Thank you for asking a question that’s directly relevant and not just some bullshit “test of knowledge.”
I’d like to remind you once again that my “vague talking point repeated all the time with no substance,” was made by the White House.
As for “how, why, and when student loans can be discharged,” those things are all determined by laws passed by Congress. Such as the law Biden voted for which made student loans ineligible for forgiveness through bankruptcy.
Apart from having been a member of Congress for decades and actively making the problem worse, you probably intend to roll out the talking point that the smol bean most powerful man on earth is part of the executive branch and thus has no control over legislation other than the veto. I recall this was one of your “test” questions from earlier. What this neglects is that the president is influential within the party and can and does frequently work with the legislature on bills. There’s a reason why we call it “Obamacare,” even though Obama didn’t formally vote on it because he wasn’t a member of Congress.
What did the democrats get in exchange for PPP loan forgiveness? Maybe they should’ve negotiated harder to include changes to how student loans work as part of that deal. But then, many Democrats as well as Republicans had PPP loans that got forgiven, so I suppose they got something out of the deal.
the president is influential within the party and can and does frequently work with the legislature on bills
Correct. Biden has advocated and advanced numerous bills related to this. It’s quite the list. I’m not going to go over it because I already know the next talking point or buzzphrase.
those things are all determined by laws passed by Congress
Correct
Maybe they should’ve negotiated harder to include changes to how student loans work as part of that deal
Yes. Maybe the coulda/shoulda/woulda. Policy negotiations aren’t easy, esp when dems held only slim majorities in both houses. This here is the crux of discourse on social media.
WELL THEY FORGAVE PPP LOANS I DONT SO WHATS THE BIG DEAL??
It’s all conjecture intended to equivocate between the two parties and dilute the discourse. That’s all it is because it is completely devoid of the specifics in each legislation. It’s all feelings. When people are ready to open up the bills and talk policy, lets go. Lets have that discussion. But for as long as people post this asinine nonsense “WELL THEY FORGAVE PPP…” we’ll be stuck in the realm of buzzwords forever. And both sides are the same, amirite?
You’re the one who brought up student loan forgiveness as something that differentiates the democrats. Personally, I wouldn’t go around bragging about something they failed to deliver on.
I have made my point to my satisfaction. You can go off about whatever vague excuses you want. What I see is that they delivered on loan forgiveness to business owners and investors (and themselves) but not to students. You’ve yet to offer any sort of actual explanation or excuse beyond talking vaguely about how “legislation is hard.”
You wanna talk about the specifics of the legislation, go for it, I’m game. But it’s not my job to bring up excuses for the people I’m criticizing, it’s yours.
My issue is very clear: everyone is comfortable levying criticism in broad generalities. Everyone’s very comfortable painting broad strokes and talking in generalities.
No one wants to bring the receipts and talk specifics. That’s why even here, when I push back and ask for specifics you fold. We haven’t even started the discussion about student loans. We’re still nitpicking over feelings and vibes and we presentation at this point.
This whole time all you’ve been doing is posturing. You keep talking about the idea of specifics without actually talking about them. You’re trying to pass yourself off as the mature, rational authority and “adult in the room” but you can’t actually back any of it up with evidence.
From the start, you did that power play of interrogating me with random questions to test whether I was “qualified” to your satisfaction to have a discussion. Had I just gone along with it, you would’ve tricked me into acknowledging you as an authority. Now, you’re just trying to act as an authority anyway. I have no interest in that kind of bullshit, you don’t get to pretend to have made a point by playing around with social dynamics, without ever actually making one.
The fact that you’re playing these games tells me that you can’t actually back up anything you’re saying.
Nah. I used to respond to these idiotic buzz phrases with detailed and sourced responses. After a while I realized I was either talking to people that had no clue what or how US government works or they were actively engaged in spreading misinformation.
I no longer expend my energy in this manner as it’s clear that people that wake these types of declarations:
“PPP loans were forgiven so why not student loans???”
Are way. Way. Way so far off from policy and any conversation grounded in reality that it doesn’t matter what I say or show.
Really if you make a big claim like that, you should be prepared to explain and defend yourself. Call it a " power play" or gish gallop (it’s not) but own it all the way. Walk us from point A to B. Own it.
You gish galloped by throwing down a bunch of one line responses, and then expecting anyone challenging them to put a disproportionate amount of effort into refuting them.
The power play is just transparent. You treated the conversation as an examination or interrogation, with you as the examiner or judge. You were explicitly asking me things not because they were relevant, but to test my knowledge to see if I was qualified to have a conversation with. That’s a rhetorical tactic to establish dominance and control over the conversation. Of course, you never had to prove your knowledge or qualifications, but I do, because you’re the one in charge - or so you tried to frame it.
I never had any issue answering questions that were directly relevant, or with answering your questions after you answered mine, because then there was no assumption of power or authority. I don’t like such games, but I know how to recognize them and play against them.
I note that you still haven’t provided a single specific, a single indication that you know anything about what you’re talking about. It’s clear that you have neither the interest or ability to address any of my actual points. All you have is calling my qualifications into question and trying to to throw around authority that you do not have.
You love that gish gallop fallacy for some reason. Another thing you guys love is debate bro terms so you can weasel out of answering anything.
Answer the fucking question.
I don’t know what to tell you. You made the silly claim that PPP loans and student debt are equally discharged then when someone pushed back you started crying about gish galloping and “oh no, don’t interrogate me bro, you’re dominating the conversation”. Like holy shit man.
You made the claim. Own it all the way. Walk us from point a to b. How are ppp and student loans the same?
I never claimed anything you’re saying. It doesn’t matter how much you repeat it, it doesn’t make it true. Show me where I said that both loans are “equally discharged,” you literally made that up whole cloth.
