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ANNOUNCEMENT: defederating effective immediately from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works - Beehaw
beehaw.orghey folks, we’ll be quick and to the point with this one: ##### we have made the
decision to defederate from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works. we recognize this
is hugely inconvenient for a wide variety of reasons, but we think this is a
decision we need to take immediately. the remainder of the post details our
thoughts and decision-making on why this is necessary. — we have been concerned
with how sustainable the explosion of new users on Lemmy is–particularly with
federation in mind–basically since it began. i have already related
[https://beehaw.org/post/520044?scrollToComments=true] how difficult dealing
with the explosion has been just constrained to this instance for us four
Admins, and increasingly we’re being confronted with external vectors we have to
deal with that have further stressed our capabilities (elaborated on below). an
unfortunate reality we’ve also found is we just don’t have the tools or the time
here to parse out all the good from all the bad. all we have is a nuke and some
pretty rudimentary mod powers that don’t scale well. we have a list of
improvements we’d like to see both on the moderation side of Lemmy and
federation if at all possible–but we’re unanimous in the belief that we can’t
wait on what we want to be developed here. separately, we want to do this now,
while the band-aid can be ripped off with substantially less pain. aside
from/complementary to what’s mentioned above, our reason for defederating, by
and large, boils down to: - these two instances’ open registration policy, which
is extremely problematic for us given how federation works and how trivial it
makes trolling, harassment, and other undesirable behavior; - the
disproportionate number of moderator actions we take against users of these two
instances, and the general amount of time we have to dedicate to bad actors on
those two instances; - our need to preserve not only a moderated community but a
vibe and general feeling this is actually a safe space for our users to
participate in; - and the reality that fulfilling our ethos is simply not
possible when we not only have to account for our own users but have to account
for literally tens of thousands of new, completely unvetted users, some of whom
explicitly see spaces like this as desirable to troll and disrupt and others of
whom simply don’t care about what our instance stands for as Gaywallet puts it,
in our discussion of whether to do this: > There’s a lot of soft moderating that
happens, where people step in to diffuse tense situations. But it’s not just
that, there’s a vibe that comes along with it. Most people need a lot of trust
and support to open up, and it’s really hard to trust and support who’s around
you when there are bad actors. People shut themselves off in various ways when
there’s more hostility around them. They’ll even shut themselves off when
there’s fake nice behavior around. There’s a lot of nuance in modding a
community like this and it’s not just where we take moderator actions- sometimes
people need to step in to diffuse, to negotiate, to help people grow. This only
works when everyone is on the same page about our ethos and right now we can’t
even assess that for people who aren’t from our instance, so we’re walking a
tightrope by trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. That isn’t
sustainable forever and especially not in the face of massive growth on such a
short timeframe. > > Explicitly safe spaces in real life typically aren’t open
to having strangers walk in off the street, even if they have a bouncer to throw
problematic people out. A single negative interaction might require a lot of
energy to undo. and, to reiterate: we understand that a lot of people
legitimately and fairly use these instances, and this is going to be painful
while it’s in effect. but we hope you can understand why we’re doing this. our
words, when we talk about building something better here, are not idle
platitudes, and we are not out to build a space that grows at any cost. we want
a better space, and we think this is necessary to do that right now. if you
disagree we understand that, but we hope you can if nothing else come away with
the understanding it was an informed decision. this is also not a permanent
judgement (or a moral one on the part of either community’s owner, i should
add–we just have differing interests here and that’s fine). in the future as
tools develop, cultures settle, attitudes and interest change, and the wave of
newcomers settles down, we’ll reassess whether we feel capable of refederating
with these communities. thanks for using our site folks.
We still federate, but god knows how long that will last. They have defederated nearly 400 instances and they sound lile theyre losing the plot
400 instances? Did you mean 400 sublemmys? There’s only 192 instances in total last time I checked
They’ve defederated from a Iot of common badfaith instances on the fediverse, lot of pleroma and masto troll/fash instances - which is normaI for admins on the fediverse. Its active protection of your users from harrassment. Most mastodon instances have 200-400+ instances blocked and defederated. Its standard.
Lemmy admins may be new to the fediverse, but once the troll instances start to realise how easy it is to mess with you from the safety of their instances, you’re going to need your admins to start communicating with the long term masto admins, get their blocklists and recognise how they keep their users safe proactively rather than retroactively.
Defederation is one of the strongest defenses the federation has in terms of maintaining stability within its wider network and enforcing that admins/mods do their jobs. Its a matter of everyone seeing eye to eye and agreeing on ground rules for civility and agreeing they’re going to moderate to a decent active standard and keep control of their users. If an instance is unable to keep control of its house, or the admin goes AWOL and ends up with tons of bad faith users running amok flinging poop everywhere, then yeah they will get defederated. It can always be fixed later on with serious discussion and commitments made between the admins of instances.
But yeah every instance on the fediverse that doesnt want underage porn / nazi imagery / fascist agitators / gore / hatespeech etc getting posted continually to their users, is going to have to defederate a couple of hundred instances. The Fediverse is a lot bigger than Lemmy, and people outside of Lemmy/Kbin can all post to your instances and your threads, or even start our own threads.