what a bullshit lie, everyone had equal rights under USSR, we even got ukrainian as leader of USSR, ukrainians played major role in innovation and arts. This bullshit should stop, USSR was dissolved due to russian nationalism not formed
As someone who lived in USSR, slow me to adjust your statement.
Everyone was declared to have equal rights, not dissimilar to the constitutions of other countries.
Contrary to those declarations the soviet passports had “nationality” in them.
On top of that, while it was reasonable for everyone to have a common language, it was a common understanding that if one is too progress in life and career, they should adopt russian and, better, become one. Which was actively supported. While I grew up in Ukraine, in school we had Ukrainian language and literature as a foreign language, maybe 10% of what we spent learning russian ones.
So yeah, everyone was equal, as long as they are russian. Every other nationality was at best mocked. Ukrainians are greedy, Georgians are brainless machos, Chukchas are stupid, Jews are sneaky thieves etc.
On top of that, there was systemic discrimination of women which culminated in the joke-proverb “woman, keep your mouth shut, your day is 8th of march”.
And of course the equality was topped by the oligarchy. See in a one-party system, people are either party members or not. The country was obviously ruled exclusively by the party members, which not only meant that the non-members had zero representation, it also meant that most members had equally zero representation.
Ironically, in that sense, there was equality since nobody had any rights.
So a small elite has formed, it was mostly replenished via nepotism and those were the “more equal” ones.
The patriotic movements you’re mentioning, while they naturally picked the flag after the collapse, had little to do with the said collapse. It crashed because it was resistant to change.
And the soviets were well aware of the “nationalist danger”, that why after causing holodomor they settled millions of ethnic russians into the emptied homes in Ukraine. That’s why after the second world war (which the soviets don’t call that because they actually started it together with the Nazis) they sent hundreds of thousands of Crimean Tatars to Siberia and replaced them with… more ethnically and loyal russians.
So yeah, everyone was declared equal, but only male, russian and well-connected were.
I wont say much on your own experience because I have no way to verify it but most probably you have memories of last days of USSR when it was already broken.
As it comes to holodomor, no it wasnt caused intentionally nor it was targeted towards ukrainians
And no soviets didnt start world war together with nazis, thats another nazi lie
Lol, so the soviets did not have a pact with Nazis and didn’t invade Poland just two weeks after the Nazis?
My friend, I understand your desire to see Soviet Union as some sort of dualistic opponent of the imperialist US (which the latter is), and use that to declare as the good side, but I’m afraid the USSR was just as imperialist and as terrible, just differently.
It was way more like two mafia gangs fighting each other. And the one that won is now finally showing its true colours.
The fundamental approach to equality in the early Soviet Union was via killing all those “not equal”. Lenin was very adamant about using extreme violence to “convince” the population. So was Stalin. The following ones were a little less blood thirsty, but simply because their predecessors did a great job killing millions.
Sorry, Soviet Union was a tyrannical oligarchy, as far from socialism as its great opponent the US of A.
By the way, your argument that you don’t know but I also cannot know because I was late to the party (pun intended) is… a very naive one. But I agree with you - you don’t know and fight rather hard to retain your faith.
As I’ve said in a few of my comments here on Lemmy, even if you didn’t personally experience the Soviet Union in its “prime”, you must have heard first-hand stories about it from your parents or grandparents. Most of those who glorify the Soviet Union in these English-speaking spaces can’t even say as much. Their whole understanding is built on propaganda viewed through the selection bias of “the enemy of my enemy” logic.
Many european countries signed pact with nazis, lol. That means literally nothing, soviets were trying to rally french, UK, polish etc against germany before the MR pact but their irrational anti communism didnt let there to be any anti german alliance
Poland had invaded soviet ally czechoslovakia.
The two years which soviet got due that pact had there army almost quadrapuled, soviets knew germany would invade thats why they signed the pact to buy some time.
No my point is the entire point of existence of USSR was anti nationalism and the moment nationalist sentiment got up it collapsed.
I stand with ukraine against russia and all but pretending that ukrainians werent integral part of USSR and were somehow occupied by russians is farce.
Thanks for confirming that you’re a mindless russian shill.
The holodomor wasn’t targeted at Ukraine. Ukraine was the bread basket of the USSR.
No shit it was the bread basket. That’s why the USSR took all their grain to russia and left the Ukrainians to starve. It was very much targeted at Ukraine.
You accuse people of falling for propaganda, but you’re the one out there actively peddling propaganda.
Why would I continue to read what is obviously inane kremlin bootlicking drivel?
Yes, I have already made up my mind about FSB propaganda. The russian federation is a totalitarian and barbaric fascist imperialist nation bent on the destruction of western society with the goal of reshaping the world order in their own image, and they’re willing to lie, cheat, steal, and subvert anything and everything to achieve their goal (which they never will, because they’re weak).
The russian federation should collapse and dissolve and all the regions should balkanize into sovereign nations. Moscow should be reduced to a pariah.
My mind is quite set on this, actually. Want to change my mind? Then pull your forces out of Ukraine and stop bombing them.
Until then, you’re just a b-rated parody of the mongol empire.
what a bullshit lie, everyone had equal rights under USSR, we even got ukrainian as leader of USSR, ukrainians played major role in innovation and arts. This bullshit should stop, USSR was dissolved due to russian nationalism not formed
As someone who lived in USSR, slow me to adjust your statement.
Everyone was declared to have equal rights, not dissimilar to the constitutions of other countries.