If you’re going to keep playing these games, we’re done here.
Thank you for asking a question that’s directly relevant and not just some bullshit “test of knowledge.”
I’d like to remind you once again that my “vague talking point repeated all the time with no substance,” was made by the White House.
As for “how, why, and when student loans can be discharged,” those things are all determined by laws passed by Congress. Such as the law Biden voted for which made student loans ineligible for forgiveness through bankruptcy.
Apart from having been a member of Congress for decades and actively making the problem worse, you probably intend to roll out the talking point that the smol bean most powerful man on earth is part of the executive branch and thus has no control over legislation other than the veto. I recall this was one of your “test” questions from earlier. What this neglects is that the president is influential within the party and can and does frequently work with the legislature on bills. There’s a reason why we call it “Obamacare,” even though Obama didn’t formally vote on it because he wasn’t a member of Congress.
What did the democrats get in exchange for PPP loan forgiveness? Maybe they should’ve negotiated harder to include changes to how student loans work as part of that deal. But then, many Democrats as well as Republicans had PPP loans that got forgiven, so I suppose they got something out of the deal.
Correct. Biden has advocated and advanced numerous bills related to this. It’s quite the list. I’m not going to go over it because I already know the next talking point or buzzphrase.
Correct
Yes. Maybe the coulda/shoulda/woulda. Policy negotiations aren’t easy, esp when dems held only slim majorities in both houses. This here is the crux of discourse on social media.
WELL THEY FORGAVE PPP LOANS I DONT SO WHATS THE BIG DEAL??
It’s all conjecture intended to equivocate between the two parties and dilute the discourse. That’s all it is because it is completely devoid of the specifics in each legislation. It’s all feelings. When people are ready to open up the bills and talk policy, lets go. Lets have that discussion. But for as long as people post this asinine nonsense “WELL THEY FORGAVE PPP…” we’ll be stuck in the realm of buzzwords forever. And both sides are the same, amirite?
You’re the one who brought up student loan forgiveness as something that differentiates the democrats. Personally, I wouldn’t go around bragging about something they failed to deliver on.
I have made my point to my satisfaction. You can go off about whatever vague excuses you want. What I see is that they delivered on loan forgiveness to business owners and investors (and themselves) but not to students. You’ve yet to offer any sort of actual explanation or excuse beyond talking vaguely about how “legislation is hard.”
You wanna talk about the specifics of the legislation, go for it, I’m game. But it’s not my job to bring up excuses for the people I’m criticizing, it’s yours.
My issue is very clear: everyone is comfortable levying criticism in broad generalities. Everyone’s very comfortable painting broad strokes and talking in generalities.
No one wants to bring the receipts and talk specifics. That’s why even here, when I push back and ask for specifics you fold. We haven’t even started the discussion about student loans. We’re still nitpicking over feelings and vibes and we presentation at this point.
Then start it.
This whole time all you’ve been doing is posturing. You keep talking about the idea of specifics without actually talking about them. You’re trying to pass yourself off as the mature, rational authority and “adult in the room” but you can’t actually back any of it up with evidence.
From the start, you did that power play of interrogating me with random questions to test whether I was “qualified” to your satisfaction to have a discussion. Had I just gone along with it, you would’ve tricked me into acknowledging you as an authority. Now, you’re just trying to act as an authority anyway. I have no interest in that kind of bullshit, you don’t get to pretend to have made a point by playing around with social dynamics, without ever actually making one.
The fact that you’re playing these games tells me that you can’t actually back up anything you’re saying.
Nah. I used to respond to these idiotic buzz phrases with detailed and sourced responses. After a while I realized I was either talking to people that had no clue what or how US government works or they were actively engaged in spreading misinformation.
I no longer expend my energy in this manner as it’s clear that people that wake these types of declarations:
Are way. Way. Way so far off from policy and any conversation grounded in reality that it doesn’t matter what I say or show.
Really if you make a big claim like that, you should be prepared to explain and defend yourself. Call it a " power play" or gish gallop (it’s not) but own it all the way. Walk us from point A to B. Own it.
I already explained both of those things.
You gish galloped by throwing down a bunch of one line responses, and then expecting anyone challenging them to put a disproportionate amount of effort into refuting them.
The power play is just transparent. You treated the conversation as an examination or interrogation, with you as the examiner or judge. You were explicitly asking me things not because they were relevant, but to test my knowledge to see if I was qualified to have a conversation with. That’s a rhetorical tactic to establish dominance and control over the conversation. Of course, you never had to prove your knowledge or qualifications, but I do, because you’re the one in charge - or so you tried to frame it.
I never had any issue answering questions that were directly relevant, or with answering your questions after you answered mine, because then there was no assumption of power or authority. I don’t like such games, but I know how to recognize them and play against them.
I note that you still haven’t provided a single specific, a single indication that you know anything about what you’re talking about. It’s clear that you have neither the interest or ability to address any of my actual points. All you have is calling my qualifications into question and trying to to throw around authority that you do not have.
You love that gish gallop fallacy for some reason. Another thing you guys love is debate bro terms so you can weasel out of answering anything.
Answer the fucking question.
I don’t know what to tell you. You made the silly claim that PPP loans and student debt are equally discharged then when someone pushed back you started crying about gish galloping and “oh no, don’t interrogate me bro, you’re dominating the conversation”. Like holy shit man.
You made the claim. Own it all the way. Walk us from point a to b. How are ppp and student loans the same?
I never claimed anything you’re saying. It doesn’t matter how much you repeat it, it doesn’t make it true. Show me where I said that both loans are “equally discharged,” you literally made that up whole cloth.
If you’re going to keep playing these games, we’re done here.