The price of everything is unsustainable.
Why Millennials are destroying the ____ industry, details at eleven.
Unregulated capitalism is why all this stuff isn’t sustainable, but it’s what capitalism ends up at on a long enough timeline.
The people willing to do anything for more wealth will keep accumulating more and more, and “lobbying” for legislation that lets them make even more.
Money is finite. All those billionaires don’t make money out of thin air, they take it out of the economy.
If they do too much of that, then no one else has money to buy anything. Without a large amount of consumers, every industry gets fucked. Because the rich don’t buy enough consumer goods to make up for the other 90% of people who can’t afford it
we should have way less children: less engineers to graduate, less companies compelled to hire new workforce then less car companies to exist. there are too many mechanics and mechanical engineers in this world. i think i am suggesting depopulation at this point so that represents another angle of the subject. if ur existence is fine, why would u go out of ur comfort zone and reproduce ? at this point not reproducing serves more one own kind than anything. but also the rich need to be taxed and taxes need to be used to ease people lived and make them retire early. nothing has changed if u reproduce and create free new labour force to serve ur local capitalist located next door. look up vw: agglomerating more than 30 car brands or so, salvaged from banktrupcy. they should in fact have stayed defunct and erased from existence, and yet…
Also taxes act as a filter so that gaining wealth is based at least somewhat on merit. The way we have it now anyone born into wealth of a certain level are guaranteed to retain and grow the wealth because taxes at the high levels are so low relatively. Unfortunately the adage “the first million is the hardest” is all to true. If your rich it should be your most recent million that is hardest. The higher you get the harder it should be. Just like anything else. Its like having our major leaguers playing T-ball.
earn ur first million by merit: pay people living wages and make retirement age at 50 and fund my retirement for the next 40 years beyond 50 and earn the fuck u want idc. wealth shouldnt all be centralized. at certain point wealth need to be taxed and tax revenue should be benefit other people in form of grants or something so they could also get a taste of rich life: the purpose of living is to enjoy it, not to centralize wealth to a single person
I think there’s also something to say about what a person is actually doing with their wealth. Some people have most of that wealth tied up in the ownership of their business, re-invest the profits to grow the business and provide reasonable wages and working conditions to their employees. That’s a lot different, in my mind, than the ones that own staffed mega-yachts, spend hundreds of thousands for a 20 min trip to the edge of space and back, or buy estates across the globe while their staff rely on food stamps.
I think stronger labour regulations and better unions are a big part of the solution. Common complaint that CEOs are lining their pockets by squeezing every ounce of value possible from their staff. Mandate better working conditions, and close the loopholes like arbitrary cut-offs for benefits eligibility(make it a sliding scale, someone working 0.75 FTE should get 0.75 value of the benefits package that full-time employees would) and we’d see that concentration of wealth slow down a lot.
i hate richard brenson and jeff bezos because they did shit to humanity with their wealth; at least elon have put his money into some beneficial industries, and is allowed to enjoy extravageous endeavours: let the boy have fun by buying twitter, and trolling the world, let him get a taste of his money. also working in a fullfillment center isn’t the same as working as an engineer for spacex: that job is physically crushing and people need to be paid well, be afforded exoskeletons, be retired early, ulike an engineer who is knwoledge is much needed and there is not much physical effort expected from his side, but again pay both accordingly
When a car loan is longer than 5 years and you’re still paying $500-700 per month, yeah, it’s too expensive.
I paid for half of my car in cash and it’s still over $500 for 48-months. Pickups are damn expensive, but at least they’re versatile.
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I’ve got a sailboat, and motorcycles. If I want to move things around I can do it easily. I’m comfortable and have plenty of room as well. Just because you’re traumatized doesn’t mean I don’t have the right to own something I can afford. I drive a tractor trailer around 6 days a week so it’s not like a pickup truck is anything more than a large car.
You’re not gonna get much love on this forum for owning a pickup. Glad that you at least put it to use though.
He’s a brave man for replying honestly. Lol
My opinion is that you don’t have a right to endanger other people for your own pleasure. It’s not just him. Many, maybe even most non-car users in the US have been hit by or had near misses with these excessively huge vehicles. They are too dangerous to drive in urban areas without a good reason. In my view they should require more rigorous licensing and be taxed heavily unless used for business purposes.
