You didn’t make one you just stated something wildly incorrect so why should I take the time to give you a well thought out response trying to explain how truly idiotic is?
I did make one, that you can oppose two things at the same time.
I could explain, but wait, you already said that authoritarianism was meaningless to you. If it doesn’t matter to you, well, seems pointless to try to convince that it is actually fascist.
You’re on lemmy.ml psst they really like chinese authoritarian oppression. (and I’m being honest given the current state and future of the US they’re probably better off indeed, but that doesn’t make them good)
Enough to be very sure that my statement is correct. Just the keyword “Uyghurs” should be enough as a point.
I don’t think I have to explain Authoritarianism? Do I?
I have a few friends that migrated from China so I know a fair bit about it. It’s not as bad as the western propaganda machine (I think at this point you can certainly call it like that) tries to sell it, but I still rather like to live in Europe,
What do you think is happening in Xinjiang? Do you mean the lies about a genocide? Please be specific.
You are treating “authoritarian” as a special category of state. That is simply untrue. Every state is an instrument of organized authority. A state exists precisely to enforce the rule of a particular social order. Laws, police, prisons, intelligence agencies, and armies are not neutral features. They are mechanisms through which the dominant class secures its position and suppresses forces that threaten it. In that sense every state in a class society must act “authoritarian,” because it must compel obedience and defend the structure that produced it. The label therefore functions less as a meaningful description and more as a moral signal. Governments aligned with Western power are described with neutral language such as “government,” while adversaries are cast as “authoritarian” or reduced to the “regime” of a rival country. China becomes “authoritarian China,” Iran becomes the “Iranian regime,” yet the United States is rarely framed through the same lens even when its institutions exercise clear coercive authority, whether through domestic repression such as COINTELPRO or the routine enforcement of property and political order. The distinction therefore obscures the basic reality that all states rest on organized force. What changes from place to place is not the presence of authority but the historical conditions and social interests that direct it.
I still rather like to live in Europe,
And that’s your right like it is mine to say I would never want to live in any of the imperial core nations especially not at this moment in time where austerity and fascism is coming home to them as imperialism declines and the contradictions of capitalism are heightening. I am happy in China.
Do you mean the lies about a genocide? Please be specific.
Do I speak with the Chinese government?
You certainly sound like someone brainwashed by the Chinese government…
I don’t think I need to be specific, there’s a lot of independent journalism about that topic (not lies…), I’m not even sure I can link specific proofs, that may be blocked by the great (fire)wall of China…
Authoritarianism is a political system characterized by the rejection of political plurality, the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo, and reductions in democracy, separation of powers, civil liberties, and the rule of law.
So what is not true about that for China? I think the definition for this particular political system is rather clear.
Less so for fascism, although I’d describe China as having a lot of tendencies to fulfill that term as well (like nationalism, dictatorship, autocracy etc.)
I am happy in China.
Good for you, I honestly would also prefer China currently to what monstrosity is emerging in the US, and yes also Europe is not entirely protected from this monster… Yet e.g. I’m free to swear or make fun about our political leadership (publicly, which often enough happened even with state-funded television), which I think is not true for China (without consequences…)
Not a strong start. You open by implying that if someone disagrees with you on this they must either be part of the Chinese government or “brainwashed.” That’s chauvinism. People here are perfectly capable of thinking for themselves. And if you have proof for your claims you are welcome to post it. Most people who are online regularly have VPNs anyway and even many who aren’t regularly too. What tends to happen in these discussions, though, is that the same small circle of sources gets recycled, often tracing back to figures like Adrian Zenz(evangelical on self proclaimed mission from god to destroy china), Rushan Abbas(Guantanamo bay torturer and pretend activist), and outlets like Radio Free Asia.
It is also worth noting that major international bodies have not formally classified the situation as genocide. The United Nations has raised concerns about human rights abuses but has not declared a genocide. The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, representing dozens of Muslim-majority countries, has not described it that way either. That does not mean nothing problematic happened. During the crackdown on ETIM after the numerous attacks there were clearly heavy-handed policies and abuses. But there is still no credible evidence that meets the legal definition of genocide.
If the standard being applied is simply “serious abuses carried out by the state,” then that label would have to be applied much more broadly. By that logic you could argue the United States is committing genocide against African Americans through decades of structural abuse in policing and incarceration. Practices like dragnet policing and mass surveillance have produced enormous harm. Yet most people understand that this still does not meet the legal threshold for genocide, which is exactly why the distinction matters.
You quoted the definition of authoritarianism from Wikipedia. By that definition a very large portion of the world would qualify, including most Western states in one form or another. Centralized power, limits on certain kinds of political activity, and institutions designed to preserve the political order exist almost everywhere. When a label becomes broad enough to describe nearly every state operating in a world structured by power and class conflict, it stops being analytically useful. Terms like “authoritarian” much like “regime”, (as I tried to illustrate already) are often used as political shorthand for governments that oppose Western geopolitical interests (often with racial undertones).
