That’s such reddit logic. You assume everyone has a perfect understanding of themselves, but people have a lot of different things internally that drive them and they’re not always aware of it. When I was young I was interested in other men, and frankly, quite disgusted by it. It’s the habitat I was raised in and if you’d asked me back then, I’d have told you it was because I was a sinner. The real reason as I came to discover was indeed that I’m just gay. It took a lot of steps and discovery to get there. I’m not saying this is real, I’m just pointing out that just because your logic is correct does not mean that this person if they are real has made enough discoveries about themselves to be strictly logical.
I’m human, and I’m speaking on the issues of self discovery, a progress path we can all share as people learning who they are, so maybe you shouldn’t assume I’m stepping where I have no ground.
As for being told something made me gay, I have been. I’ve been told it was sexual assault (that did not occur) when I was young. I’ve been told it was the media and my friends. I’ve had those experiences, and yes, I know that we’re born that way now but I did not always have the space to make that discovery. I lived a life where I thought there had to be a reason because I thought it was a negative quality in myself. I hated it because I grew up around others who hated it. Insults behind closed doors, threats of violence and hate, and I agree with you that if they believed it was the reason they discovered their identity, they have more to learn. That does not mean they have learned it.
You assume everyone has a perfect understanding of themselves
The ‘understanding’ of gender is appreciating how gender is socially constructed. That requires observation of society, hence revealing of new information, hence a journey of understanding.
Your own gender is an experience, one that is even present (although not labelled) without the social norms. It’s what you experience as what you want to be and do. It would exist without the social construction of gender. You could prefer certain colours and certain toys regardless of what society says is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ for your external genitalia and designation on a birth certificate. I have known what society thinks about gender is not important to me since I first saw gender norms in the real world. I found the whole concept ridiculous. I’ve known that I am treated as male for having a penis, but am actually not interested in gender, since before I discovered terms like non-binary.
Someone saying that “you need to watch Gordon Ramsay says about cooking before you know what food you like” is ridiculous. You’ve had experiences and you prefer some of them without Gordon Ramsay. He doesn’t even need to exist.
Someone saying “you realise your gender preferences by being mocked for your micropenis” is being similarly ridiculous. Gender does not equate to external genitalia.
It’s not a ‘perfect understanding’. It’s ‘having experiences’, which everyone does.
When I was young I was interested in other men, and frankly, quite disgusted by it. It’s the habitat I was raised in and if you’d asked me back then, I’d have told you it was because I was a sinner. The real reason as I came to discover was indeed that I’m just gay. It took a lot of steps and discovery to get there.
You did have an understanding of yourself. That was scared out of you by threats. You didn’t discover that you were gay - you just knew it, because it was a feature of your experience - you discovered that other people were wrong when they told you that was disgusting.
That’s such reddit logic. You assume everyone has a perfect understanding of themselves, but people have a lot of different things internally that drive them and they’re not always aware of it. When I was young I was interested in other men, and frankly, quite disgusted by it. It’s the habitat I was raised in and if you’d asked me back then, I’d have told you it was because I was a sinner. The real reason as I came to discover was indeed that I’m just gay. It took a lot of steps and discovery to get there. I’m not saying this is real, I’m just pointing out that just because your logic is correct does not mean that this person if they are real has made enough discoveries about themselves to be strictly logical.
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I’m human, and I’m speaking on the issues of self discovery, a progress path we can all share as people learning who they are, so maybe you shouldn’t assume I’m stepping where I have no ground.
As for being told something made me gay, I have been. I’ve been told it was sexual assault (that did not occur) when I was young. I’ve been told it was the media and my friends. I’ve had those experiences, and yes, I know that we’re born that way now but I did not always have the space to make that discovery. I lived a life where I thought there had to be a reason because I thought it was a negative quality in myself. I hated it because I grew up around others who hated it. Insults behind closed doors, threats of violence and hate, and I agree with you that if they believed it was the reason they discovered their identity, they have more to learn. That does not mean they have learned it.
The ‘understanding’ of gender is appreciating how gender is socially constructed. That requires observation of society, hence revealing of new information, hence a journey of understanding.
Your own gender is an experience, one that is even present (although not labelled) without the social norms. It’s what you experience as what you want to be and do. It would exist without the social construction of gender. You could prefer certain colours and certain toys regardless of what society says is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ for your external genitalia and designation on a birth certificate. I have known what society thinks about gender is not important to me since I first saw gender norms in the real world. I found the whole concept ridiculous. I’ve known that I am treated as male for having a penis, but am actually not interested in gender, since before I discovered terms like non-binary.
Someone saying that “you need to watch Gordon Ramsay says about cooking before you know what food you like” is ridiculous. You’ve had experiences and you prefer some of them without Gordon Ramsay. He doesn’t even need to exist.
Someone saying “you realise your gender preferences by being mocked for your micropenis” is being similarly ridiculous. Gender does not equate to external genitalia.
It’s not a ‘perfect understanding’. It’s ‘having experiences’, which everyone does.
You did have an understanding of yourself. That was scared out of you by threats. You didn’t discover that you were gay - you just knew it, because it was a feature of your experience - you discovered that other people were wrong when they told you that was disgusting.