Contrary to those declarations the soviet passports had “nationality” in them.
On top of that, while it was reasonable for everyone to have a common language, it was a common understanding that if one is too progress in life and career, they should adopt russian and, better, become one. Which was actively supported. While I grew up in Ukraine, in school we had Ukrainian language and literature as a foreign language, maybe 10% of what we spent learning russian ones.
So yeah, everyone was equal, as long as they are russian. Every other nationality was at best mocked. Ukrainians are greedy, Georgians are brainless machos, Chukchas are stupid, Jews are sneaky thieves etc.
On top of that, there was systemic discrimination of women which culminated in the joke-proverb “woman, keep your mouth shut, your day is 8th of march”.
And of course the equality was topped by the oligarchy. See in a one-party system, people are either party members or not. The country was obviously ruled exclusively by the party members, which not only meant that the non-members had zero representation, it also meant that most members had equally zero representation.
Ironically, in that sense, there was equality since nobody had any rights.
So a small elite has formed, it was mostly replenished via nepotism and those were the “more equal” ones.
The patriotic movements you’re mentioning, while they naturally picked the flag after the collapse, had little to do with the said collapse. It crashed because it was resistant to change.
And the soviets were well aware of the “nationalist danger”, that why after causing holodomor they settled millions of ethnic russians into the emptied homes in Ukraine. That’s why after the second world war (which the soviets don’t call that because they actually started it together with the Nazis) they sent hundreds of thousands of Crimean Tatars to Siberia and replaced them with… more ethnically and loyal russians.
So yeah, everyone was declared equal, but only male, russian and well-connected were.
I wont say much on your own experience because I have no way to verify it but most probably you have memories of last days of USSR when it was already broken.
As it comes to holodomor, no it wasnt caused intentionally nor it was targeted towards ukrainians
And no soviets didnt start world war together with nazis, thats another nazi lie
Lol, so the soviets did not have a pact with Nazis and didn’t invade Poland just two weeks after the Nazis?
My friend, I understand your desire to see Soviet Union as some sort of dualistic opponent of the imperialist US (which the latter is), and use that to declare as the good side, but I’m afraid the USSR was just as imperialist and as terrible, just differently.
It was way more like two mafia gangs fighting each other. And the one that won is now finally showing its true colours.
The fundamental approach to equality in the early Soviet Union was via killing all those “not equal”. Lenin was very adamant about using extreme violence to “convince” the population. So was Stalin. The following ones were a little less blood thirsty, but simply because their predecessors did a great job killing millions.
Sorry, Soviet Union was a tyrannical oligarchy, as far from socialism as its great opponent the US of A.
By the way, your argument that you don’t know but I also cannot know because I was late to the party (pun intended) is… a very naive one. But I agree with you - you don’t know and fight rather hard to retain your faith.
As I’ve said in a few of my comments here on Lemmy, even if you didn’t personally experience the Soviet Union in its “prime”, you must have heard first-hand stories about it from your parents or grandparents. Most of those who glorify the Soviet Union in these English-speaking spaces can’t even say as much. Their whole understanding is built on propaganda viewed through the selection bias of “the enemy of my enemy” logic.
👍
@clot27 @doo so… How do you view the Soviet invasion of Poland?
Straightforward. Nazis and soviets had a military pact, jointly invaded and divided Poland, thus starting the ww2.
Many european countries signed pact with nazis, lol. That means literally nothing, soviets were trying to rally french, UK, polish etc against germany before the MR pact but their irrational anti communism didnt let there to be any anti german alliance
Poland had invaded soviet ally czechoslovakia.
The two years which soviet got due that pact had there army almost quadrapuled, soviets knew germany would invade thats why they signed the pact to buy some time.
It wasnt an invasion as poland govt had already fled before soviets entered
LOL, what does that even mean. That explanation has propaganda nonsense painted all over it.
It means what I said, soviets didnt want nazis on their border, is there any problem?
Your argument is like saying that if Candace Owens has power, there’s no systemic anti-Black racism in the US.
No my point is the entire point of existence of USSR was anti nationalism and the moment nationalist sentiment got up it collapsed.
I stand with ukraine against russia and all but pretending that ukrainians werent integral part of USSR and were somehow occupied by russians is farce.
You’ve never heard of the holodomor?
I wrote about holodomor few days ago here; https://lemmy.zip/post/59140748/24664135
Ignore the initial swearing
Thanks for confirming that you’re a mindless russian shill.
No shit it was the bread basket. That’s why the USSR took all their grain to russia and left the Ukrainians to starve. It was very much targeted at Ukraine.
You accuse people of falling for propaganda, but you’re the one out there actively peddling propaganda.
We know who you are.
Did you even read what I had written there? if you have already made up your mind then I cant help it
Why would I continue to read what is obviously inane kremlin bootlicking drivel?
Yes, I have already made up my mind about FSB propaganda. The russian federation is a totalitarian and barbaric fascist imperialist nation bent on the destruction of western society with the goal of reshaping the world order in their own image, and they’re willing to lie, cheat, steal, and subvert anything and everything to achieve their goal (which they never will, because they’re weak).
The russian federation should collapse and dissolve and all the regions should balkanize into sovereign nations. Moscow should be reduced to a pariah.
My mind is quite set on this, actually. Want to change my mind? Then pull your forces out of Ukraine and stop bombing them.
Until then, you’re just a b-rated parody of the mongol empire.
Okay