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Well he does have a CDL if it makes you feel better.
Curious, what do you drive/how do you get around?
Jfc…
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Nah I’m good. Haha
Not trying to exchange mood states with you bro.
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Versatile in the sense that they do everything in a subpar way. Except if you have something from 1990s, then you should be fine for carrying power and even horsepower. Modern trucks are an engineering joke meant to exploit loopholes.
Also why the hell did you say the N-word!?
N-word? I’ve never posted that. And why are you posting irrelevant shit?
Modern pickups have grown in leaps and bounds as far as capacity. My F-150 has a carrying capacity of 1800 lb in the bed and an old F-150 would get snapped in half. It’s also a hybrid and I regularly get over 25 mpg versus pickup trucks with v8s or V6 is getting 16 or 18.
Wow. Look, don’t wanna rain on anyone’s parade because I love hybrids, but I would still not buy a truck with one if that’s all the improvement it provided. You know how expensive those batteries are to replace?
It’s a 1.4kwh battery so it’s not all that big.
So… It can carry 10 people? Isn’t that only marginally more than a minivan? What the fuck were they making the old F-150s with that they were worse than a minivan?
It’s literally in the terminology. Half ton pick up truck half ton load capacity. They just keep making the metal better. the frame stronger. Additionally I am able to tow over ten thousand pounds. You can’t do that with a minivan. You also can’t fit most motorcycles inside of a minivan. And most lawn and garden tasks tend to be pretty dirty. And i’d rather not clean out the carpets.
@HuddaBudda @const_void @Tb0n3 I know not much about pickups, but “jack of all trades master of none, often-times better than master of one.”
however, I don’t see how a normal car is any worse 99% of the time. It’s already a jack of more trades because it has more room inside. Maybe someone who hauls a lot of big loads could use a pickup.
Geez. That’s crazy. My car was bought outright 15 years ago. I can’t imagine paying monthly on a car, to me a car is like a TV, you buy what you can afford. That meant I had a lot of junkers over the years, but I’ve never had a car payment and I’m very glad for that. I feel for the people these days, because even the junker cars are expensive enough that if I had to have a car now because mine died, I’d probably have to finance.
As long as it’s not taking more than you can afford financing can have many benefits. You can get a much better vehicle than you might be able to buy cash, and you don’t have to use money that could otherwise be used to invest or get other things all at once. The cost of a car loan and a reasonable rate isn’t all that high, and if you really wanted to you can pay it off sooner.
What would the interest paid be on a loan brought to term though? It has to be thousands of dollars. I’m a cheap bastard, that’s just too much of a risk for me. As long as I have a car, I just tuck money away for when I need my next one, which hasn’t happened in 15 years once I finally got a decent one. I’m hoping I can make this thing last another 10 or 15 too, it already gets better gas mileage than almost any combustion engine vehicle, and is up there with some of the lower hybrid vehicles, so there’s really nothing in a newer car that would be better for me.
There’s calculators to find that out. At 3% for 4 years on $40,000 it would be about $2,500.
Yeesh, I could buy a lot of drugs for $2,500 xD
No but really, unless you’re driving an American car getting 15mpg, there hasn’t really been any improvements in combustion cars that warrant buying a new one imho. Modern cars on average get worse gas mileage than my car, it’s now more expensive instead of less to get a manual, the “infotainment” systems are a plague on cars, honestly should be law that all controls are on physical dials and switches… It’s just a shit show.
If I went hybrid I’d get 10-15mpg more, but $40k for 10mpg is not worth it lmao, it would take me twenty years to save half that in gas, and plug in electrics are really only for the semi-wealthy who can drop thousands of dollars on the home they own (cause no landlord gonna do it) to install a charger. So for me, there’s really no reason to get a new car anytime soon.
If they brought back the S10 and made it get 40mpg I might change my mind, I do miss having a truck, but modern ones are just gaudy shit for wannabe country boys.
Five year loans used to be scandalous twenty years ago. The goal posts always shift.
