Thanks for taking the time to write. I wrote in a different thread here that I do not find male bodies attractive and that I had never met a transfem whose body I found attractive. I am a big fan of a full, curvy female body. I am absolutely not interested in penises and I have no interest in masculine faces or bodies. Saying that I am exclisively interested in cis women is a good starting point. I’m not interested in the heroin chic supermodel look with no hips and chiseled faces. Scarlett Johansson and Anna Kendrick are both absolutely gorgeous. I like Scarlett Johansson’s body but I don’t like Anna Kendricks’. I find Jamie Clayton very pretty but I’m not sexually attracted to her body. I don’t hate trans women and I don’t fear trans women. My limited experience (friends with two transfems for over 50 years and one transmasc for over 10 years) and interactions with several trans coworkers and adjacent people has reinforced that I have no sexual attraction to any of the trans women I have encountered. I wouldn’t react violently to a proposition from a trans woman any more than I would from a gay man. I would, and have several times said, “I’m flattered but I’m not interested.” then I go on as though nothing had happened. I don’t discount the idea that a trans woman with a feminine face, a curvy feminine body with wide hips, natural breasts, good mental health, and a great personality could catch my eye and end up in a relationship but I have never seen that combination in a transfem.
Labelling someone who is so obviously an ally a transphobe does not help the cause of understanding.
Yes saying that you’re exclusively attracted to cis women is an easy short hand.
I think OurToothbrush is frustrated with the erasure of transwomen that you fail to identify as trans.
I think when you said:
I had never met a transfem whose body I found attractive.
You don’t actually know if you’ve ever found a trans-woman attractive because you don’t know the birth details of every women you’ve ever found attractive. Some of them could be trans.
It’s not something I was particularly cognizant of either before seeing OurToothbrush’s reaction.
I think I would have trouble getting it up for a blow job from a smoking hot women after I learned she had a penis. I’m willing to concede that that is technically transphobic. I don’t think it changes the fact that I am an ally of the trans rights movement.
Just say you’re a cis-het male ally and I think everyone will know what you mean. It’s too bad this has been sick an ugly experience, it’s still a hell of a lot easier than gender dysphoria.
Sorry for butting in, and I fully understand if I’m completely out of line here, but can you expand on this statement?
I think I would have trouble getting it up for a blow job from a smoking hot women after I learned she had a penis. I’m willing to concede that that is technically transphobic.
Is it phobic to not be attracted to every aspect of a person? Is it racists if fiery red hair is a turn off? Is it hateful to dislike piercings? Is it so bad to not be down bad for blue eyes?
I can see how less obvious trait could lead to a frustrating situation and an appartent change in opinion, like being turned off by a dorky laugh, or a tattoo, or violent behaviour, but is it somehow hateful to not be attracted to everything about someone?
I feel like telling people that something about themselves is inherently bad isn’t any better. Maybe someone doesn’t like the colour red because they just really hate Canadians, and perhaps they would be fine with red otherwise, but are they being hateful by buying a blue blanket? What about people who just like blue? It would be great if no one hated a colour because they hate the people represeted by a flag, but forcing everybody to buy red blankets doesn’t help anything, you know?
I think the idea I’m circling here is that attractions aren’t fair, and trying to make them fair is worse. Conflating that with transphobia seems ironic. Does that make sense?
Sorry that it has taken me a long time to respond, I’ve been at the cabin, away from my phone.
Yeah the problem is that because of the history of discrimination we don’t have words for relatively harmless discriminatory tendencies. So if I were to say
I have racist tendencies
it sounds like I’m admitting to being a “capital R” racist, when what I mean is,
I was taught incorrect stereotypes by media as a child, and sometimes despite my best efforts to be egalitarian, these biases cause me to make bad judgements. I try to notice when this happens, to make sure I treat people fairly.
Yeah I’m not saying anyone is a jerk for having sexual interest only with feminine people with vaginas and boobs, I’m just saying that it’s kinda trans-erasure (and therefore technically transphobic) to say
I’m exclusively attracted to cis-women
Because a person doesn’t know the assigned birth sex of every woman they’ve ever been attracted to.
Ah, so then you’re using transphobic to mean any discrimination against a trans person, no matter how reasonable? Fair enough. I had taken it to mean discrimination primarily on the basis of being trans, rather than a basis of incompatability or circumstance despite intent; but even if the intent is good, if it causes harm it should be called out eh?
Also, good point about being attracted to some traits of a person instead of the whole. It would be very tiring and extremely odd to never be attracted to anyone unless you knew very intimate details of their life.
