking some JIS screws on a vintage reciever, I bought a nice Vessel-brand JIS driver set, and use it for all my crosshead needs.

          • Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works
            7·
            5 months ago

            I’ve driven tens of thousands of pozidrive 2/3 screws into timber with an impact driver. For whatever reason my experience is the diametric opposite of yours. Big up the Pozidrive massive.

            • Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee
              3·
              5 months ago

              It’s probably because of the impact driver. The bit seats back into the bottom of the slot between every impact. This doesn’t happen with normal drivers.

              • Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works
                1·
                5 months ago

                People (try to) use a drill driver as opposed to an impact driver? Wow. I now understand why they could have a grim experience… thanks.

        • Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee
          1·
          5 months ago

          Philips doesn’t cam out that easily either. Most people just don’t realize there’s three common sizes.

          • hydrospanner@lemmy.world
            1·
            5 months ago

            Philips doesn’t cam out that easily either.

            I mean…that’s an inherently subjective statement.

            But more objectively, regardless of how easily, it’s still the worst of the available options.

        • RubberElectrons@lemmy.world
          1·
          5 months ago

          Yeah but JIS for screws/bolts has been abandoned by the Japanese govt as of… 2005?

          My JIS screwdrivers are fantastic, not easy to torque out on a regular Phillips screw. Stick with the “vessel” brand.

          E: I can’t find anything more than discussion about it, nothing official. Sorry for the wrong info, looks like JIS screws are still alive.

    • HootinNHollerin@lemmy.world
      1·
      5 months ago

      Its flaw is that you can only get to it in 90deg increments. When the screw is in a hard to reach place that will drive you crazy

  • iAvicenna@lemmy.world
    26·
    5 months ago

    the worst is not when the screwdriver is fucked but the screw is. That is some huge pain in the ass

        • 𝕾𝖕𝖎𝖈𝖞 𝕿𝖚𝖓𝖆@lemmy.worldEnglish
          8·
          5 months ago

          Fun fact: There are plenty of times a screw that looks like a Philips head is also compatible with a square drive. I’ve mostly seen this on electrical outlets and Ikea furniture.

          I don’t know why Robertson/square drives aren’t more common. They’re stable and they resist stripping and rounding.

        • Test_Tickles@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
          5·
          5 months ago

          Robertson is the proto-torxs. It is a vast improvement over Phillips but has a tendency to snap the head off due to the increased amount of torque you can apply. Torxs maintains the amount of torque that a Robertson can apply, but adds some material back to the head giving it a little extra strength.
          It’s really unfortunate that the greed of Robertson and Ford got in the way of such a vastly superior design.

      • iAvicenna@lemmy.world
        4·
        5 months ago

        wait really? I would imagine those small corners would easily get flattened compared to something with deeper ridges like philips

        • SparrowRanjitScaur@lemmy.world
          3·
          5 months ago

          Phillips strips way, way easier than Torx. Stripping generally happens when a screwdriver cams out, or pops out of the screw. Here are some excerpts from Wikipedia of Torx vs Phillips.

          The hexalobular socket screw drive, often referred to by the original proprietary brand name Torx ( /ˈtɔːrks/) or by the alternative generic name star drive, uses a star-shaped recess in the fastener with six rounded points. It was designed to permit increased torque transfer from the driver to the bit compared to other drive systems. The drive was developed in 1967[44] by Camcar Textron.[45] Torx is very popular in the automotive and electronics industries because of resistance to cam out, and extended bit life, as well as reduced operator fatigue by minimizing the need to bear down on the drive tool to prevent cam out.

          And Philips on the other hand:

          The Phillips screwdriver design has a tendency to cam out during operation due to angled contact surfaces which create an axial force pushing the driver out of the recess as torque is applied. Despite popular belief,[2] there is no clear evidence that this was a deliberate design feature. When the original patent application was filed in 1933, the inventors described the key objectives as providing a screw head recess that (a) may be produced by a simple punching operation and which (b) is adapted for firm engagement with a driving tool with “no tendency of the driver to cam out”.

          I’m not sure about Allen. It doesn’t cam out very much, but it does still strip a lot easier than Torx. Probably due to the smaller contact points.

          • hydrospanner@lemmy.world
            3·
            5 months ago

            Well said.

            And with the hex/Allen, it’s the small contact points as well as the smaller volume of material that needs to be deformed or removed before slippage can occur, as well as the angle of force on the contact point.

            With a hex, the contact point and direction are such that the tool is effectively trying to scrape off material at an angle, and if/when it succeeds even a little bit, it’s now much more prone to fail.

            With a Torx, the contact area might still be small, but it’s being applied to the lobe in a more perpendicular direction, so rather than a scraping failure, it’s more of a force that is pushing directly against steel instead of scraping. Not that it can’t fail, but the route to failure is significantly less likely.

        • Maalus@lemmy.world
          1·
          5 months ago

          Yeah, it was made with torque in mind (like, it’s in the name lol). For smaller screws using an impact, you can expect to break the screw before you strip the torx on top. And by smaller I don’t mean tiny, more like M4, M5

      • uis@lemm.ee
        1·
        5 months ago

        Maybe because different material? Obviously CrV steel won’t get fucked like chinesium, no matter the shape.

  • Lizardking27@lemmy.world
    25·
    5 months ago

    Lmao you’ve clearly never met Philips.

    And if you’re advocating slotted screws (flathead) you’ve already lost.

    Torx is supreme. The end.

  • JadenSmith@sh.itjust.works
    23·
    5 months ago

    Useful tip: with security torx screws, with the little nub in the centre, if you get a small flathead screwdriver to jam in there and wiggle a bit, that centre bit will snap off without much difficulty.
    You should be able to use a regular Torx screwdriver bit after that.

  • Cobrachicken@lemmy.world
    22·
    5 months ago

    I have to admit that each time I saw a torx security screw on a case I had to open (looking at you, Compaq) this made me so angry that I used to punch the middle pin away with a flathead screwdriver, and replace the screw with a regular one later. This was in those past times I did not have a fuckton of assorted torx bits in a gigantic case…

    • NaoPb@eviltoast.orgEnglish
      3·
      5 months ago

      Didn’t Compaq use to have those torx with a slit in them where you could put a flathead screwdriver in the slit part?

        • NaoPb@eviltoast.orgEnglish
          4·
          5 months ago

          Yes I’ve always referred to them as Compaq screws but mainly because I personally saw them on Compaq first. I think HP bought Compaq at some point and that might explain why they are used on both brands. Don’t know which brand started using them first.

          I would have rather had they just used Phillips screws but as far as weird screwheads go these aren’t too bad.

          At least the good thing about them is the threads are standard and they can be replaced with a Phillipshead case screw just as well.

    • ASeriesOfPoorChoices@lemmy.world
      3·
      5 months ago

      I’m with you. I’ve replaced all the torx screws on my Dell with Philips head screws because fuck you Dell. (all the screws inside were already Philips)

  • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
    17·
    5 months ago

    I’m Jewish, so I’m going to have to go with the tamper-resistant Torx when I need to use screws on myself.

    Edit: A troll flagged this as antisemitic, so apparently I hate my own ethnicity?