I think Mamdani is what I’d call a center-left. He does suggest some moderate forms of wealth redistribution (via higher and more proportional taxes, which can then be used for food, transit, etc) and some very mild redistribution of means of production (city-owned grocery stores etc), all while keeping the wider capitalist framework. While not a radical leftist, I think it is an amazing step forward for the US, and pretty much the best new yorkers can hope for outside of a socialist revolution.
Yea, I am a big fan of Mamdani, but seeing the wider state of “the left” in the US, I do not think he will be able to have the impact we would all like to see. I sort of see him as another AOC/Bernie for now, at least until he starts successfully achieving material changes.
We’ll see. At least with a few of his promises, they are things that he will have the power to implement on his own. If he hasn’t attempted them in the first month, it will be a very bad sign.
2035: In other news, the newly reanimated body of Karl Marx has been elected to the Virginia House of Representatives
Lemmy.ml: Until he’s willing to CLEARLY AND UNAMBIGUOUSLY call it a “genocide” and STRONGLY indicate support for trans rights he’s STILL FUCKING DEAD TO ME I’m voting for Jill Stein
Your continued harassment of people in leftist spaces and ongoing astroturfing implies you care very deeply. I can’t imagine why you would hang around places you’re not welcome, if you didn’t care.
It’s not “harassment” to disagree, even disagree in a pointed fashion.
Like if someone came onto lemmy.world and made a joke about how bad the moderation is, that’s not “harassment.” That’s just them speaking their mind. In any reasonable space that kind of thing is allowed. I know that on lemmy.ml, it is sometimes not. Maybe in this case it is not? I don’t know. Maybe it is, let’s see.
I’m well aware that lemmy.ml as a community doesn’t tolerate being spoken to in such a disobedient fashion or criticized. I think that’s silly. My comment was sincerely not badly intended, just more along the lines of “wake up you guys are being ridiculous” (both about the screaming intoleration of anyone in American politics who seems like they might be poised to make some kind of progress, and also now about the defensive hivemind behavior that gets all bent out of shape about anyone who disagrees with the herd about that or various other issues).
Up to you man. It was meant as a one-off comment, but of course in standard lemmy.ml fashion now we have to have a big conversation about it where you continue to comment hostility to try to discourage anyone from speaking their mind about that kind of thing in the future. The purpose is to silence dissent. I probably won’t really go back and forth about it (what even would be the point?), but that’s my intent in making these comments. If I was trying to harass I would probably come to .ml more often, but I don’t, I only found this one because it was a crosspost.
Is this still you trying to act nonchalant, or are you switching modes now?
I can’t stop you from continuing to be an ass and pushing establishment propaganda. You can’t stop me from pointing out how that’s obliterated your credibility on this platform. Works both ways, but it seems like weird way to spend your time trying to act like you’re a voice of reason in front of an audience you’ve already embarrassed yourself in front of many times.
Works both ways, but it seems like weird way to spend your time trying to act like you’re a voice of reason in front of an audience you’ve already embarrassed yourself in front of many times.
I still remember when you claimed with a straight face that Israel was using nuclear weapons in Syria, and the only reason I didn’t know about it was because I was confused by Western propaganda.
You’re probably right that as far as the present community’s viewpoint, I am “embarrassing myself” and you are “pointing out” things and so on. That’s because the present community’s viewpoint is detached from reality and based on groupthink, confident presentations, and hostility to outsiders and not much else.
You guys are welcome to your “community,” I guess. I’ve made the point and then belabored it a little bit, I don’t see the point in a continued back and forth so I won’t waste more time.
Revolution is definitionally not immediate. It is radical, but it does take work - and a lot of it - to get there. Read Lenin and the history of Russian revolution to see just how much work it takes. That work is much easier to do when your mayor is a self-professed socialist compared to when they are a capitalist themselves, if nothing else than by dispersing the fear of socialism instilled into many by capitalist propaganda.
And the people going hungry and rationing their insulin need immediate change.
In the context of the US, this particular change will come sooner from reformists then from revolutionaries. Revolutionaries have a lot of work ahead of them, while reformists are gaining ground right now. That is not to say that revolution is not necessary; it is, but on a longer time scale. Getting insulin to diabetics is easy compared to getting the means of production to all workers, but the latter has much greater benefits for all society of course.