You also seem to assume that people in China cannot criticize politics or joke about leaders. That is simply not accurate. People complain about policies, argue about politics, and make jokes about officials all the time. The idea that political discussion just does not exist here is a caricature that mostly survives outside the country. If you ever spend real time here and actually talk to ordinary people about politics, you will see very quickly that the reality is far more complex than the version usually presented abroad.
I like it when the working classes in China wield the state against capitalists and fascists, and to ensure that social surplus is directed towards social ends above all else.
Sure not what I took issue with. I took issue with you calling China fascist which is just an untrue statement.
Authoritarian is a pejorative. All countries and states in class society are “authoritarian” by necessity. Fascism is a specific thing arising from the tendency for the rate of profit to decline in capitalist society.
You can keep insisting I’m a troll if it helps you deal with not being able to engage with arguments.
China is authoritarian, but authoritarianism doesn’t matter to you, so that shouldn’t matter to you. Consistency, please.
And no, countries aren’t “authoritarian” by necessity. Even if some amount of policies etc that would be considered such exist everywhere, you have countries that are freer and countries that have more political suppression, censorship of media outlets, etc etc.
China does censor it’s media—political and entertainment— heavily. Just one small example.
How much Chinese media do you watch? How much time have you spent on Chinese social media? How fluent are you in Chinese? Or did you just get told this by other white people and decided to just go along with it because it confirms your biases.
Please take a look through this page that elaborates on the oppression of queer people under the Chinese regime before you make any more personal attacks or assumptions about me. Just as an example.
Find a graph of these views over time, history is not a series of static snapshots. The PRC has been regularly improving with respect to queer rights and representation over time, showing no signs of stopping.
They’re still banning TV shows/clips that feature queer stories or characters, there’s been literal police raids where people have been asked to remove rainbow articles of clothing, rainbows are censored on TV. This is all very recent stuff within the past five years.
Idk man, seems like they’re desperate to erase our existence if you ask me.
Even if it’s not “as bad” as it once was, and if it “has potential”, that’s not where it is right now. Which is that it’s an oppressive place for queer people right now, factually. Stop defending that.
China isn’t the perfect haven free from all criticism that some people make it out to be.
Nice argument.
You didn’t make one you just stated something wildly incorrect so why should I take the time to give you a well thought out response trying to explain how truly idiotic is?
I did make one, that you can oppose two things at the same time.
I could explain, but wait, you already said that authoritarianism was meaningless to you. If it doesn’t matter to you, well, seems pointless to try to convince that it is actually fascist.
You’re on lemmy.ml psst they really like chinese authoritarian oppression. (and I’m being honest given the current state and future of the US they’re probably better off indeed, but that doesn’t make them good)
What do you actually know about China?
“authoritarian oppression” entirely meaningless when stripped of context.
Enough to be very sure that my statement is correct. Just the keyword “Uyghurs” should be enough as a point.
I don’t think I have to explain Authoritarianism? Do I?
I have a few friends that migrated from China so I know a fair bit about it. It’s not as bad as the western propaganda machine (I think at this point you can certainly call it like that) tries to sell it, but I still rather like to live in Europe,
What do you think is happening in Xinjiang? Do you mean the lies about a genocide? Please be specific.
You are treating “authoritarian” as a special category of state. That is simply untrue. Every state is an instrument of organized authority. A state exists precisely to enforce the rule of a particular social order. Laws, police, prisons, intelligence agencies, and armies are not neutral features. They are mechanisms through which the dominant class secures its position and suppresses forces that threaten it. In that sense every state in a class society must act “authoritarian,” because it must compel obedience and defend the structure that produced it. The label therefore functions less as a meaningful description and more as a moral signal. Governments aligned with Western power are described with neutral language such as “government,” while adversaries are cast as “authoritarian” or reduced to the “regime” of a rival country. China becomes “authoritarian China,” Iran becomes the “Iranian regime,” yet the United States is rarely framed through the same lens even when its institutions exercise clear coercive authority, whether through domestic repression such as COINTELPRO or the routine enforcement of property and political order. The distinction therefore obscures the basic reality that all states rest on organized force. What changes from place to place is not the presence of authority but the historical conditions and social interests that direct it.
And that’s your right like it is mine to say I would never want to live in any of the imperial core nations especially not at this moment in time where austerity and fascism is coming home to them as imperialism declines and the contradictions of capitalism are heightening. I am happy in China.
Do I speak with the Chinese government?
