Is this necessarily a good idea? Because of the fundamentals of how EV charging differs from filling up gasoline - the former being a fairly slow process, possibly taking as much as an hour, and the latter taking mere minutes - the facilities around them should be designed differently to account for that difference.
Combining charging facilities with places you naturally park your vehicle for some extended time has generally been wise, for example workplace parking, parking at home and supermarkets. I’d guess this likely covers basically the whole usecase for local trips for most car owners. This then leaves long-distance trips, where you’d want something closer to a truck stop facility than a gas station, where you can have a meal, go to the bathroom and maybe even take a shower, passing the time while waiting for your vehicle to charge.
Forcing most gas stations to install chargers neglects the difference between EVs and ICEs in a bad way, and is arguably wasteful. What should be done in its place is to successively replace existing gas stations with other more productive uses, and build appropriate charging facilities for EVs where they make sense.
This article actually covers a specific kind of gas stations in Germany along the Autobahn, that are centrally regulated and are, exactly as you say, also truck stops with lots of amenities and space.
I just did a trip from Copenhagen to the south of France (1900 km) in an EV. The biggest issue for our trip was that Tesla’s superchargers were half the price of the other networks, but were never at the typical rest stops that also have bathrooms, 24 hour shops, etc. So we opted for the cheap charging over amenities.
I think there is more to this. In Sweden OK/Q8 their main chain of gas stations is installing chargers at many station and more coming every day.
Similar in Denmark.
the business model does seem to own out. Germany sells nearly as many EVs (as a %of all car sales) not sure why the progress is slower in Germany.
There are some stubborn car/ICE centric cultural and commerce cliques in Germany. Perhaps this is a response to them? But I feel there is more to it than meets the eye.
In Germany a lot of charging stations are built by the electricity grid operators. So they usually end up on parking lots of stores or near municipality buildings(a lot of them are owned by the local municipality). Howver neither puts up some big signs to really advertise it. So it is easy to miss them, even when using a navgation system. Like there should be one on the parking lot, but it is behind the building or some weird stuff like that.
That being said there is easily enough of them to cover the country.
Modern fast charing station can charge 100km of range within 5min or so. That is very usefull in a lot of locations. Obviously most charging will occure at home or at work, but it makes perfect sense to add them at large roads and thats were petrol stations usually are. Even more to the point a lot of petrol stations have small shops attached to this, so that makes even more sense.
Long term I guess we will have charging at a lot of parking spots and fast charging at motorway stations. So you go have lunch or some other meal and in the meantime recharge your car for the next part of your trip. Most charging however would happen at home.
Gas stations in Germany are not making much money with the gas sales themselves. The main companies behind them, like Shell, BP and co. do but the stations are usually franchised. They mostly make their money by doubling as a shop that is open atearly and late hours and on sundays, as many German muncipalities ban other shops from being open then.
So people often also buy something, or particularly in the morning get some breakfast and a coffee. Perfect time to charge the car a bit.
If the argument is that it’s a good business idea, then the mandate shouldn’t need to exist, since companies would do it on their own.
My own guess is that it makes more sense in restaurant parking lots. People will take a while there, whereas gas stations are aimed at quickly getting someone in and out.
Capitalism only in theory makes good business ideas happen by itself. The reality is that opportunism, stranded assets, and ideologival affiliations are in the way.
It is a good business idea, when EVs become the standard. But for the fossil lobby making that happen as lare as possible or preventing it in the first place will always be more attractive, as that is the business they are invested with hundreds of billions in, that is the business where they have the control and that is the business where they have the network of autocracies and corrupt governments doing their bidding.
What you’re saying is true. But charging technology is improving too. I’d argue that if you use ultra fast charging stations everywhere, your cars should be charged within 15 minutes to 1 hour. If done wisely, 10 minute charges in every stop might be the difference between not doing a trip vs actually using the vehicle.
Of course, I’m talking taking Spain’s infrastructure into account, which is jackshit in this regard.
Is this necessarily a good idea? Because of the fundamentals of how EV charging differs from filling up gasoline - the former being a fairly slow process, possibly taking as much as an hour, and the latter taking mere minutes - the facilities around them should be designed differently to account for that difference.
