The EU is a coaliton of right-wing imperialist states, this is true.
Not really all right wing but perhaps compared to your politics. Or mine tbh
Russia isn’t imperialist
I’m confused about this. I checked to see if I had the right definition, just in case, and this is wikipedia’s:
imperialism is the maintaining and extending of power over foreign nations, particularly through expansionism, employing both hard power and soft power.
How does this not perfectly describe what Russia is doing in Ukraine?
Do you have an alternative definition you’re working with?
All EU member states are capitalist and depend on imperialism and neocolonialism. In that sense, they are all right wing, left wing countries would be like China and Cuba.
As for imperialism, the first part of the definition is vague enough that it applies to countries like Burkina Faso kicking France out of Africa, while the second would make the Statesian North annexing the confederacy “imperialism.” Wikipedia affirmatively takes the definition of imperialism that makes it as vague as possible, reducing it to a policy preference rather than a materialist system with definite causes and necessary conclusions.
Imperialism in the modern era, as course of fact, is a stage in capitalist development. When markets are fully saturated domestically, capital expands outward. Once industrial and bank capital grow, they merge and dominate the entire economy, resulting in the dominance of finance capital in the economy and an export of capital, rather than commodities. This is how the west plunders the world in the modern era, and what Russia cannot do.
Imperialism in the modern era, as course of fact, is a stage in capitalist development. When markets are fully saturated domestically, capital expands outward. Once industrial and bank capital grow, they merge and dominate the entire economy, resulting in the dominance of finance capital in the economy and an export of capital, rather than commodities. This is how the west plunders the world in the modern era, and what Russia cannot do.
So…what do you call BRICS, then? Just because the Imperialism is currently less influential than its competition, doesn’t stop it from being Imperialism.
Simply stating something as if it were a fact, doesn’t make it true. BRICS perfectly fits the description you gave. It’s literally an alternative market, centered around the countries typically excluded by the “Western market”. By its own definition, it was formed to compete with Western markets for global economic influence, and to expand the market capabilities of its member states.
That fits every criteria of your limited definition of imperialism.
Russia also fits the standard definition of an imperialist state due to their hostile military occupations of neighboring countries, as well as their aggressive influence campaigns targeting foreign governments around the world. They literally check every single box.
BRICS is an international trade organization, not a means by which a tiny cluster of countries that are dominated by finance capital gain money by exporting capital and expropriate wealth from the global south. This is why BRICS is made up of largely developing economies. It absolutely does not fit my definition in the slightest.
Secondly, war is not imperialism. War can be done to cement it or aid it, but it is not itself imperialism. Otherwise Burkina Faso kicking France out would be “imperialism” against France.
Lol! “It does not fit your definition in the slightest” because you are ignoring all the things that define it as an economic system. You said it yourself…it is an “international trade organization”. What exactly do you think the purpose of that, is? Why does it exist?
C’mon, man. I know you aren’t that dim.
And war is absolutely imperialism, when the objectives are to expand wealth through land and resource acquisition. Especially when force is used to acquire those lands and resources. Russia tried to get it through regime change first, and when the people of Ukraine rejected those efforts…they invaded.
That is literally the defining characteristic of classic imperialism. Expansion through dominance.
Trade is not imperialism, I quite literally explained how the export of capital as opposed to commodities as a means to enrich the imperialist countries at the expense of others is imperialism. BRICS is about cooperative trade agreements.
As for expansion, no, it isn’t inherently imperialism, nor is war. The Statesian North absorbing the confederacy would be imperialism by your vague definition.
That’s exactly what Americans say when someone calls the US an empire. It’s a pretty lame deflection considering it ignores the application of economic dominance they use to get what they want from other countries.
I quite literally explained how the export of capital as opposed to commodities as a means to enrich the imperialist countries at the expense of others
You seem to think that imperialism is somehow limited to just Capitalist countries. Your definition also conveniently ignores the fact that you can obviously export both capital and commodities. What makes it “imperialism” isn’t “what” is being exported…it’s simply the fact that the smaller country’s resources are being consumed by the larger, in order to sustain its own existence and expand its sphere of influence.
Imperialism is all about dominance. Economic dominance. Political dominance. Military dominance.
Economic dominance is the most subtle and least invasive form of control. This is where the imperialist nation simply purchases influence in the smaller country by buying up companies, land and resources. The end result being, all the wealth generated by the smaller economy is being syphoned off and absorbed by the larger economy. This is the typical method used by Capitalist countries, and the only definition you seem to think applies to Imperialism. It isn’t. As I said, this is just the least invasive form of dominance.
The 2nd form of dominance is political. If the smaller nation resists the larger nation’s efforts to take over their economy peacefully, they will take steps to replace that nation’s leadership with loyalists who won’t resist…ie regime change. This doesn’t even necessarily have to be violent. The imperialist nation simply needs to pour resources into getting the right people places in key positions, and slowly take over the smaller nation’s government one office at a time, until there is no one left to resist their efforts to take control of their resources.