You certainly sound like someone brainwashed by the Chinese government… I don’t think I need to be specific, there’s a lot of independent journalism about that topic (not lies…), I’m not even sure I can link specific proofs, that may be blocked by the great (fire)wall of China…
Taking the first sentence from the Wiki:
So what is not true about that for China? I think the definition for this particular political system is rather clear. Less so for fascism, although I’d describe China as having a lot of tendencies to fulfill that term as well (like nationalism, dictatorship, autocracy etc.)
Good for you, I honestly would also prefer China currently to what monstrosity is emerging in the US, and yes also Europe is not entirely protected from this monster… Yet e.g. I’m free to swear or make fun about our political leadership (publicly, which often enough happened even with state-funded television), which I think is not true for China (without consequences…)
Not a strong start. You open by implying that if someone disagrees with you on this they must either be part of the Chinese government or “brainwashed.” That’s chauvinism. People here are perfectly capable of thinking for themselves. And if you have proof for your claims you are welcome to post it. Most people who are online regularly have VPNs anyway and even many who aren’t regularly too. What tends to happen in these discussions, though, is that the same small circle of sources gets recycled, often tracing back to figures like Adrian Zenz(evangelical on self proclaimed mission from god to destroy china), Rushan Abbas(Guantanamo bay torturer and pretend activist), and outlets like Radio Free Asia.
It is also worth noting that major international bodies have not formally classified the situation as genocide. The United Nations has raised concerns about human rights abuses but has not declared a genocide. The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, representing dozens of Muslim-majority countries, has not described it that way either. That does not mean nothing problematic happened. During the crackdown on ETIM after the numerous attacks there were clearly heavy-handed policies and abuses. But there is still no credible evidence that meets the legal definition of genocide.
If the standard being applied is simply “serious abuses carried out by the state,” then that label would have to be applied much more broadly. By that logic you could argue the United States is committing genocide against African Americans through decades of structural abuse in policing and incarceration. Practices like dragnet policing and mass surveillance have produced enormous harm. Yet most people understand that this still does not meet the legal threshold for genocide, which is exactly why the distinction matters.
You quoted the definition of authoritarianism from Wikipedia. By that definition a very large portion of the world would qualify, including most Western states in one form or another. Centralized power, limits on certain kinds of political activity, and institutions designed to preserve the political order exist almost everywhere. When a label becomes broad enough to describe nearly every state operating in a world structured by power and class conflict, it stops being analytically useful. Terms like “authoritarian” much like “regime”, (as I tried to illustrate already) are often used as political shorthand for governments that oppose Western geopolitical interests (often with racial undertones).
You also seem to assume that people in China cannot criticize politics or joke about leaders. That is simply not accurate. People complain about policies, argue about politics, and make jokes about officials all the time. The idea that political discussion just does not exist here is a caricature that mostly survives outside the country. If you ever spend real time here and actually talk to ordinary people about politics, you will see very quickly that the reality is far more complex than the version usually presented abroad.
I like it when the working classes in China wield the state against capitalists and fascists, and to ensure that social surplus is directed towards social ends above all else.
You have to be a troll.
Sure not what I took issue with. I took issue with you calling China fascist which is just an untrue statement.
Authoritarian is a pejorative. All countries and states in class society are “authoritarian” by necessity. Fascism is a specific thing arising from the tendency for the rate of profit to decline in capitalist society.
You can keep insisting I’m a troll if it helps you deal with not being able to engage with arguments.
China is authoritarian, but authoritarianism doesn’t matter to you, so that shouldn’t matter to you. Consistency, please.
And no, countries aren’t “authoritarian” by necessity. Even if some amount of policies etc that would be considered such exist everywhere, you have countries that are freer and countries that have more political suppression, censorship of media outlets, etc etc.
China does censor it’s media—political and entertainment— heavily. Just one small example.
How much Chinese media do you watch? How much time have you spent on Chinese social media? How fluent are you in Chinese? Or did you just get told this by other white people and decided to just go along with it because it confirms your biases.
https://www.equaldex.com/region/china
Please take a look through this page that elaborates on the oppression of queer people under the Chinese regime before you make any more personal attacks or assumptions about me. Just as an example.
Find a graph of these views over time, history is not a series of static snapshots. The PRC has been regularly improving with respect to queer rights and representation over time, showing no signs of stopping.
They’re still banning TV shows/clips that feature queer stories or characters, there’s been literal police raids where people have been asked to remove rainbow articles of clothing, rainbows are censored on TV. This is all very recent stuff within the past five years.
Idk man, seems like they’re desperate to erase our existence if you ask me.
Even if it’s not “as bad” as it once was, and if it “has potential”, that’s not where it is right now. Which is that it’s an oppressive place for queer people right now, factually. Stop defending that.
China isn’t the perfect haven free from all criticism that some people make it out to be.