Combining charging facilities with places you naturally park your vehicle for some extended time has generally been wise, for example workplace parking, parking at home and supermarkets. I’d guess this likely covers basically the whole usecase for local trips for most car owners. This then leaves long-distance trips, where you’d want something closer to a truck stop facility than a gas station, where you can have a meal, go to the bathroom and maybe even take a shower, passing the time while waiting for your vehicle to charge.
Forcing most gas stations to install chargers neglects the difference between EVs and ICEs in a bad way, and is arguably wasteful. What should be done in its place is to successively replace existing gas stations with other more productive uses, and build appropriate charging facilities for EVs where they make sense.
This article actually covers a specific kind of gas stations in Germany along the Autobahn, that are centrally regulated and are, exactly as you say, also truck stops with lots of amenities and space.
I just did a trip from Copenhagen to the south of France (1900 km) in an EV. The biggest issue for our trip was that Tesla’s superchargers were half the price of the other networks, but were never at the typical rest stops that also have bathrooms, 24 hour shops, etc. So we opted for the cheap charging over amenities.
Also probably small petrol/gas station might not have sufficient space due to the ATEX area limitation. (Directive for Explosive area equipment)
In the sense it’s possible, but it cannot be close to the fuel distributor.
I think there is more to this. In Sweden OK/Q8 their main chain of gas stations is installing chargers at many station and more coming every day.
Similar in Denmark.
the business model does seem to own out. Germany sells nearly as many EVs (as a %of all car sales) not sure why the progress is slower in Germany.
There are some stubborn car/ICE centric cultural and commerce cliques in Germany. Perhaps this is a response to them? But I feel there is more to it than meets the eye.
In Germany a lot of charging stations are built by the electricity grid operators. So they usually end up on parking lots of stores or near municipality buildings(a lot of them are owned by the local municipality). Howver neither puts up some big signs to really advertise it. So it is easy to miss them, even when using a navgation system. Like there should be one on the parking lot, but it is behind the building or some weird stuff like that.
That being said there is easily enough of them to cover the country.
How? I mean, a satellite navigation system can get you within a meter or two of the destination.
If the current navigation systems don’t list precisely the location of the charging stations, that seems more like an issue with the databases.
Modern fast charing station can charge 100km of range within 5min or so. That is very usefull in a lot of locations. Obviously most charging will occure at home or at work, but it makes perfect sense to add them at large roads and thats were petrol stations usually are. Even more to the point a lot of petrol stations have small shops attached to this, so that makes even more sense.
Long term I guess we will have charging at a lot of parking spots and fast charging at motorway stations. So you go have lunch or some other meal and in the meantime recharge your car for the next part of your trip. Most charging however would happen at home.
Gas stations in Germany are not making much money with the gas sales themselves. The main companies behind them, like Shell, BP and co. do but the stations are usually franchised. They mostly make their money by doubling as a shop that is open atearly and late hours and on sundays, as many German muncipalities ban other shops from being open then.
So people often also buy something, or particularly in the morning get some breakfast and a coffee. Perfect time to charge the car a bit.
If the argument is that it’s a good business idea, then the mandate shouldn’t need to exist, since companies would do it on their own.
My own guess is that it makes more sense in restaurant parking lots. People will take a while there, whereas gas stations are aimed at quickly getting someone in and out.
Capitalism only in theory makes good business ideas happen by itself. The reality is that opportunism, stranded assets, and ideologival affiliations are in the way.
It is a good business idea, when EVs become the standard. But for the fossil lobby making that happen as lare as possible or preventing it in the first place will always be more attractive, as that is the business they are invested with hundreds of billions in, that is the business where they have the control and that is the business where they have the network of autocracies and corrupt governments doing their bidding.
deleted by creator
What you’re saying is true. But charging technology is improving too. I’d argue that if you use ultra fast charging stations everywhere, your cars should be charged within 15 minutes to 1 hour. If done wisely, 10 minute charges in every stop might be the difference between not doing a trip vs actually using the vehicle.
Of course, I’m talking taking Spain’s infrastructure into account, which is jackshit in this regard.
I’m just glad we’re getting state-subsidzed EV infrastructure. The more the better.
I’d much rather see transportation subsidies going to more efficient means of transportation, like trains.
We can do both! Don’t shit too much on good progress.