Is this trying to claim that Americans against Trump… Shouldn’t be taken seriously? Aren’t being honest? What prejudiced thing are you claiming exactly?
I see it more communicating this idea that as other countries rightfully discuss the ramifications and impact that a fascist American leader has on them, Americans feel the need to pop in and make it about themselves and seek some kind of validation. Like, okay, cool, how about you go fix your damn fascist country then instead of seeking brownie points?
America didnt effectively clean their house for 50 years, their house is now so infested with rats that they are coming onto our property and Americans want to be involved in our discussions on our rat problems because they have it worse…
I don’t think that’s usually the message we’re trying to get across. It’s very easy to say “well they elected him, just fix it, its your own fault” because most don’t grasp the reality of the situation from the outside. A large majority of our population does not want this, even those who bought the lies before the election.
It’s not just America’s house it’s a global problem. Saying “Hello, just a reminder that We Don’t Fucking Want This” and “As bad as it looks internationally its much worse domestically” is an alarm bell, not brownie points.
The same guys fucking our country are meddling internationally with yours, but now with official government resources. If you don’t want the same thing to happen, take drastic measures. Ban AfD, cut off fascist media platforms, seize assets, whatever you have to do. As problematic as any of that sounds, risking the alternative is not worth it.
I’m not saying it’ll go this far, but if we have to fight a war and their kid gets drafted, we’re not just gonna not shoot him just because their daddy/mommy disagrees with their president. Unless they’re willing to infiltrate and spy for us, they’re basically insignificant bystanders.
The police in the US largely side with fascists. They in large part become police officers just to have power over people. No, not all police are like that, but there are always a few in every department, and “a few bad apples spoil the bunch” as they say. Police officers who try to stand up to these people get punished for it. The rot goes deep.
Our police can shoot us dead and people in most of the country will look the other way because law and order, especially if you’re not white. America has been fascist for a long time, it didn’t suddenly start under Trump.
Look at the BLM protests, they were huge, but the sentiment of half of the country was against them and there were many who fantasized about police or vigilantes making the streets run with blood. And in the end the thugs with badges are still well funded and well armed.
I know, it’s this majorly explosive issue. What are your feelings about the bomb of serious awareness you’re seeking? That pop ain’t soda today. Would you like something to help the chemistry of your emotions about this? I know there are solutions available to bring a big bang of handling this.
As an American, I truly believe we dont protest correctly. Even when theyre done violently they dont institute that much change. Were too afraid to step on the toes of our oppressors. French protests go fucking hard though. Tough to top their revolution where they paraded the corrupt and rich out into the streets to stand in line for a turn at the guillotine. If you ask me, we need to start getting a little more medieval.
It’s almost as if we don’t control the media, social media, or how other people think.
We’re stuck on this stupid train that takes directions from every idiot no matter what their direction is, like “ok now drive off that cliff!”
Not sure how powerless people change that. We’re well past the age of guillotines. At least the peasants of the past shared a common reality. With propagandists and social media we live in multiple versions of “reality” all fighting to be the “real” one…
The peasants of the past had the same weaponry as the oppressors.
Plus Europeans who have zero concept of how large the US is. France can have basically the entire country show up to protest, but that’ll never happen in the US.
Yeah I’m like an entire days drive from DC or something and I don’t have a car or money for the extremely (intentionally) limited and expensive transportation options to get there. Plus they’ve been passing the older military equipment down through agencies to the point where my Midwestern hometown of like 20k people has an APC and grenade launchers. Its not looking good unless the military stands up for us, which I have a little hope for because of this update I’ll attach, but I don’t want to hand them all the power in the vacuum that is created afterwards because as has been pointed out many times here in this thread and elsewhere, they have a huge impact on the rest of the world, in particular the global south, and the MIC as a whole is the world’s largest polluter and historically is a massive driver of suffering and subjugation abroad and at home. I am very much afraid for everyone, and I hold the value of all human lives equality. The situation has become so complex with layers of psyops, propaganda, and misinformation, plus AI, healthcare, and so on, it’s all connected and it’s all toxic and fucked up because in some way everyone in our society buys into the literal death cult that is capitalism, and the country (if not much of the world) runs on cognitive dissonance just to not collapse under the weight of all the contradictions that are required to maintain the status quo.