Cars are unsustainable for our planet. Even EV’s. It’s already too late to stop the damage they have caused already. The best time to transition to alternative modes of transportation was during the 70’s. The second best time is now.
evs are way worse
What do you base that on? EVs are certainly not the solution, but way worse is arguably not accurate.
lithium is not a sustainable storage solution. comment back when sodium batteries are mass produced, not just a discovery in a lab
There is far, far more lithium in the earth’s crust than we will ever need for energy storage. We’re only just now hurting for it because Tesla showed that electric cars are feasible as daily drivers which caused a huge surge in demand. We’ll catch back up in a few more years. And the third world countries that let shitty mining practices take place are what give it a bad name right now. No one wants child slaves in the Congo to mine cobalt for us so we can drive to work. US mines are being built, new processes are being invented, and new battery chemistries that rely less on rare minerals are constantly being invented and implemented.
You’re just being a sourpuss.
source: trust me bro ?
a lithium battery require also cobalt as cathode, it cant solely run on an anode
There are lots of lithium battery types that do not contain any cobalt, such as LFP that is used more and more for electric cars.
Also Sodium Ion (Na-Ion) batteries are currently in production and could be a viable alternative as the technology advances and production ramps up.
Right now Na-Ion batteries rival only the LFP type of Li-Ion battery (lithium-iron-phosphate) having a lower energy density than other Lithium chemistries. LFP is used commonly in utility power storage for its much greater safety and longevity, but it carries about 20% less power for size and weight compared to other lithium chemistries.
At present the favored battery type for EVs are Lithium types with the highest energy density. Some combine several advantages of the various Li-Ion chemistries having the highest energy density with somewhat greater safety and longevity.
Na-Ion is a new type of battery chemistry with lots of potential for improvement. They use more sustainable materials being cheaper and more abundant. If they could get the Na-Ion battery type within range of presently used Lithium technologies it would be a hugely better solution, a lot cheaper, a lot safer, and much easier on the environment.
more and more
hopefully. still, evs are quite expensive. also the charging infrastrucutre would require a metric fuckton of copper, and that would raise copper prices to silly levels, and its already pricey.
Would you say that burning fossil fuels is a sustainable solution?
When stacked against each other, I find it kind of baffling that you would lean towards the combustion-based variant.
well dont necessarily use diesel, use high octane fuel instead, methanol, biofuel, anything, ice cars are now way efficient than ever…but mining cobalt and lithium is way harmful…also cars arent the most harmful transportation invention in this world: how about airlines? have u ever considered taking a train instead of flying (especially country bound ?) (i always forget that i am commenting in c/fuckcars… i should consider unsubscribing from here; hating solely on cars is pointless)
A lot to unpack here.
well dont necessarily use diesel, use high octane fuel instead, methanol, biofuel, anything,
They are all pretty bad ways of powering motors, to be honest.
ice cars are now way efficient than ever…
And yet they are far inferior to electric motors. Combustion necessarily comes with the lions share of the energy being wasted as heat.
but mining cobalt and lithium is way harmful…
It’s not great, but then again, neither is the extraction of fossil fuels from the ground. From what I can tell, it’s actually far worse than the metal extraction we’re doing.
Consider that you may have fallen for fossil fuel industry propaganda that is trying their very best to cling on to their last years of high profits.
also cars arent the most harmful transportation invention in this world: how about airlines?
Apples and oranges. I’m not even really sure why you’re bringing it up.
have u ever considered taking a train instead of flying (especially country bound ?)
The vast majority of my long-distance traveling is done by train. My last international trip was by train, in fact! If only we invested more in trains, and stopped subsidizing flying. I love traveling by train, and I’m not exactly a fan of flying.
always forget that i am commenting in c/ fuckcars… i should consider unsubscribing from here; hating solely on cars is pointless)
I don’t think most people in here are solely hating on cars. They are bad, though, and that’s kind of the topic. There are other communities for hating on other harmful things in our world.
what i am trying to say: evs cant be easily adopted beyond western europe and us:africa, latin america, eastern europe and some parts of asia dont really have solid public transportation or good car infrastructure, let alone afford ev infrastructure and ev loans, so ice cars are a sustainable mean of transport in those countries: which could account for half of the earth population. investing in a more affordable and sustainable form of energy is beneficial for everyone: sure if u guys (rich countries) feel like susbidizing ev instead then go ahead, but u r hurting other countries in the process: especially lithium rich countries. investing in hydrogen would be cool for everyone, but i am no expert. also lithium storage and electric engines aren’t fit for aerial or maritime transport, so better think long term for the benefit of everything, it shouldnt be only about cars. how it feels, driving evs to combat pollution: https://imgur.com/a/1vMSrgD . but i salute ur choice of boarding the train instead of airplane in order to get around.