There is very little revolutionary potential in today’s USamericans. They are so accustomed to creature comforts afforded to them by imperialism that most of them can’t even get their asses out to the polling stations, and those that do vote for fascist republicans or limp-liberal democrats. For comparison, results of the 1917 elections in Russia were:
SR (socialist revolutionaries): 38%
Bolsheviks: 23%
Ukranian Socialist Revolutionaries: 12%
RSDRP (Mensheviks + Internationalists): 3%
Russian people in 1917 wanted socialism and wanted revolution, and voted for socialist revolutionaries and bolsheviks. Then they overthrew the temporary (anti-bolshevik) government and installed soviets, because that is what they wanted and that is what they voted for.
USians of today want berger, amazon, and racism, and vote for parties that support those things. It’s clear the two situations are not comparable.
As the revolutionary potential rises, we will see it in the polls. Mamdani - a self-proclaimed socialist - being elected in today’s political climate could be one of the first signs.
If Americans were too comfortable to radicalize, we wouldn’t have both Dems & GOP declaring anti-capitalism as extremism, we wouldn’t have both parties sending in the national guard to intimidate the electorate, we wouldn’t have both parties sending the cops to attack protestors, we wouldn’t have both parties fighting unions, we wouldn’t have both parties going after 2nd amendment rights, etc. We especially wouldn’t have the US government jailing and assassinating leftist leaders as a matter of policy.
To say Americans are too comfortable for revolution, when 18 million are food insecure, 37% cannot afford a $400 emergency, 40-60% of the homeless are employed, 41% of Americans are dealing with medical debt, the bottom 50% own 2% of the wealth while the top 1% own 70%, the average wage in this country is a poverty wage, corporations are buying up to a third of family homes on the market… it’s just an absolutely idiotic and ignorant statement.
I wanted to vote for the socialist last election. democrats sued her off the ballot in my state. Now why would they need to do that, if Americans don’t want to vote for socialists?
If Americans were too comfortable to radicalize, we wouldn’t have both Dems & GOP declaring anti-capitalism as extremism, we wouldn’t have both parties sending in the national guard to intimidate the electorate, we wouldn’t have both parties sending the cops to attack protestors, we wouldn’t have both parties fighting unions, we wouldn’t have both parties going after 2nd amendment rights, etc. We especially wouldn’t have the US government jailing and assassinating leftist leaders as a matter of policy.
Au contraire; if americans had class consciousness and were ready to radicalize, none of it would matter. If anything, those policies would speed up the radicalization. I guarantee you that if 60-70% of americans considered socialism to be a good idea (as was the case in Russia in 1917), both republicans and democrats would almost immediately be swept aside by a revolution.
As it stands, with support for socialism wavering steadily around 1-2%, all those policies are there precisely to stop any reform or radicalization and to funnel any existing working class anger & energy into either right-wing populism or “radical liberalism”.
To say Americans are too comfortable for revolution, when 18 million are food insecure, 37% cannot afford a $400 emergency, 40-60% of the homeless are employed, 41% of Americans are dealing with medical debt, the bottom 50% own 2% of the wealth while the top 1% own 70%, the average wage in this country is a poverty wage, corporations are buying up to a third of family homes on the market… it’s just an absolutely idiotic and ignorant statement.
It’s not that they are comfortable in the absolute sense, it’s more that they can feel and understand, even if subconsciously, the immediate benefits provided to them by imperialism and unsustainable capitalism. It is undeniable that almost all americans have it better than citizens of global south. Any serious socialist movement would have to denounce imperialism, and by extension the colonial plunder that brings in so many resources into the country; and it would have to switch to a sustainable mode of production, reducing the total commodities available. This is a scary thought for most, even a lot of “progressives”. Revolution would mean an immediate (but temporary) decline in the perceived standard of living for an average american; they wouldn’t be able to afford even a dream of a mcmansion and F250 anymore.
I wanted to vote for the socialist last election. democrats sued her off the ballot in my state. Now why would they need to do that, if Americans don’t want to vote for socialists?
“Intimidation” election manipulation are much easier to pull off than serious election manipulation. What it does in this case is prevent a “count” for the left, and deprives you of any feeling of community, not change the result of the election. If there was serious support for a socialist among the populace, as there was in new york, no amount of billionaire money, political games or voter fraud would change the end result. Proletariat has the power, it just needs to realize it. American proletariat has its head stuck in the sand, hiding from both its power and its responsibility, and a lot of work (education, agitation and organizing) will have to go into changing that before a revolution is even on the table.