Update on the army:
(Obviously much of this is based on my experience and my experience is not necessarily universal, as I apparently have to point out extremely clearly every time I make a statement of opinion on Lemmy lately)
I’m someone who’s trans, who voted for Harris, who tried to make sure everyone around me understood that Trump was a fascist (it didn’t work). I’ve had way too many Europeans and Canadians try to tell me that I should be taking partial responsibility for Trump. I’ve had way too many people from Europe and Canada tell me that I should just get over it, grow up, and stop being hysterical about what’s going on, while immigrants are being rounded up and sent to totally-not-concentration-camps in Guantanamo Bay. This is called “victim-blaming” and it’s a disgusting practice and quite honestly, fuck them too at this point. If they wanna be on the wrong side of history, that’s their choice.
Imagine telling the immigrants, Jews, disabled or LGBT during the Holocaust that it was their fault that Hitler was rounding them up and putting them in concentration camps.
What an absolutely disgusting attitude and it shows the true colors of Europe and Canada. The most upsetting part is that I know that once this is all over, they’re gonna be sitting there crying crocodile tears while pretending that they knew nothing and nothing could have been done.
Edit: meanwhile I have a couple south american friends who are trying to get me to move to their respective countries because supposedly people in most south american countries don’t actually give a shit about your sexuality or gender; it’s only the corrupt-ass American puppets who give a fuck. Surprise-surprise. Also, if true, so much for the anglosphere moral superiority complex lmao. I’m very tempted to take a long vacation to visit them and test the waters.
But in the end this is only and issue that American’s can solve, but people outside the US will bear the consequences something a whole not of American’s are forgetting.
Idk how you being trans is relevant to the specific situation, maybe stop using that in irrelevant context. There are a lot of people who will take your point a bit less serious. The same gues if you use other irrelevant points, like what you ate for dinner.
Keep up the good work and keep helping to fix the mess caused by your countries citizens.
Me being trans is very relevant because, in case you haven’t noticed, the US government is trying to erase trans people. We’re currently one step away from all-out genocide, complete with concentration camps and mass graves, something which our current politicians in power have expressed an interest in multiple times. When I say we need help, I’m not saying that we need the EU to come fix our problems, I’m saying we need refuge and an escape before Trump starts finding space in Guantanamo for trans people too. We need a place to run to because our own country is threatening to disown and murder us. I would not put it past them to start “”“losing”“” people’s IDs and birth records, so they can claim false citizenship and send them to Guantanamo as “immigrants”.
This is not something I can fix. This is not something trans people can fix. This is like staring a grizzly bear in the face and expecting to be able to fight it one-on-one.
Yes I know and it is terrible, but it is terrible either way. If you personally are trans or not. Argumenting it in a different way can help and you migt even get some transfobes to get to help you. Most trans people I know (especially the older once) here in NL, had way less issues before it became something people publicly shared. But they don’t consider themselves trans, they consider themselves of the opposite sex they where born.
If people are giving up then there is almost no hope of fixing the country. There is no allied who can help the US because of the way the US positstioned itself in the past.
If needed you can start the paperwork to migrate here and you might even be able to apply for help as a refuge. In NL we already can’t house own people with the influx of refugees from different parts of the world, but I gues we make it work? Idk if I where you I would try it in all different ways to get to a country where people are more accepting of each other
(You personally can seek asylum here ofc, most EU countries’ asylum laws allow sexual persecution as reason and you’ll be protected as long as your life is in jeopardy. Just get over here)
Yeeaaaahh… You might wanna double check that because last I checked (though I may be misremembering), most anglosphere countries explicitly deny refugees from the US because the US is a “”'safe harbor"“”. Even so, though, unless there’s a guarantee that I’ll be taken seriously (which, considering a lot of what people have said to me, is unlikely), it’s not a great idea to be applying for refugee status until I have a list of places lined up because otherwise there’s a very real possibility that it’ll put a target on my back with the US government.
If you’re being sarcastic about the fact that I’m trying to make sure I’m prepared before I take the jump, fuck off. The difference is between the US government taking pot shots in the dark vs laser targeting me because I triggered one of their systems and am now on their radar. At least there’s a significant chance they’ll miss me when I’m crouching in the dark.
While you do recognize Orban, the afd, and Lukashenko, you bring them up as a way to suggest that that Americans should not ask for sympathy on Trump because they have done nothing to prevent these a other authoritarian governments from forming. Nobody is asking you or your country to step in and save America from Trump. We all know America did that to its self and has to live with it now.
But we are all living under systems in which the fascists are dominating the propaganda machine in “the west.” It is not something happening in isolated pocks in the few scenarios you list. You give whiplash by indicating both the the individual has not done anything/enough to prevent genocide and Trump and that it is also not their personal fault. But then you still say that you will support this person once they (or Americans generally) fix the threat to you. But the call is coming from within the house. They can not entirely fix the threat to you even if they managed to fix the entire us political system. It is not just their Democratic system resulting in this.