Unfortunately, I say this as a train lover. They require a lot more infrastructure than planes and will always be at a disadvantage because of that. You can set up an airport pretty much anywhere and make it reachable by pretty much anyone. Whereas with the train, you need a dedicated line from point to point that you will commit to maintaining through hell and high water.
There’s also the problem that in many countries, we are deliberately neglecting our train infrastructure and not investing in high speed alternatives that could compete with an airline over shorter distances.
All of these factors combine to make individual trips less efficient over train. I had to cross the United States this week. To do so by train would have taken me 4 days. Doing so by plane took me 6 hours. Nobody would choose a 4-day trip over a 6-hour one unless their goal is to look out the window a lot. Which is perfectly valid. But most people don’t look at traveling itself as the experience. And in this case, I had a particular event that I had to attend.
4 day trips need to be normalized: our capitalistic lords have made us more accepting of fast living: an average flight consommes about 7 tons of kerosene per flight, and release 3 times as much of co2 in mass, ie 20 tons, per single flight. travel by train albeit slow, but releases way less greenhouse gas. train or airplane infrastrucuture cost comparison: only an expert consultant could wager which one of both is less costly. ever wondered why we retire at 65 on average? u would say with all the efficiencies implemented in transport and the extra work time we put we would retire earlier, yet, we only work more in older age. something is missing in the loop
So you mean “Lithium is way worse” not EVs?
in a nutshell yea. bring up an ev that isnt dependant on rare earth metals and i would gladly embrace it, cause even the motors use rare neodymium
@mr_washee_washee @suodrazah So do wind farms. Are you opposed to them too?
use solar. silicium is abundant
Do you think refined gasoline just comes straight out of the ground?
There is a big culture of shaming and questioning people who buy small vehicles in the US and Canada. From salesmen who use it to push bigger, more profitable vehicles to people, to marketers who prey on fear and toxic masculinity to sell , and to everyday people who perpetuate the myths and fear, teasing and mocking their fellows who might have chosen a smaller vehicle. So here we are, barely a small vehicle to be bought and all maxed out on credit to drive the biggest rig we can. Well interest rates are headed up, gas is only going to get more expensive and suddenly that big rig with the the big operating cost shouldn’t seem like such a good idea.
I’m in the process of buying a car right now and ended up with a Rav4 because it would take six months to get a Camry, it sucks.
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It’s the mortgage and other loan interest rates that I’m meaning to allude to here. People facing a 30% increase in mortgages or rent might find that shelling out for that expensive car, it’s maintenance and operation isn’t as tenible as it was a year ago. That’s the whole point of those rate hikes, to stop us buying everything else and push price growth back in line.
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Even smaller vehicles are getting ridiculous. The Honda Civic is a $30,000 car now.
Why do I only buy used cars?
I’ve been priced out of new cars.
Edit: I of course also drive cars basically until I can’t fix them anymore (a high bar) though so it’s not like I buy cars often lol
Used cars are also getting to be insane. Try finding a ~5 year old Camry or Corolla in good shape for for less than 25K (CAD)these days, even the supply of $500 rusted out Crown Vic’s is drying up. I’ve even seen 10+ year old cars going for between 15-20K in my area.
Anecdata: this is also screwing with insurance. My sister got hit in a minor accident, we were sure the car was going to be written off since it’s 7 years old and more than three body panels would be replaced. But, the car had increased in value by $3,000 since she bought it five years ago, so they got to repair and keep it.