Until we start talking about seizing the means of production and wealth redistribution, we are nowhere near the left. Still very firmly on the right.
I think Mamdani is what I’d call a center-left. He does suggest some moderate forms of wealth redistribution (via higher and more proportional taxes, which can then be used for food, transit, etc) and some very mild redistribution of means of production (city-owned grocery stores etc), all while keeping the wider capitalist framework. While not a radical leftist, I think it is an amazing step forward for the US, and pretty much the best new yorkers can hope for outside of a socialist revolution.
Yea, I am a big fan of Mamdani, but seeing the wider state of “the left” in the US, I do not think he will be able to have the impact we would all like to see. I sort of see him as another AOC/Bernie for now, at least until he starts successfully achieving material changes.
We’ll see. At least with a few of his promises, they are things that he will have the power to implement on his own. If he hasn’t attempted them in the first month, it will be a very bad sign.
2035: In other news, the newly reanimated body of Karl Marx has been elected to the Virginia House of Representatives
Lemmy.ml: Until he’s willing to CLEARLY AND UNAMBIGUOUSLY call it a “genocide” and STRONGLY indicate support for trans rights he’s STILL FUCKING DEAD TO ME I’m voting for Jill Stein
Wrong and dumb, as usual
LoL. With your reputation on here, absolutely no one is going to assume you’re arguing in good faith on moving left.
https://clip.cafe/tombstone-1993/i-abhor-ugliness-does-mean-were-not-friends-any-more/
Your continued harassment of people in leftist spaces and ongoing astroturfing implies you care very deeply. I can’t imagine why you would hang around places you’re not welcome, if you didn’t care.
It’s not “harassment” to disagree, even disagree in a pointed fashion.
Like if someone came onto lemmy.world and made a joke about how bad the moderation is, that’s not “harassment.” That’s just them speaking their mind. In any reasonable space that kind of thing is allowed. I know that on lemmy.ml, it is sometimes not. Maybe in this case it is not? I don’t know. Maybe it is, let’s see.
I’m well aware that lemmy.ml as a community doesn’t tolerate being spoken to in such a disobedient fashion or criticized. I think that’s silly. My comment was sincerely not badly intended, just more along the lines of “wake up you guys are being ridiculous” (both about the screaming intoleration of anyone in American politics who seems like they might be poised to make some kind of progress, and also now about the defensive hivemind behavior that gets all bent out of shape about anyone who disagrees with the herd about that or various other issues).
Up to you man. It was meant as a one-off comment, but of course in standard lemmy.ml fashion now we have to have a big conversation about it where you continue to comment hostility to try to discourage anyone from speaking their mind about that kind of thing in the future. The purpose is to silence dissent. I probably won’t really go back and forth about it (what even would be the point?), but that’s my intent in making these comments. If I was trying to harass I would probably come to .ml more often, but I don’t, I only found this one because it was a crosspost.
Is this still you trying to act nonchalant, or are you switching modes now?
I can’t stop you from continuing to be an ass and pushing establishment propaganda. You can’t stop me from pointing out how that’s obliterated your credibility on this platform. Works both ways, but it seems like weird way to spend your time trying to act like you’re a voice of reason in front of an audience you’ve already embarrassed yourself in front of many times.
I still remember when you claimed with a straight face that Israel was using nuclear weapons in Syria, and the only reason I didn’t know about it was because I was confused by Western propaganda.
https://lemmy.world/post/23537807/14158168
You’re probably right that as far as the present community’s viewpoint, I am “embarrassing myself” and you are “pointing out” things and so on. That’s because the present community’s viewpoint is detached from reality and based on groupthink, confident presentations, and hostility to outsiders and not much else.
You guys are welcome to your “community,” I guess. I’ve made the point and then belabored it a little bit, I don’t see the point in a continued back and forth so I won’t waste more time.
See how there’s a link to an article in that comment? I didn’t claim shit. ‘It’s being reported’ is not a personal claim.
I would love to believe you’re done pushing propaganda in leftist spaces on here, but I’m positive that’s just more bullshit.
Every great journey starts with a few small steps. It is a hike, not a teleporter. Small actions and discussions towards the future.
Incorrect. Revolution is immediate. And the people going hungry and rationing their insulin need immediate change.