They deserve sympathy as we all do or likely will. May we all be saved from the poor decisions of our nationalal peers.
How do you expect trans folks to get there when there is a secret travel ban in place for them and they are getting their documents stolen and destroyed when they attempt to get the required passport to be able to travel? This has been going on for weeks. Its obviously only going to get harder to leave as more EOs are signed and freedoms eroded.
I now look at the American population the same way as I look at the Russian or North Korean populations. They are caught in terrible states and I support those who resist their tyrannical government. I do not, however, think their positions on global affairs have much value as they ought to be more focused on their own terrible government.
Hearing Americans tell Canadians how we should respond to Trump is falling on deaf ears.
One of the biggest superpowers in the world wasn’t captured by accident or from some grassroots stupidity. The same exact playbook is being run in nearly every developed country by the same people. You need to learn from where we failed and stem the tide.
If you don’t understand why that “position on global affairs” is important coming from the people actively being crushed by the domino, I don’t know what to say. I guess we’ll just mutually pity each other’s tyrannical governments…
Is this trying to claim that Americans against Trump… Shouldn’t be taken seriously? Aren’t being honest? What prejudiced thing are you claiming exactly?
I see it more communicating this idea that as other countries rightfully discuss the ramifications and impact that a fascist American leader has on them, Americans feel the need to pop in and make it about themselves and seek some kind of validation. Like, okay, cool, how about you go fix your damn fascist country then instead of seeking brownie points?
Dude the biggest impact is on Americans
👍
America didnt effectively clean their house for 50 years, their house is now so infested with rats that they are coming onto our property and Americans want to be involved in our discussions on our rat problems because they have it worse…
I don’t think that’s usually the message we’re trying to get across. It’s very easy to say “well they elected him, just fix it, its your own fault” because most don’t grasp the reality of the situation from the outside. A large majority of our population does not want this, even those who bought the lies before the election.
It’s not just America’s house it’s a global problem. Saying “Hello, just a reminder that We Don’t Fucking Want This” and “As bad as it looks internationally its much worse domestically” is an alarm bell, not brownie points.
The same guys fucking our country are meddling internationally with yours, but now with official government resources. If you don’t want the same thing to happen, take drastic measures. Ban AfD, cut off fascist media platforms, seize assets, whatever you have to do. As problematic as any of that sounds, risking the alternative is not worth it.
Maybe these Americans should do something about it.
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I’m not saying it’ll go this far, but if we have to fight a war and their kid gets drafted, we’re not just gonna not shoot him just because their daddy/mommy disagrees with their president. Unless they’re willing to infiltrate and spy for us, they’re basically insignificant bystanders.
Please give me working instructions for fixing this shit. Been protesting and voting for 20 years and shit only gets worse.
A protest in France looks very different than a protest in the states… all I’m saying.
Our police also are a lot different… ours is just an Abrams short of the miltary.
You understand the guy driving the Abrams is also your neighbour right?
The police in the US largely side with fascists. They in large part become police officers just to have power over people. No, not all police are like that, but there are always a few in every department, and “a few bad apples spoil the bunch” as they say. Police officers who try to stand up to these people get punished for it. The rot goes deep.
My neighbors are mostly MAGAts. So i dont think they’ll be on my side.
so send some fucking experts to us. at least make some youtube tutorials or something.
The French literally sent you a gigantic statue of a woman holding a torch. Can they get any clearer?
I’ve trying to become a giant statuesque torch-wielding woman but it’s very difficult
I got it
Do the Women’s Tiki Torch March!
Huh, that’s weird, only Nazis showed up?
Our police can shoot us dead and people in most of the country will look the other way because law and order, especially if you’re not white. America has been fascist for a long time, it didn’t suddenly start under Trump.
Look at the BLM protests, they were huge, but the sentiment of half of the country was against them and there were many who fantasized about police or vigilantes making the streets run with blood. And in the end the thugs with badges are still well funded and well armed.
And what are you going to do about it?
That face when you see acab and fuck 12 spray painted all over Lyon.
You’re right. The cops roll up and start shooting people.
Saying americans dont protest correctly isnt looking at the whole picture.
What the fuck is a correct protest? The only thing that matters is the results.
For a country that loves guns you sure don’t fucking use em unless it involves a school or strip mall. A majority of your country is just complacent.