Yeah my current car is a 14 year old Kia Rio Hatchback and when I checked how much I could sell it for the price has actually gone up since I bought it 7 years ago
This shit’s crazy
My cars are as old or older than my kiddos. ‘08 VW Rabbit (aka Golf) and a ‘13 Traverse. I want a slightly larger vehicle with a bit more room for the younger one’s car seat, but I can’t afford a payment for anything recent. Would like to jump ahead to at least 2018 models.
Personally I’d love to get a vehicle with more ground clearance than my current car (slightly modified Kia Rio Hatchback with ~ 7 inches) to something with like 10 inches to 12 inches.
I do a lot of hiking and backpacking so things can get a bit sketchy at times trying to get to a trailhead.
But damn prices are high on new vehicles so I’ll probably go with something 20 years old or older.
Wear and condition are more important than year in my book. Yes, age does cause some issues, but they are less common. I buy older low mileage cars that were well cared for. But they are hard to find. It sometimes takes months of watching.
City vs highway miles also make a huge difference
Yeah honestly was looking at something like a 2018 GMC Terrain with higher mileage since I only drive about 3500 miles a year. If its got like 80k on the dial it wouldn’t bug me any. It’ll take yeeears before it hits 100k. But yeah I’d want something decent in condition.
We’ve had my wife’s car for a good 7 years (its ten years old now) and its still under 100k with it being the main family hauler. It’s the car that had priority to get fixed lol. Mines a little neglected since its mostly for around town or when i go in for work every so often.
not only tht but the civic is the size of an accord from the 90s now.
What the fuck?
The base civic is 24 USD.
24 USD
I’ll take a hundred at that price, then sell them, fix my house up, and go on a nice vacation.
Damn… What a steal…
For $24 that car is stamped with 1:76
There is no reason to ever buy brand new car for your daily commute.
Used car prices have never been worse, so there’s at least one reason
There’s no reason to ever buy a brand new car period. I say this while being someone who likes cars and is planning to buy a new car at some point. The only “reason”, if it even counts, to buy a new car is if you’re customizing a luxury/sports car and want it to your specifications. That’s it. Used cars work fine.
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“Might” thats real cute.
Seriously though, there’s some real insidious shit that goes on here in the US as far as mandates minimum fuel economy in large cars, which is definitely not helping this whole cost problem.
Basically, the US both nerfs requirements extremely quickly for more wasteful vehicles (such as SUVs and trucks) and nerfs the requirements within each individual category (like car, truck, mid-size SUV, etc) as the physical size of the vehicle gets closer to the max allowed size within that category.
This is a total win-win for automakers, as they can skate by with lower efficiency vehicles (reducing cost a lot) while making them physically bigger (not that much more expensive) and pocketing the difference. Oh and bigger is better so on top of that you just pay a fat-car tax straight to the automaker.
It’s really properly fucked.
YouTube for more: https://youtu.be/mQDegCqiVnU
Work on ending car dependency
There’s a lot of people that will default on car loans with only the most minor financial disruption
When they say car prices are unsustainable do y’all think they mean the manufacturer website one? (Website is pretty reasonable )
Or…
The one that when I step into a dealership they add $15000 for the “privilege” of me buying the car from them?
From the dealership mindset I must be batshit crazy for not buying a car from them.
Non-paywall link?
Plenty of bypass addons available for paywalls
Even worse is that our European “low emissions zones” are forcing us to buy new cars (not seond hand ones). Al for the environment right? It is a 360€ fine every time we cross such a zone in an older car.
So if you can’t afford a new car, they fine you for it pretty hefty. Long live the rich.
Where is there an LEZ that forces you to buy a ‘new car’? The ones I’m aware of require compliance with either fairly or very old emissions standards.
For example, in London, the ULEZ requires that petrol cars be Euro 4 (every UK vehicle since 2006 complies automatically) and diesel cars to be Euro 6 (mandatory for new cars since mid-2015). So, worst case, the vehicle needs to be newer than eight years old. More than 90% of vehicles driving into the expanded ULEZ area were already compliant before it became active.
Yes at least 8 years or younger. That is mad. You can afford a new car every 8 yrs? I cannot.
