I feel like there is no web browser with a sane default configuration that I can recommend to other people. All browsers are preconfigured in a way that harms the privacy of their users or include services that no one wants such as Pocket and BAT.
Here are my problems with some popular browsers.
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Mozilla Firefox: Pocket integration, no ad-blocking without extensions.
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Brave: Everything related to crypto. Also its start page is horrible.
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Chromium: No ad-blocking without extensions and soon Manifest v3 will cripple all content blockers.
Now, these suboptimal defaults wouldn’t be such a big problem if the configuration files were easy to backup and restore and respected the XDG base directory specification.
Ad blocking shouldn’t be tied to the browser, anyway. ublock is superb, imagine if firefox devs should have to develop it along with the browser (that nowadays is a herculean task).
Anyway, extensions give user freedom to chose how they use their browser.
Pocket take 2 seconds to disable.
It’s kinda the same with Brave. Just take 2 seconds to turn off the crypto thing and forget it was ever there.
I’m primarily a Firefox user but keep Brave around for Chromium-based browser testing.
Just turn it off, folks!
The difference is brave is shady as fuck.
Yeah, and there’s definitely some pay-offs going on with their reviews. Almost every one of them says something close to “This browser pays you just for browsing the internet!,” most of them don’t mention that it’s crypto, and none of them mention that it has nothing to do with browsing, but is instead for clicking integrated ads.
it has nothing to do with browsing, but is instead for clicking integrated ads.
It doesn’t show you ads if you’re not browsing… 🤔
And you don’t have to click the ads.
Brainlet response.
Getting popup ads is a far cry from “just browsing,” and despite claims otherwise, I always noticed a fairly stark difference from month to month that seemed to coincide with whether or not I was clicking the ads. 🤔
My favorite part of all these mad shilling comments in getting as how not a single one of them addresses the carbon copy “BRowSeR tHAT PaYS YoU!!!” reviews, they just all go “Hmm, but it says you don’t have to click, haha, you fool, you liar! You are discredited!”
Brainlet response.
Dafuq is a “brainlet”?
Getting popup ads is a far cry from “just browsing,”
I don’t know what part of this you’re not getting but you have to be browsing in order to get an ad, so it has absolutely everything to do with browsing, despite your insistence to the contrary.
that seemed to coincide with whether or not I was clicking the ads.
Wait you actually clicked the ads?
mad shilling comments
God I just love these comments. As if no one can actually genuinely like a product and any correction of disinformation makes you a “shill”… such big brain energy over here.
how not a single one of them addresses the carbon copy “BRowSeR tHAT PaYS YoU!!!” reviews.
Because we don’t care. We don’t read reviews from randoms online. We listen to experienced privacy and security advocates, and we actually use the browsers ourselves.
You’re not a shill for “genuinely liking a product” or “correcting disinformation” (which, btw, are both obvious b.s.), you’re a shill for denying any lying about genuine issues.
You’re a shill for your staunch refusal to accept that there’s a difference between “using a browser” and “receiving advertisements that pop up over your content or in your notification bar.”
You’re a shill for responding to mention of the half-truths they (and people like you) propagate with the dismissive “Wait you actually clicked the ads?”
You’re a shill because you willingly admit that you don’t care about the shady shit they do, and you clearly don’t want other people to care.
You’re a shill for implying that anyone who would point out the shady shit they do is simply dumber or less informed than you.
Clicking doesn’t improve earnings.
What are you on about? Clicking is literally the only way to get anything from it, period. I used to use Brave on both mobile and desktop, and that was true universally. You don’t get BAT unless you click the ads.
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Regardless of what they claim, I noticed a large difference between months where I did and didn’t bother to click their push notification ads. Well, as large a difference there can be on a maximum of $0.75/month.
Liar
Shill.
