- cross-posted to:
- tumblr@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- tumblr@lemmy.world
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/18302836
I’m just picturing that robot from Star Trek (the one thinking about “this sentence is false”) going “huh” and then blowing up…
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It’s intentional and pointing out the absurdness of what the TERFs are saying.
Oooooohhhhhhh I see I get it now
Is the testosterone in the room with you right now?
Never, yes. But vagina testosterone tho
Degender most sports and separate by weight class. Perfect? No. Solves this idiotic mess of a worldwide scandal? Yes.
Now, about all the doping from Russia and China…
This doesn’t work as out of a man and woman of the same weight the man will still be stronger on average. Women have a higher body fat percentage, and less muscle in their upper body simply because they have less testosterone. You would probably have to use testosterone as a way of categorizing people in sport. It sucks but there is no other fair way I can see.
There is no “fair”. You can’t have it. Tall people usually win in basketball. Narrow builds do better in marathons. People older for their age bracket (as kids) are more likely to enter the NHL (growing up they’re bigger so they get more playing time). So yeah, whatever you do, most of us are starting with a big disadvantage at any sport, even if we put in the same effort our whole lives.
That’s life. The question is how to make rules knowing all of that.
You are quite right. Some of the great swimmers for example have unusually long arms compared to their height. Competitive sports at the level we do it now can never be fair. It arguably shouldn’t get nearly as much attention. I would argue that we should be pushing more people to do casual sports, rather than just sitting and watching spectator sports.
To add to the swimmer point, I was originally going to make a similar point based on the supposed fact that Michael Phelps has a genetic mutation that causes him to build up lactic acid at half the “normal” rate, effectively doubling his endurance.
I want to see an Olympics of average people. Just get Caryl from Accounting, Josh from Sales and Bill from Maintenance, Make it a 2 parter, with an initial games after 1 month of training (enough training to ensure they can at least compete in the event) and a bigger games after 6 months of training, and you could even do a fun event at 12 months with the next batch of randos to see how much they’ve progressed/regressed after spending 6 months intensively training.
Honestly I mostly want more people to know the kind of results you can get from just doing regular exercise, especially when you’re starting at zero. I got on my bicycle for the first time in a decade 6 months ago and struggled to make it around the block. I’m now biking 5 miles a day, and in the longer term there’s some really cool trail networks not far from me connecting cities as far as 100 miles away, so I see that as a possible end goal
I literally said it wasn’t a perfect solution, just that it would solve these silly gender scandals. I stand by it.
It would solve one gender scandal. The next one would be people complaining that there are no women in sports anymore.
And then we’d circle back around and have to segregate the genders in sports to give women a chance to compete.
And then when a woman stands out in her field, they’d start accusing her again of being a man.
A little late, but I think I have a reasonable solution to the genderless weight class classification.
Measuring the hit force of athletes for sports like boxing could work. Not sure how viable that is in real world applications, with human nature and all, but it seems reasonable to me. If the issue is men on average hit harder than women of similar builds, why not just classify by hit force instead?
Even with the same muscle mass, it appears men might be stronger in the upper body compared to women (“A Comparison between Male and Female Athletes in Relative Strength and Power Performances”, Sandro Bartolomei, et al. ) so I’m not sure checking for any one single variable would make things fair.
that’s gotta be satire
I think it’s more a reductio ad absurdum.
There is zero chance it is satire. No chance at all. No possible way it could be satire. Zilch, zero, zip.
Unpossible.
Sarcasm? on my Internet??
It’s more common than you’d think!
Ya think?
Wow, it’s almost like trying to measure and codify man- and womanhood is inherently dangerous and phobic, even to cisgendered people who don’t meet the nebulous standards set by bigots who are obsessed with other people’s genitals, and we should maybe just stop doing that and let people identify themselves however they want?
Just a thought.
Vagina Man is the hero we needed.
And his faithful sidekick, Boypussy.
And to a certain extent wanted as well
Pussyman, just a giant pussy in a cape -Stephen lynch superheroes
Babyslime is the woman who decided to have no prenatal care at all for her second pregnancy, and delivered a baby with mermaid syndrome (sirenomelia) which is linked to uncontrolled maternal gestational diabetes, and when the baby was breech and she was in labour at like 28 weeks, the obstetrician told her he had to do a C section, and she spent the rest of her time on her blog claiming she was medically raped or birth raped. She is a shitty person.
But she just reblogged Teaboot. Did Teaboot do anything awful that can be used to invalidate the point being made here?
No.
That’s okay. Just make something up. That’s what callout culture largely is anyways, people spreading rumors about people they don’t like.
The woman I mention above encouraged many women to put themselves in danger having unsupervised pregnancies, and terrorized the medical staff.
Okay. What does that have to do with the post?
I’m not saying I don’t believe you or that she hasn’t caused actual real world harm, just that it has nothing to do with the content and that callout culture is toxic and has done far more harm than good.
What relevance does that have here?
The only person I know in real life who was like that suddenly left her three kids and just disappeared off the face of the earth for months and tried to return like nothing had happened, meanwhile the father stepped up and took full custody of all of her kids (they were already in the process of divorcing so that just accelerated the matter). Granted, that family has a lot of problems, but she always stood out as being pretty…out there.
She also once invited herself over to our home for drinks, failed to console our at the time 3 month old while showing us “a trick that works 100% of the time” (which she had to find a youtube tutorial for, could not find said tutorial, then after giving up left her phone blaring ads at max volume in the kids room where we were trying to get the child to sleep) and explained to my wife at great length exactly how it was her fault that she wasn’t able to produce enough milk to feed our child.