The statistics of the 90% are meaningless. You have to be dumb to drive a non-compliant car into a LEZ. So yea, 90% is complaint, I don’t need a statistic for that. I can also tell you that 90% of people who drink are thirsty.
You misunderstand the statistic. The 90% compliance measures cars that were driving into a future LEZ area. There was no need for any of those vehicles to be compliant at the time of measurement. The measurements were performed to analyse the impact that the new LEZ would have when introduced.
Additionally, I think it’s extremely misleading to say that you need to buy a new car every eight years. In this case, you might need to buy a used car that is already eight years old (or much older if petrol). They are not expensive compared to new cars. In the case of London there has also been a scrappage scheme to assist people, though this probably isn’t available everywhere.
Low emission zones essentially just reduce the amount of cars where the zones are located - i.e highly urbanized areas with great non-car mobility options. While maybe not implemented in the very best way, they are on balance a positive policy.
Except it doesn’t were we live in Antwerp. Covid prooved that. Our emissions come from the port. During lockdown, it was a year with very little travel. Emissions stayed the same.
man Europe is absurd in this regard: cars are almost the same for what ? 40 years or more ? only minor changes are implemented from a model to another. if cars were upgradeable there necessarily would be way less metal junk and everyone could afford a personal mean of transport
Diesel cars have to be 8 yrs or younger. Then they go for export to countries without low emissions zones for peanuts.
those export countries are the luckiest: probably african ones i would assume
Sounds like the US when they decided to fine us for not having health insurance.
I agree but you could easily fool me with the amount of brand new trucks and suvs I see driving around. Prices will not go down if everyone keeps paying them. And then there are people that can’t afford to buy groceries but they have their brand new jeep wagoneer that cost like $80k… that just further drives up prices because you have people that can’t afford it still paying the premium, still driving the demand, so the dealers can get away with charging whatever they want.
Cars are unsustainable.
My understanding is that a big part of the reason car prices are up is that everybody wants luxury brands + high-end trims now. So a lot of these delinquencies could be for people who would have had no problem affording a $300/month car lease if they’d opted for a cheaper car.
Consumer preference is part of it, but car manufacturers have also intentionally stopped competing for the low end and small vehicle market. It’s textbook tacit cooperation.
During the pandemic, there was a chip shortage that led makers to prioritize high margin cars like trucks and luxury SUVs. Many makers decided that they liked being a low volume high price seller and just cut their lower priced cars altogether. If everyone does it at the same time, there’s no market mechanism to punish them. Many people can’t buy smaller cars even if they wanted. It doesn’t help that all of our car regulations in the US and Canada encourage this by having much weaker regulations for bigger vehicles. The whole market is a mess.
You can buy a Kia with back up camera, Android Auto/car play, for 18k. 16k if you are willing to deal with a Mitsubishi drivetrain. People just don’t buy them because MOST new car buyers are wealthy anyway. There is some upward pressure on used because of supply chain issues and used inventory but that has already leveled off and has slightly corrected. Add in being used to 1% APR and it the payments ARE more. It will take more time but I really don’t think cars are increasing in price as much as media is yelling about it.
@fresh The Answer, at least historically, is consumers buying foreign cars. That’s one reason VW’s took off in the 1950’s-‘60’s. Of course, that’s been foreclosed by EPA & NHTSA regs. But EV’s would avoid EPA regulations. IDK what it would take on the safety end.
But, like you said, the foreign makers are also making big cars to comply with our corrupt pro-corporate regulations.
EVs are looking to be both more expensive and more dangerous. I have zero hope that they will be an improvement in any way except emissions.
We need weight and size based taxation to discourage big cars. More than that, we need to move away from car dependence.
More like the only ones that can afford new cars, want the luxury cars. And automakers make more off them, so that’s what they make.
Which means the used car market also gets inflated because there’s not as many cheap used cars.
And leases are just permanent payments with 3-4k down at signing.
So say it’s a 4 year lease, $300 a month is 17k+ and at the end you don’t own the car… So you buy the lease out (new leases won’t be good deals) or put another 3-4k down and sign a new lease.
Lease buyouts aren’t normally a good deal, there was just a very brief window where the used market had a significant increase, a lease signed today will have a much la