I know, it’s this majorly explosive issue. What are your feelings about the bomb of serious awareness you’re seeking? That pop ain’t soda today. Would you like something to help the chemistry of your emotions about this? I know there are solutions available to bring a big bang of handling this.
As an American, I truly believe we dont protest correctly. Even when theyre done violently they dont institute that much change. Were too afraid to step on the toes of our oppressors. French protests go fucking hard though. Tough to top their revolution where they paraded the corrupt and rich out into the streets to stand in line for a turn at the guillotine. If you ask me, we need to start getting a little more medieval.
It’s almost as if we don’t control the media, social media, or how other people think.
We’re stuck on this stupid train that takes directions from every idiot no matter what their direction is, like “ok now drive off that cliff!”
Not sure how powerless people change that. We’re well past the age of guillotines. At least the peasants of the past shared a common reality. With propagandists and social media we live in multiple versions of “reality” all fighting to be the “real” one…
The peasants of the past had the same weaponry as the oppressors.
Plus Europeans who have zero concept of how large the US is. France can have basically the entire country show up to protest, but that’ll never happen in the US.
Yeah I’m like an entire days drive from DC or something and I don’t have a car or money for the extremely (intentionally) limited and expensive transportation options to get there. Plus they’ve been passing the older military equipment down through agencies to the point where my Midwestern hometown of like 20k people has an APC and grenade launchers. Its not looking good unless the military stands up for us, which I have a little hope for because of this update I’ll attach, but I don’t want to hand them all the power in the vacuum that is created afterwards because as has been pointed out many times here in this thread and elsewhere, they have a huge impact on the rest of the world, in particular the global south, and the MIC as a whole is the world’s largest polluter and historically is a massive driver of suffering and subjugation abroad and at home. I am very much afraid for everyone, and I hold the value of all human lives equality. The situation has become so complex with layers of psyops, propaganda, and misinformation, plus AI, healthcare, and so on, it’s all connected and it’s all toxic and fucked up because in some way everyone in our society buys into the literal death cult that is capitalism, and the country (if not much of the world) runs on cognitive dissonance just to not collapse under the weight of all the contradictions that are required to maintain the status quo.
Update on the army:
(Obviously much of this is based on my experience and my experience is not necessarily universal, as I apparently have to point out extremely clearly every time I make a statement of opinion on Lemmy lately)
Oh wow its almost like everyone is suffering and people with your shitty attitude are the problem as well.
You hit the nail on the head.
I’m someone who’s trans, who voted for Harris, who tried to make sure everyone around me understood that Trump was a fascist (it didn’t work). I’ve had way too many Europeans and Canadians try to tell me that I should be taking partial responsibility for Trump. I’ve had way too many people from Europe and Canada tell me that I should just get over it, grow up, and stop being hysterical about what’s going on, while immigrants are being rounded up and sent to totally-not-concentration-camps in Guantanamo Bay. This is called “victim-blaming” and it’s a disgusting practice and quite honestly, fuck them too at this point. If they wanna be on the wrong side of history, that’s their choice.
Imagine telling the immigrants, Jews, disabled or LGBT during the Holocaust that it was their fault that Hitler was rounding them up and putting them in concentration camps.
What an absolutely disgusting attitude and it shows the true colors of Europe and Canada. The most upsetting part is that I know that once this is all over, they’re gonna be sitting there crying crocodile tears while pretending that they knew nothing and nothing could have been done.
Edit: meanwhile I have a couple south american friends who are trying to get me to move to their respective countries because supposedly people in most south american countries don’t actually give a shit about your sexuality or gender; it’s only the corrupt-ass American puppets who give a fuck. Surprise-surprise. Also, if true, so much for the anglosphere moral superiority complex lmao. I’m very tempted to take a long vacation to visit them and test the waters.
It’s not fair to blame you that is true.
But in the end this is only and issue that American’s can solve, but people outside the US will bear the consequences something a whole not of American’s are forgetting.
Idk how you being trans is relevant to the specific situation, maybe stop using that in irrelevant context. There are a lot of people who will take your point a bit less serious. The same gues if you use other irrelevant points, like what you ate for dinner.
Keep up the good work and keep helping to fix the mess caused by your countries citizens.
Me being trans is very relevant because, in case you haven’t noticed, the US government is trying to erase trans people. We’re currently one step away from all-out genocide, complete with concentration camps and mass graves, something which our current politicians in power have expressed an interest in multiple times. When I say we need help, I’m not saying that we need the EU to come fix our problems, I’m saying we need refuge and an escape before Trump starts finding space in Guantanamo for trans people too. We need a place to run to because our own country is threatening to disown and murder us. I would not put it past them to start “”“losing”“” people’s IDs and birth records, so they can claim false citizenship and send them to Guantanamo as “immigrants”.