Been seeing a lot of people talk positively about Brave like it’s some hail corporate shit
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LOL it’s not “hail corporate shit”, it’s just a good browser…
Is it not open source? You can literally audit the code and point out any shadiness yourself.
though brave has 2 issues you can’t turn off:
- it’s chromium-based, and strenghtens the browser engine monopoly
- the company behind it seems quite shady, and afaik the ceo/leader/founder/… is homophobic
Yeah, obviously not great. Hence why I only use it for testing.
I would love to ignore Chromium based browsers completely I’m a web developer, so I can’t.
I wish there were a Chromium browser I could have the warm fuzzies about, but I’m not aware of one.
the browser engine monopoly
I don’t think you understand what a monopoly is. Chromium was developed specifically to avoid a monopoly…
Chromium was developed specifically to avoid a monopoly…
[Citation needed]
No one at Google is going to say that out loud. But it’s a fairly obvious assumption.
Same reason that Firefox is almost entirely funded by Google
Wasn’t Chrome also sort of a ‘reference implementation’ for years and years?
That is why forks like librewolf exist.
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Brave is based on Chromium, so the candy doesn’t have so nice taste.
Just when I was getting used to car analogies, here’s candy analogies
No browser will ever tick ALL your boxes. You pick one and make it work.
No browser will ever tick ALL your boxes.
Why not? Is it that hard to NOT include bloatware in your browser and respect XDG Base Directory? As for content blocking, the code is already there because extensions make use of it, just integrate it into the browser UI and use uBlock Origin’s block lists.
Sure. Then one of the project’s lead members will publicly donate to some homophobic group and that will have you second-guessing your browser of choice.
Is it that hard to NOT include bloatware in your browser
I mean obviously it is, yes. If you want to build a good browser, that takes resources. How else would you monetize it? God knows no one is paying directly for a web browser…
What’s wrong with pocket integration?Nobody forces you to use it. Apart from that it stores user data e2e encrypted, mozilla has no access to your data (as opposed to chromes sync functionality). Imho, a browser should not block some content by default. But ad-blocking must be easy to enable/install. All of that’s the case in FF so I see no reason not to recommend it.
Yeah, Pocket does nothing unless you press the button.
And as for telemetry that’s publicly available on telemetry.mozilla.org if anyone wants to see what’s being sent. It’s very useful for Mozilla to see what and how features are used.
Mozilla is our last tiny hope for freedom really, in this Chrome/Blink world…
Not to mention they have a freaking Help page explaining how to remove it if you really don’t like it for some reason.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/disable-or-re-enable-pocket-for-firefox
Just remove pocket in about:config
Just use Librewolf. It’s a fork of Firefox, with Pocket disabled, Ublock Origin preinstalled, and privacy settings enabled by default.
I still like firefox. I configure it using a json file. Just load that file and the browser is configured for all users on the system.
No problem. My comment was more to add some info. Perhaps i formulated it a bit odd.
I like Firefox too and I use it. But OP talks about adblocking and disabled pocket by default, so this is why I commented this.
(Actually I don’t even use Librewolf, I have just heard of it) EDIT: I saw that OP says that configuration files are an issue, so your comment is okay.
How many people maintain LibreWolf? How closely does it track the upstream?
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don’t expect browsers to block ads out of the box
You’re going to be spending a lot of time with your browser, make it a 2 way dialog, customize.
Firefox has an extremely vibrant extension ecosystem and seems to overall be doing well, but see what works for you.
Just install u block origin lmao.
And I’d have to do that manually for every computer on which I install the browser. I can’t just tell someone to install a browser and use it as is, there are always several additional steps required after install to have a decent experience. This is especially a problem for people who are not tech savvy.
Or just use their built in sync and sign in one time, and all your addons will be installed and enabled for you.
If your argument boils down to “none of the browsers are exactly pre-configured for me, one of the 7 billion not special people on the planet”, I’m not sure there’s a productive conversation to be had here.