I think we need another word. Transphobic suggests fear or hate. I neither fear not rate trans people as I’ve made clear multiple times. If I’m not interested in having sex with men am I androphobic? I’m just not interested in trans people sexually. I’m transdisinterested, not transphobic.
Thanks for taking the time to write. I wrote in a different thread here that I do not find male bodies attractive and that I had never met a transfem whose body I found attractive. I am a big fan of a full, curvy female body. I am absolutely not interested in penises and I have no interest in masculine faces or bodies. Saying that I am exclisively interested in cis women is a good starting point. I’m not interested in the heroin chic supermodel look with no hips and chiseled faces. Scarlett Johansson and Anna Kendrick are both absolutely gorgeous. I like Scarlett Johansson’s body but I don’t like Anna Kendricks’. I find Jamie Clayton very pretty but I’m not sexually attracted to her body. I don’t hate trans women and I don’t fear trans women. My limited experience (friends with two transfems for over 50 years and one transmasc for over 10 years) and interactions with several trans coworkers and adjacent people has reinforced that I have no sexual attraction to any of the trans women I have encountered. I wouldn’t react violently to a proposition from a trans woman any more than I would from a gay man. I would, and have several times said, “I’m flattered but I’m not interested.” then I go on as though nothing had happened. I don’t discount the idea that a trans woman with a feminine face, a curvy feminine body with wide hips, natural breasts, good mental health, and a great personality could catch my eye and end up in a relationship but I have never seen that combination in a transfem.
Labelling someone who is so obviously an ally a transphobe does not help the cause of understanding.
Yes saying that you’re exclusively attracted to cis women is an easy short hand.
I think OurToothbrush is frustrated with the erasure of transwomen that you fail to identify as trans.
I think when you said:
You don’t actually know if you’ve ever found a trans-woman attractive because you don’t know the birth details of every women you’ve ever found attractive. Some of them could be trans.
It’s not something I was particularly cognizant of either before seeing OurToothbrush’s reaction.
I think I would have trouble getting it up for a blow job from a smoking hot women after I learned she had a penis. I’m willing to concede that that is technically transphobic. I don’t think it changes the fact that I am an ally of the trans rights movement.
Just say you’re a cis-het male ally and I think everyone will know what you mean. It’s too bad this has been sick an ugly experience, it’s still a hell of a lot easier than gender dysphoria.
Sorry for butting in, and I fully understand if I’m completely out of line here, but can you expand on this statement?
Is it phobic to not be attracted to every aspect of a person? Is it racists if fiery red hair is a turn off? Is it hateful to dislike piercings? Is it so bad to not be down bad for blue eyes?
I can see how less obvious trait could lead to a frustrating situation and an appartent change in opinion, like being turned off by a dorky laugh, or a tattoo, or violent behaviour, but is it somehow hateful to not be attracted to everything about someone?
I feel like telling people that something about themselves is inherently bad isn’t any better. Maybe someone doesn’t like the colour red because they just really hate Canadians, and perhaps they would be fine with red otherwise, but are they being hateful by buying a blue blanket? What about people who just like blue? It would be great if no one hated a colour because they hate the people represeted by a flag, but forcing everybody to buy red blankets doesn’t help anything, you know?
I think the idea I’m circling here is that attractions aren’t fair, and trying to make them fair is worse. Conflating that with transphobia seems ironic. Does that make sense?
Sorry that it has taken me a long time to respond, I’ve been at the cabin, away from my phone.
Yeah the problem is that because of the history of discrimination we don’t have words for relatively harmless discriminatory tendencies. So if I were to say
it sounds like I’m admitting to being a “capital R” racist, when what I mean is,
Yeah I’m not saying anyone is a jerk for having sexual interest only with feminine people with vaginas and boobs, I’m just saying that it’s kinda trans-erasure (and therefore technically transphobic) to say
Because a person doesn’t know the assigned birth sex of every woman they’ve ever been attracted to.
Ah, so then you’re using transphobic to mean any discrimination against a trans person, no matter how reasonable? Fair enough. I had taken it to mean discrimination primarily on the basis of being trans, rather than a basis of incompatability or circumstance despite intent; but even if the intent is good, if it causes harm it should be called out eh?
Also, good point about being attracted to some traits of a person instead of the whole. It would be very tiring and extremely odd to never be attracted to anyone unless you knew very intimate details of their life.
Thank you for explaining! :)
I think we need another word. Transphobic suggests fear or hate. I neither fear not rate trans people as I’ve made clear multiple times. If I’m not interested in having sex with men am I androphobic? I’m just not interested in trans people sexually. I’m transdisinterested, not transphobic.
So this boils down to the proposition that there are trans women everywhere who are indistinguishable from cis women? Maybe.