The 3rd and final form of dominance is violence. If the efforts to take control of the smaller nation’s government are somehow resisted, the final and most invasive actions will be employed. They will take control of those resources by force. Invasion. Annexation. Subjugation.
Russia employs all three of these forms of dominance, just like the US does. There is no difference in their tactics…only in their rhetoric when they try to justify their actions. They accuse each other of all the same crimes, that they themselves are guilty of committing. Anyone trying to defend this, by claiming that only “the other side” is doing it, is being intentionally disingenuous.
I see where you’re coming from now. I think if you define imperialism in that way, it makes sense that you would consider all of those countries imperialist.
When markets are fully saturated domestically, capital expands outward. Once industrial and bank capital grow, they merge and dominate the entire economy, resulting in the dominance of finance capital in the economy …
But this whole description seems weird to me. Are there any powerful capitalist countries that could avoid this?
And I still don’t think Russia could possibly escape this definition. They have BRICS and are a major oil trader. They physically are trying to occupy another country right now. They use Russian language and state media to influence Eastern European countries in particular.
Capitalist countries cannot avoid becoming imperialist as they grow, but the pond is finite, with a gang of imperialist countries at the top. This forces the rest of the world into contention with imperialism. As for Russia, trade and BRICS are not imperialism. Russia has an absolutely paltry sum of finance capital, and runs largely on production and export of commodities.
So Russia with more finance capital and less commodities trade would be imperialist, but the way it is, they aren’t?
I think I get what you’re saying now. But it seems so arbitrary. Why should I give a shit who’s imperialist by this specific definition? It would basically make 0% difference to how much Russia is a problem for the world
The problem is that the entire world is already divided up between the imperialist powers. Rising capitalist powers cannot simply take their imperialist share, because there’s nowhere to gobble up. This causes conflict between imperialist powers, like the schism rising between the US as the world’s imperial hegemon and core imperialist countries like the UK, France, and Germany. The important bit is that Russia is playing a progressive role against imperialism.
The definition of imperialism is not arbitrary, it describes a system that results in immense plunder and underdevelopment of the global south. The west has its riches off the backs of the global south, to this day. Russia does not. If Russia was to join NATO, join the EU, transition to a more imperialist economy, etc then it would go from playing a progressive role against imperialism to playing an actively imperialist role.
Imperialism is not arbitrary. It’s the largest global obstacle to human progress, and the advance of socialism.
I think I answered pretty well, the US and EU are the core imperialist countries, the global south is largely imperialized. Most countries aren’t imperialist.
Not really all right wing but perhaps compared to your politics. Or mine tbh
I’m confused about this. I checked to see if I had the right definition, just in case, and this is wikipedia’s:
How does this not perfectly describe what Russia is doing in Ukraine?
Do you have an alternative definition you’re working with?
All EU member states are capitalist and depend on imperialism and neocolonialism. In that sense, they are all right wing, left wing countries would be like China and Cuba.
As for imperialism, the first part of the definition is vague enough that it applies to countries like Burkina Faso kicking France out of Africa, while the second would make the Statesian North annexing the confederacy “imperialism.” Wikipedia affirmatively takes the definition of imperialism that makes it as vague as possible, reducing it to a policy preference rather than a materialist system with definite causes and necessary conclusions.
Imperialism in the modern era, as course of fact, is a stage in capitalist development. When markets are fully saturated domestically, capital expands outward. Once industrial and bank capital grow, they merge and dominate the entire economy, resulting in the dominance of finance capital in the economy and an export of capital, rather than commodities. This is how the west plunders the world in the modern era, and what Russia cannot do.
So…what do you call BRICS, then? Just because the Imperialism is currently less influential than its competition, doesn’t stop it from being Imperialism.
Trade is not imperialism. BRICS is not imperialist.
Simply stating something as if it were a fact, doesn’t make it true. BRICS perfectly fits the description you gave. It’s literally an alternative market, centered around the countries typically excluded by the “Western market”. By its own definition, it was formed to compete with Western markets for global economic influence, and to expand the market capabilities of its member states.
That fits every criteria of your limited definition of imperialism.
Russia also fits the standard definition of an imperialist state due to their hostile military occupations of neighboring countries, as well as their aggressive influence campaigns targeting foreign governments around the world. They literally check every single box.
BRICS is an international trade organization, not a means by which a tiny cluster of countries that are dominated by finance capital gain money by exporting capital and expropriate wealth from the global south. This is why BRICS is made up of largely developing economies. It absolutely does not fit my definition in the slightest.
Secondly, war is not imperialism. War can be done to cement it or aid it, but it is not itself imperialism. Otherwise Burkina Faso kicking France out would be “imperialism” against France.