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You can backup your profile folder. See here: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/back-and-restore-information-firefox-profiles
Use NixOS, nix package manager or home manager, declaratively add all the extensions and config you want, boom same browser every time
People who are not tech savvy can handle installing a browser extension manually the one or two times they have to set one up
What’s the problem with using uBlock on FF. Gets rids of ads, has ton of features to custom add filters and more.
Also, I kinda like Pocket Integration on FF. Found some interesting articles that way.
The problem with Pocket is: most of us don’t want it, and cannot get rid of it like you do with extension.
Well you can just remove the button by right-clicking on it. But if that’s not enough, Mozilla has a help page to completely disable it.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/disable-or-re-enable-pocket-for-firefox
Disabling it (even “completely”) is not the same as removing it. The code is still there. Mozilla don’t even provide a method to exclude it when building from source code.
idk what you want theb, disabling it is pretty much the same as completely removing it. It simply doesn’t do anything. Doesn’t send data no nothing
IMO that logic is really absurd. If you can disable it so that it doesn’t bother you, nor steal your data, then it’s completely fine. They are giving you the option to opt-out.
Pretty sure there was a flag to disable it.
In other news, emacs still didn’t ship my
init.elas part of the default configuration! LolI didn’t know about the Manifest v3 thing, and I found this article. Sharing in case anyone else is out of the loop.
Librewolf or one of the other Firefox forks
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You should REALLY try Vivaldi.
Best browser for desktop and mobile. Privacy respecting and great onboarding, plus very versatile and powerful if you want that.
Or keep it simple. They let you choose.
Yep, also they don’t integrate Pocket in the browser, they just have a built-in
email client, note-taking software, RSS reader, calendarbloat. Also, Vivaldi is based on chromium (as such subsribed to all Google’s bullshit), and uses Chrome extension store.Honestly, OP, just stick to Librewolf, it’s privacy-respecting and actually open-source, pocket’s disabled, UBo’s preinstalled.
they just have a built-in email client, note-taking software, RSS reader, calendarbloatYou literally get a button when you first install it asking whether you want these things. One click and they’re disabled. Also OP post is about privacy not bloat and these features will only improve your privacy over using some webmail.
Also, Vivaldi is based on chromium (as such subsribed to all Google’s bullshit)
All google stuff is either removed or toggleable from settings.
uses Chrome extension store.
What’s wrong with that? It’s a good deal larger than mozilla’s
Also OP post is about privacy not bloat
OP is concerned about Pocket integration too, so I assumed they may not like it.
these features will only improve your privacy over using some webmail.
Does their built-in mail support any good encryption? The last time I used Vivaldi a mail feature wasn’t really that private. Also, using dedicated email client like claws or mutt is even better from privacy perspective.
All google stuff is either removed or toggleable from settings.
They can’t remove Manifest V3 though.
What’s wrong with that? It’s a good deal larger than mozilla’s
Yes, and it’s under Google’s control. And, again when I used it last time, you need to enable some google stuff to install extensions from the store.
Not sure about the encryption tbh. I’ve never used any mail service that properly supported it so haven’t tried.
Also, using dedicated email client like claws or mutt is even better from privacy perspective.
Any reason why, aside from encryption?
They can’t remove Manifest V3 though.
That’s why they have a built in adblocker.
Basically, you don’t want everything be dependant on a central authority - this is a single point of failure. If there’s a big security vulnerability in your web browser, but you use a standalone mail client, your mails are most probably safe.
This also adds up to built-in adblocker - who knows if Vivaldi devs will ever go evil and sneak in exceptions in their adblocker? Or if they will sell their web browser, just like their CEO done so with his previous browser, Opera.
Web browsers handle the most sensitive information about a user, so I would never trust a proprietary browser.
Most of Vivaldi is already open source. The only parts that aren’t are the front end. And that part is apparently just minified JavaScript
@danielfgom @the_crab_man bing + 10 auto bookmarked paves which i dont care about
