I once saw a video called “Spelunking on the Spectrum” which is about how some of the main characters in Dungeon Meshi have been picked up by the autistic community as representing 3 main stereotypes of autistic individuals, and one of the things said in there has always stuck with me: the idea that the same traits in autistic men that are seen as strange or off-putting are seen as womanly, demure, or attractive in some other way in autistic women. Simply because of how those behaviors are perceived or interpreted based on the gender and appearance of the person performing them.
This is why autistic folks tend to disproportionately be some kind of gender queer.
Because it is immediately, extremely obvious to us that gender is basically just made up, and is essentially arbitrary.
Awkward, shy, somewhat clumsy, quirky girl who is secretly some kind of genuis within some realm or topic?
Well, she’s an adorable (adorkable) and relatable character, and a desireable love interest for a genuine guy.
She also usually just needs some kind of entirely superficial glow up scene to transform from ugly duckling into a stunner.
Awkward, shy, somewhat clumsy, quirky guy, who is secretly some kind of genius within some realm or topic?
Oh, he’s a troubled child, his story is going to either be a tragedy or a rags to riches format tale, where he has to change essentially everything about himself, or find a way to channel his genius into something acceptable and safe, and he is always only ever going to be tolerated, never accepted, and learn to isolate from and/or reject society and interpersonal relationships to a fairly extreme extent.
… I had figured this out, these differences in cultural norms and narratives, by like age 9.
Heteronormativity is weird, irrational thing that neurotypicals do, but again, as previously mentioned, attempting to discuss things like this with most (not all, but most) NTs simply makes them angry, because their brains are not wired to actually analyze social contexts in detail and specificity, with consistency, without contradiction/hypocrisy.
Their brains are ‘good’ at socializing, because their brains evaluate socialization in a fuzzy, subconscious, non explicit way. That makes them faster at generating actions within a social context, but it also usually makes them into hypocrites with double standards and low self awareness.
But, those latter things don’t matter so much to them, because their concept of ‘good socializing’ is very much weighted toward rapidity of responses as being indicatory of authenticity and good character, and deliberation indicating something like scheming, generating a lie.
To put it in less autistic terms: They just don’t think about it, and/or they just bullshit their way through most social situations.
For autistics, this socialization norm is reversed:
Deliberation indicates authenticity and good character, rapidity indicates unseriousness and potentially lying, or dangerous levels of impulsivity / lack of emotional self regulation.
I can easily strike up a wonderfully polite and interesting conversation with an autistic woman who I randomly meet during the course of my day.
Whereas trying to do this with a neurotypical woman is next to impossible. A quick, polite conversation, sure thats not too hard (now that I have almost 4 decades of practice), but a lengthy one that isn’t awkward or immensely uninteresting?. Very difficult. Would be even more difficult if I were less broadly physically attractive.
I’m closer to 40 now than I am to 30… I’ve been in the world a bit.
The idea that neurotypicals can’t sniff out an autistic woman from an NT woman is literally laughable to me, its the easiest thing in the world.
Unfortunately… the vast majority of psychologists and such, well, they’re neurotypicals, so they’re kind of slow on the uptake of understanding how autists work, and they’re also usually too proud to admit ignorance.
I once saw a video called “Spelunking on the Spectrum” which is about how some of the main characters in Dungeon Meshi have been picked up by the autistic community as representing 3 main stereotypes of autistic individuals, and one of the things said in there has always stuck with me: the idea that the same traits in autistic men that are seen as strange or off-putting are seen as womanly, demure, or attractive in some other way in autistic women. Simply because of how those behaviors are perceived or interpreted based on the gender and appearance of the person performing them.
I have not seen this, but uh, yes.
This is why autistic folks tend to disproportionately be some kind of gender queer.
Because it is immediately, extremely obvious to us that gender is basically just made up, and is essentially arbitrary.
Awkward, shy, somewhat clumsy, quirky girl who is secretly some kind of genuis within some realm or topic?
Well, she’s an adorable (adorkable) and relatable character, and a desireable love interest for a genuine guy.
She also usually just needs some kind of entirely superficial glow up scene to transform from ugly duckling into a stunner.
Awkward, shy, somewhat clumsy, quirky guy, who is secretly some kind of genius within some realm or topic?
Oh, he’s a troubled child, his story is going to either be a tragedy or a rags to riches format tale, where he has to change essentially everything about himself, or find a way to channel his genius into something acceptable and safe, and he is always only ever going to be tolerated, never accepted, and learn to isolate from and/or reject society and interpersonal relationships to a fairly extreme extent.
… I had figured this out, these differences in cultural norms and narratives, by like age 9.
Heteronormativity is weird, irrational thing that neurotypicals do, but again, as previously mentioned, attempting to discuss things like this with most (not all, but most) NTs simply makes them angry, because their brains are not wired to actually analyze social contexts in detail and specificity, with consistency, without contradiction/hypocrisy.
Their brains are ‘good’ at socializing, because their brains evaluate socialization in a fuzzy, subconscious, non explicit way. That makes them faster at generating actions within a social context, but it also usually makes them into hypocrites with double standards and low self awareness.
But, those latter things don’t matter so much to them, because their concept of ‘good socializing’ is very much weighted toward rapidity of responses as being indicatory of authenticity and good character, and deliberation indicating something like scheming, generating a lie.
To put it in less autistic terms: They just don’t think about it, and/or they just bullshit their way through most social situations.
For autistics, this socialization norm is reversed:
Deliberation indicates authenticity and good character, rapidity indicates unseriousness and potentially lying, or dangerous levels of impulsivity / lack of emotional self regulation.
I can easily strike up a wonderfully polite and interesting conversation with an autistic woman who I randomly meet during the course of my day.
Whereas trying to do this with a neurotypical woman is next to impossible. A quick, polite conversation, sure thats not too hard (now that I have almost 4 decades of practice), but a lengthy one that isn’t awkward or immensely uninteresting?. Very difficult. Would be even more difficult if I were less broadly physically attractive.
I’m closer to 40 now than I am to 30… I’ve been in the world a bit.
The idea that neurotypicals can’t sniff out an autistic woman from an NT woman is literally laughable to me, its the easiest thing in the world.
Unfortunately… the vast majority of psychologists and such, well, they’re neurotypicals, so they’re kind of slow on the uptake of understanding how autists work, and they’re also usually too proud to admit ignorance.