This is not something I can fix. This is not something trans people can fix. This is like staring a grizzly bear in the face and expecting to be able to fight it one-on-one.
Yes I know and it is terrible, but it is terrible either way. If you personally are trans or not. Argumenting it in a different way can help and you migt even get some transfobes to get to help you. Most trans people I know (especially the older once) here in NL, had way less issues before it became something people publicly shared. But they don’t consider themselves trans, they consider themselves of the opposite sex they where born.
If people are giving up then there is almost no hope of fixing the country. There is no allied who can help the US because of the way the US positstioned itself in the past.
If needed you can start the paperwork to migrate here and you might even be able to apply for help as a refuge. In NL we already can’t house own people with the influx of refugees from different parts of the world, but I gues we make it work? Idk if I where you I would try it in all different ways to get to a country where people are more accepting of each other
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This is not how a person, or country, should act.
It’s not all about you either… what kind of stupid take is this, just say you hate the people who live in America and be done with it.
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Yeah, don’t we all
Yeeaaaahh… You might wanna double check that because last I checked (though I may be misremembering), most anglosphere countries explicitly deny refugees from the US because the US is a “”'safe harbor"“”. Even so, though, unless there’s a guarantee that I’ll be taken seriously (which, considering a lot of what people have said to me, is unlikely), it’s not a great idea to be applying for refugee status until I have a list of places lined up because otherwise there’s a very real possibility that it’ll put a target on my back with the US government.
Oof, life seems hard for you.
Might not be specifically Europeans and Canadians unsympathetic to you.
If you’re being sarcastic about the fact that I’m trying to make sure I’m prepared before I take the jump, fuck off. The difference is between the US government taking pot shots in the dark vs laser targeting me because I triggered one of their systems and am now on their radar. At least there’s a significant chance they’ll miss me when I’m crouching in the dark.
Its wild how judgey this is when many EU voters are flirting with voting for fascists as well.
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While you do recognize Orban, the afd, and Lukashenko, you bring them up as a way to suggest that that Americans should not ask for sympathy on Trump because they have done nothing to prevent these a other authoritarian governments from forming. Nobody is asking you or your country to step in and save America from Trump. We all know America did that to its self and has to live with it now.
But we are all living under systems in which the fascists are dominating the propaganda machine in “the west.” It is not something happening in isolated pocks in the few scenarios you list. You give whiplash by indicating both the the individual has not done anything/enough to prevent genocide and Trump and that it is also not their personal fault. But then you still say that you will support this person once they (or Americans generally) fix the threat to you. But the call is coming from within the house. They can not entirely fix the threat to you even if they managed to fix the entire us political system. It is not just their Democratic system resulting in this.
They deserve sympathy as we all do or likely will. May we all be saved from the poor decisions of our nationalal peers.
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Edit
How do you expect trans folks to get there when there is a secret travel ban in place for them and they are getting their documents stolen and destroyed when they attempt to get the required passport to be able to travel? This has been going on for weeks. Its obviously only going to get harder to leave as more EOs are signed and freedoms eroded.
It’s you, you’re in the meme. Take a look again.
The world does not owe Americans consideration for their internal politics when their choice acts on the world stage. This is America.
It’s not a Likud genocide, it’s an Israeli genocide.
It’s a Russian invasion of Ukraine, not a United Russia invasion of Ukraine.
It’s not fascist Republican America, it’s fascist America partitioning ‘lesser’ countries and threatening to invade its former allies.
I now look at the American population the same way as I look at the Russian or North Korean populations. They are caught in terrible states and I support those who resist their tyrannical government. I do not, however, think their positions on global affairs have much value as they ought to be more focused on their own terrible government. Hearing Americans tell Canadians how we should respond to Trump is falling on deaf ears.
THIS 🚨 IS 🚨 HAPPENING 🚨 TO 🚨 YOU 🚨
One of the biggest superpowers in the world wasn’t captured by accident or from some grassroots stupidity. The same exact playbook is being run in nearly every developed country by the same people. You need to learn from where we failed and stem the tide.
If you don’t understand why that “position on global affairs” is important coming from the people actively being crushed by the domino, I don’t know what to say. I guess we’ll just mutually pity each other’s tyrannical governments…
“Hey Canadians, you should tell Trump to go fuck himself!” “Fuck you I’m not going to listen to an American!”
Dude. It’s okay to not be at the front of every line.
Ironically, that’s the point.