Revolution is definitionally not immediate. It is radical, but it does take work - and a lot of it - to get there. Read Lenin and the history of Russian revolution to see just how much work it takes. That work is much easier to do when your mayor is a self-professed socialist compared to when they are a capitalist themselves, if nothing else than by dispersing the fear of socialism instilled into many by capitalist propaganda.
In the context of the US, this particular change will come sooner from reformists then from revolutionaries. Revolutionaries have a lot of work ahead of them, while reformists are gaining ground right now. That is not to say that revolution is not necessary; it is, but on a longer time scale. Getting insulin to diabetics is easy compared to getting the means of production to all workers, but the latter has much greater benefits for all society of course.
It was Lenin who said “There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen.”
In January 1917, Lenin said he did not believe he’d live to see the revolution. Then he lived through it in October that year.
None of this is hypothetical. We have plenty of real world revolutions to look at, and see just how immediate the changes can be.
There is very little revolutionary potential in today’s USamericans. They are so accustomed to creature comforts afforded to them by imperialism that most of them can’t even get their asses out to the polling stations, and those that do vote for fascist republicans or limp-liberal democrats. For comparison, results of the 1917 elections in Russia were:
Russian people in 1917 wanted socialism and wanted revolution, and voted for socialist revolutionaries and bolsheviks. Then they overthrew the temporary (anti-bolshevik) government and installed soviets, because that is what they wanted and that is what they voted for.
USians of today want berger, amazon, and racism, and vote for parties that support those things. It’s clear the two situations are not comparable.
As the revolutionary potential rises, we will see it in the polls. Mamdani - a self-proclaimed socialist - being elected in today’s political climate could be one of the first signs.
This is bullshit rightwing propaganda.
If Americans were too comfortable to radicalize, we wouldn’t have both Dems & GOP declaring anti-capitalism as extremism, we wouldn’t have both parties sending in the national guard to intimidate the electorate, we wouldn’t have both parties sending the cops to attack protestors, we wouldn’t have both parties fighting unions, we wouldn’t have both parties going after 2nd amendment rights, etc. We especially wouldn’t have the US government jailing and assassinating leftist leaders as a matter of policy.
To say Americans are too comfortable for revolution, when 18 million are food insecure, 37% cannot afford a $400 emergency, 40-60% of the homeless are employed, 41% of Americans are dealing with medical debt, the bottom 50% own 2% of the wealth while the top 1% own 70%, the average wage in this country is a poverty wage, corporations are buying up to a third of family homes on the market… it’s just an absolutely idiotic and ignorant statement.
I wanted to vote for the socialist last election. democrats sued her off the ballot in my state. Now why would they need to do that, if Americans don’t want to vote for socialists?
Au contraire; if americans had class consciousness and were ready to radicalize, none of it would matter. If anything, those policies would speed up the radicalization. I guarantee you that if 60-70% of americans considered socialism to be a good idea (as was the case in Russia in 1917), both republicans and democrats would almost immediately be swept aside by a revolution.
As it stands, with support for socialism wavering steadily around 1-2%, all those policies are there precisely to stop any reform or radicalization and to funnel any existing working class anger & energy into either right-wing populism or “radical liberalism”.
It’s not that they are comfortable in the absolute sense, it’s more that they can feel and understand, even if subconsciously, the immediate benefits provided to them by imperialism and unsustainable capitalism. It is undeniable that almost all americans have it better than citizens of global south. Any serious socialist movement would have to denounce imperialism, and by extension the colonial plunder that brings in so many resources into the country; and it would have to switch to a sustainable mode of production, reducing the total commodities available. This is a scary thought for most, even a lot of “progressives”. Revolution would mean an immediate (but temporary) decline in the perceived standard of living for an average american; they wouldn’t be able to afford even a dream of a mcmansion and F250 anymore.
“Intimidation” election manipulation are much easier to pull off than serious election manipulation. What it does in this case is prevent a “count” for the left, and deprives you of any feeling of community, not change the result of the election. If there was serious support for a socialist among the populace, as there was in new york, no amount of billionaire money, political games or voter fraud would change the end result. Proletariat has the power, it just needs to realize it. American proletariat has its head stuck in the sand, hiding from both its power and its responsibility, and a lot of work (education, agitation and organizing) will have to go into changing that before a revolution is even on the table.
Did you just pull that 1-2% completely out of your ass?
https://news.gallup.com/poll/694835/image-capitalism-slips.aspx