Germany’s upper house of parliament, the Bundesrat, has introduced a bill seeking to ban the questioning of Israel’s right to exist. It is now up to the lower house to decide whether to turn it into law.
Locking this thread because this will not end well.
You’d think this country could spot a Nazi when they see one, but alas
Questioning Israel’s right to exist is terrible but doesn’t make somebody a Nazi
Doing what Israel does makes it a Nazi country.
Nations have been invented, erased, and merged countless times throughout history. Claiming nations have a Right to exist, opens a literal world of legal problems.
China used to be several nations. The Americas used to be thousands. Korea used to be one. So did the USSR. Even the current Israel was only created after WW2 by forcing Palestinians out of their homes.
So no. Israel can’t have a “Right to Exist”. The world doesn’t work that way, and can’t afford to. People claiming it does, are either ignorant, or trying to justify (in this case, maybe atone for) atrocities.
Let me ask you a semi-rhetorical question that I assume (and hope) has an obvious answer: do you think the people of Israel should be wiped out?
Hint: I’m assuming (and hoping) that the obvious answer is “no”.
To carry out a conversation on this subject, I think it’s important to clarify EXACTLY what is meant, both explicitly and implicitly, by the statement “Israel has no right to exist”.
People Do have a right to exist.
Removing people from existence is generally frowned upon. No matter what the name of the place they happen to live in is.I’m worried by the fact that your answer didn’t include the simple word “no” (edit: it does NOW, but… you know what I mean), but for now I’m going to assume that you’re being cagey because you think I’m trying to trick you with sophistry. I’m not trying to trick you - I’m trying to establish common ground - we are starting from the same premise of not wanting people to die - so that when my line of thinking at some point diverges from yours, you can see my thinking and hopefully my point. And/or perhaps I’ll understand yours a little better.
So let’s try another semi-rhetorical question (I say semi-rhetorical because while I hope I can already guess what your answer will be, I also genuinely want to know if my guess is wrong).
If Israel can be persuaded to stop attacking Palestinians, to stop trying to push Palestinians out of the land they live in, and even return to the 1949 borders as they recognize a full state of Palestine, that would be good, yes? And the comflict would no longer need to continue, yes?
Sure. That would be great if they did all that!
I assume. I don’t know the details of the '49 borders. But generally yah, if they stopped being dicks, people wouldn’t have a problem with them.
Got it backwards, friend
Acting like a Nazi makes you a Nazi. It is very self labeling.
lol, what?
I think it’s just that actual Germans have a really specific definition of what it means to be a Nazi, rather than just a fascist, solidly locked in the path to being a fascist, or somebody that acts like a fascist, talks like a fascist, and does fascist stuff.
Now, I may jokingly theorize that it’s because a lot of Germans would fall into that category and need to rigidly define it so as to know where the boundaries are in order to skirt them, but in reality, it’s either actually that or because a LOT of Germans really really really fucking hate Nazis and take it really really seriously.
Cool, now make it illegal to disrupt peaceful anti-genocide protests. Oh wait, it already is…
(For any non germans in here: if a protest has the slightest wiff of being pro palestine it gets disbanded at light speed, sometimes brutally)
I visited Berlin recently and there was a pro Palestine protest every other day. What on earth are you talking about?
The amount of pure fiction being spread as fact surrounding this conflict is quite staggering. What you replied to is a comparatively harmless (if common) example of it.
Honestly the world doesn’t really need any individual state but proper protection and circumstances for the people. And the state of Israel isn’t a direct and proper representation for all Jewish people. Might as well pass this law for all countries and Palestine as well. I don’t think Israel should cease to exist, I think they need a sharp change in government and to stop all unlawful settlements and human right infringements. Otherwise they will never make peace with their neighbors. But think of the people at hand okay.
In actual terms the historical debt of germany has been misunderstood by center-right politicians. Our debt from the Nazi regime is clearly towards jewish life, deeply so. Yet even more human dignity and humanitarian law are the core of the belief. They should stand in the center so its an awful excuse to use to ignore Israels wrong-doings.
All-in all the law looks like a nothingburger tho:
He described the draft legislation as “very deliberately drafted in narrowly defined terms.” The aim, he said, was to address “calls glorifying violence” aimed at Israel’s destruction.
Calls for violence are already illegal, i haven’t read the proposal tho
I think it’s good Nazi Germany has ceased to exist.
I want the equivalent for Israel, except there has never been a truly democratic, non-colonist, non-apartheid, non-genocidal Israel for it to revert to. Israel cannot exist with what you’re asking/hoping for. It’s utterly incompatible.
Removed by mod
I deny the Bundesrat’s right to decide on that topic.