This woman was an antivaxxer in the early 2000s which has led to the mess we’re in now, encouraged women via her blog to give birth “unassisted” (no medical care), tried to pretend her one kid was autistic for attention, tried to pretend her second kid was trans, neither of them were, and I believe has led her “autistic” child into believing they are trans so she gets cool mom points. It’s pathological. Your friend sounds the same.
I dunno I just like genitals
Car door hook hand
I’m laughing so hard I’m crying for real XD
Jesus what’s so hard about XX and XY?
One reason is because your chromosomes don’t control genital development, your hormones do. So if you’re born with XY chromosomes and your testosterone receptors don’t work then you’ll develop female genitals and a generally female physiology (minus reproductive organs).
This is all separate from gender expression obviously, but things are hard because the world is complex. If you haven’t seen or experienced this complexity in your life, that’s fine. But don’t diminish the complexity of other’s experiences just because they don’t match your own.
I was going to say this, but far more rudely. Thanks for explaining calmly!
I personally know someone like that. She’s currently raising a kid she gave birth to thanks to a donated egg and IVF. Chromosomes are useful for first order approximations, but biology is a glorious fucking mess that cares not for simple binaries.
I hope that the person you’re responding to will be able to form a new opinion after seeing these very measured and thoughtful responses. I’m really pleased with how calmly the community is handling this particular comment.
Nothing. But there are cases of men with XX, women with XY and some others like XXY or X0.
Quite a lot actually! Chromosomes aren’t a good basis for biological sex.
Credit to @jarfil@beehaw.org for where I first saw this image (and obviously original credit to the original tweeter, @RebeccaRHelm)
So we have 4 independent variable
Chromosomal sex Genetic sex Hormonal sex Cells sex
Put it all into a matrix I would love to see the population distribution across this table.
Surly we can simply define a subset of the combinations. Cos the only other solution is to simply through out the concept of gender divisions but that just ain’t gonna work.
Put it all into a matrix I would love to see the population distribution across this table.
That would be an interesting thing to see.
However, biology is still learning about human sex. IIRC last year there was a cancer study that put in question a large number of biology studies in general… because many only focused on XY cell lines, to save time, reasoning that “if it has an X, and it has a Y, then all variables are covered”. Well, turns out that XX cells don’t use both chromosomes at the same time; instead, the genes from one of the Xs get inhibited via epigenetics… but not always all of them, or in the same way, and not always on the same X. That means some genes that didn’t activate in XY cells, sometimes would in XX cells, causing different mutations and reactions to cancer medication.
As a general rule, when it comes to any science, the version you learn in grade school is extremely simplified to the point of being almost entirely useless. To draw a parallel to physics, if you ask a physicist “how many states of matter are there?”, they’d probably consider it a difficult and poorly defined question, the exact distinction between a distinct state and a subset/variant of a state is up for discussion, but any coherent model has at least 20 states. What you’re saying is the equivalent of “what’s so hard about solid, liquid and gas?”
Nothing at all
This post is talking about people born XXY or X0 (just one x chromosome and nothing else)
or people born with a mixture of XY and XX chromosomes, such as discordant chimerism
Genetic sex is not binary, its a bellcurve. This is not a theory or an idea or a matter of debate among biologists.
The only people on earth who think its only XX and XY are those who are uneducated on the topic
but now you know better!!
Can somebody please enlighten me with some numbers on the commonality of said deviations. I always assumed they made up such a small percentage it wasnt relevent same as people with 4 or 6 fingers.
How big does a minority need to be before it’s “relevant” enough to be acknowledged and its members’ rights respected? People with 4 or 6 fingers exist. People whose chromosomes don’t match their physiology exist. People whose gender identity doesn’t match their genitals exist. It doesn’t matter how many of them there are, because every single one of us is a unique minority of one.
But you asked for numbers, so I’ll give you some numbers.
According to this article, around 1.7% of people are intersex, meaning they have physiology that doesn’t fit neatly into the common conceptions of male or female. That’s close to the number of people with red hair, which is estimated to be 2% of the world population. I have never heard anyone suggest that redheads are too small a percentage to matter.
I think you were asking specifically about chromosomes, though. There’s a table in the linked article that breaks down intersex conditions by cause. The first entry is “Non-XX or non-XY (except Turner’s or Klinefelter’s)”. This refers to people with XY chromosomes whose bodies developed female characteristics (Swyer syndrome) and people with XX chromosomes whose bodies developed male characteristics (de la Chapelle syndrome). It does not include people with X, XXY, or XO chromosomes. (Those are the next two entries in the table.)
The estimated frequency for this condition is 0.0639 per 100 live births, equivalent to 0.0639% of population. That looks like a really low number, right? Surely not enough to be “relevant”! Except… There are 8.1 billion people on this planet. 0.0639% of 8.1 billion is 5,175,900 people, which is roughly the current population of New Zealand.
Remember, that is only women with XY chromosomes and men with XX chromosomes. If we include all intersex people that number rises to 140 million, which is nearly the population of Russia.
which is roughly the current population of New Zealand
To be fair, New Zealand is unfair and should thusly be excluded from all international sporting events. Especially rugby union.
I think they should be reclassified as aussies for rugby purposes.
Actually it seems they could still technically become a state.
S I M P L E
transcript (manual):
[tumblr]
It’s really simple. If you’re born with a vagina and you naturally have elevated testosterone levels, you’re a man. If you have a vagina and you take testosterone, you’re a woman. But also if you have a vagina, you’ll never be a man. But also if you have higher testosterone then you were never a woman. Woman never yes man a vagina testosterone no was an elevated. Vagina man.