Lol! “It does not fit your definition in the slightest” because you are ignoring all the things that define it as an economic system. You said it yourself…it is an “international trade organization”. What exactly do you think the purpose of that, is? Why does it exist?
C’mon, man. I know you aren’t that dim.
And war is absolutely imperialism, when the objectives are to expand wealth through land and resource acquisition. Especially when force is used to acquire those lands and resources. Russia tried to get it through regime change first, and when the people of Ukraine rejected those efforts…they invaded.
That is literally the defining characteristic of classic imperialism. Expansion through dominance.
Trade is not imperialism, I quite literally explained how the export of capital as opposed to commodities as a means to enrich the imperialist countries at the expense of others is imperialism. BRICS is about cooperative trade agreements.
As for expansion, no, it isn’t inherently imperialism, nor is war. The Statesian North absorbing the confederacy would be imperialism by your vague definition.
That’s exactly what Americans say when someone calls the US an empire. It’s a pretty lame deflection considering it ignores the application of economic dominance they use to get what they want from other countries.
You seem to think that imperialism is somehow limited to just Capitalist countries. Your definition also conveniently ignores the fact that you can obviously export both capital and commodities. What makes it “imperialism” isn’t “what” is being exported…it’s simply the fact that the smaller country’s resources are being consumed by the larger, in order to sustain its own existence and expand its sphere of influence.
Imperialism is all about dominance. Economic dominance. Political dominance. Military dominance.
Economic dominance is the most subtle and least invasive form of control. This is where the imperialist nation simply purchases influence in the smaller country by buying up companies, land and resources. The end result being, all the wealth generated by the smaller economy is being syphoned off and absorbed by the larger economy. This is the typical method used by Capitalist countries, and the only definition you seem to think applies to Imperialism. It isn’t. As I said, this is just the least invasive form of dominance.
The 2nd form of dominance is political. If the smaller nation resists the larger nation’s efforts to take over their economy peacefully, they will take steps to replace that nation’s leadership with loyalists who won’t resist…ie regime change. This doesn’t even necessarily have to be violent. The imperialist nation simply needs to pour resources into getting the right people places in key positions, and slowly take over the smaller nation’s government one office at a time, until there is no one left to resist their efforts to take control of their resources.
The 3rd and final form of dominance is violence. If the efforts to take control of the smaller nation’s government are somehow resisted, the final and most invasive actions will be employed. They will take control of those resources by force. Invasion. Annexation. Subjugation.
Russia employs all three of these forms of dominance, just like the US does. There is no difference in their tactics…only in their rhetoric when they try to justify their actions. They accuse each other of all the same crimes, that they themselves are guilty of committing. Anyone trying to defend this, by claiming that only “the other side” is doing it, is being intentionally disingenuous.
I see where you’re coming from now. I think if you define imperialism in that way, it makes sense that you would consider all of those countries imperialist.
But this whole description seems weird to me. Are there any powerful capitalist countries that could avoid this?
And I still don’t think Russia could possibly escape this definition. They have BRICS and are a major oil trader. They physically are trying to occupy another country right now. They use Russian language and state media to influence Eastern European countries in particular.
Capitalist countries cannot avoid becoming imperialist as they grow, but the pond is finite, with a gang of imperialist countries at the top. This forces the rest of the world into contention with imperialism. As for Russia, trade and BRICS are not imperialism. Russia has an absolutely paltry sum of finance capital, and runs largely on production and export of commodities.
So Russia with more finance capital and less commodities trade would be imperialist, but the way it is, they aren’t?
I think I get what you’re saying now. But it seems so arbitrary. Why should I give a shit who’s imperialist by this specific definition? It would basically make 0% difference to how much Russia is a problem for the world
The problem is that the entire world is already divided up between the imperialist powers. Rising capitalist powers cannot simply take their imperialist share, because there’s nowhere to gobble up. This causes conflict between imperialist powers, like the schism rising between the US as the world’s imperial hegemon and core imperialist countries like the UK, France, and Germany. The important bit is that Russia is playing a progressive role against imperialism.
The definition of imperialism is not arbitrary, it describes a system that results in immense plunder and underdevelopment of the global south. The west has its riches off the backs of the global south, to this day. Russia does not. If Russia was to join NATO, join the EU, transition to a more imperialist economy, etc then it would go from playing a progressive role against imperialism to playing an actively imperialist role.
Imperialism is not arbitrary. It’s the largest global obstacle to human progress, and the advance of socialism.
Hmm OK. I don’t think you really addressed my question but it’s fine. Everyone’s imperialist. Except Russia of course, famously progressive Russia.
Anyway, thanks for explaining what you meant
I think I answered pretty well, the US and EU are the core imperialist countries, the global south is largely imperialized. Most countries aren’t imperialist.
Would Russia be imperialist if everything was the same except they had more finance capital and less commodities trade?