Police investigation remains open. The photo of one of the minors included a fly; that is the logo of Clothoff, the application that is presumably being used to create the images, which promotes its services with the slogan: “Undress anybody with our free service!”
This was just a matter of time - and there isn’t really that much the affected can do (and in some cases, should do). Shutting down that service is the correct thing - but that’ll only buy a short amount of time: Training custom models is trivial nowadays, and both the skill and hardware to do so is in reach of the age group in question.
So in the long term we’ll see that shift to images generated at home, by kids often too young to be prosecuted - and you won’t be able to stop that unless you start outlawing most of AI image generation tools.
At least in Germany the dealing with child/youth pornography got badly botched by incompetent populists in the government - which would send any of those parents to jail for at least a year, if they take possession of one of those generated pictures. Having it sent to their phone and going to police for a complaint would be sufficient to get prosecution against them started.
There’s one blessing coming out of that mess, though: For girls who did take pictures, and had them leaked, saying “they’re AI generated” is becoming a plausible way out.
There’s one blessing coming out of that mess, though: For girls who did take pictures, and had them leaked, saying “they’re AI generated” is becoming a plausible way out.
Indeed, once the AI gets good enough, the value of pictures and videos will plummet to zero.
Ironically, in a sense we will revert back to the era before photography existed. To verify if something is real, we might have to rely on witness testimony.
Politics is about to get WILD
Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho approves!
Shit’s going to get real emotional
I’d vote for Terry Crews. No lie.
Indeed, once the AI gets good enough, the value of pictures and videos will plummet to zero.
This just isn’t true. They will still be used to sexualise people, mostly girls and women, against their consent. It’s no different from AI-generated child pornography. It does harm even if no ‘real’ people appear in the images.
Fucking horrible world we’re forced to live in. Where’s the fucking exit?
It is different than AI-generated CSAM because real people are actually being harmed by these deepfake images.
I was replying to someone who was claiming they aren’t harmful as long as everyone knows they’re fake. Maybe nitpick them, not me?
Reak kids are harmed by AI CSAM normalising a problem they should be seeking help for, not getting off on.
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Not getting beyond your first sentence here. I am not interested in what fucked up laws have been passed. Nor in engaging with someone who wants to argue that any form of child porn is somehow OK.
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Im addressing you because you made the claim they are equivalent when they clearly are not.
No I didn’t. Go nitpick someone else.
Or better still, explain why you think AI-generated CSAM isn’t harmful. FFS
Let’s be real here:
Sure, it’s not illegal. But if I find “those kinds” of AI-generated images on someone’s phone or computer, the fact that it’s AI-generated will not improve my view of that person in any possible way.
Even if it’s technically “legal”.
They tellin’ on themselves.
People who consume any kind of cp are dangerous and encouraging thar behavior is just as criminal. I’m glad that shit is illegal in most civilized countries.
Sauce that allowing computer generated cp causes more harm?
How is this place infested with so many fucking nonces?
I made no claims about “more harm” so what imaginary claim are you referring to in your attempt to justify CSAM?
Oh, so you want more harm. Curious.
To verify if something is real, we might have to rely on witness testimony.
This is not going to work. Just because images and videos become less reliable that doesn’t mean we will forget about the fact that eyewitness testimony is very unreliable.
You say “forget” like it’s not still incredibly common as evidence.
There’s lots of data showing that eyewitnesses aren’t reliable but that doesn’t mean courts actually stopped relying on it. Ai making another form of evidence untrustworthy will result in eyewitnesses taking its place.
A bit off topic, but I wonder if the entertainment industry as a whole is going to be completely destroyed by AI when it gets good enough.
I can totally see myself prompting “a movie about love in the style of Star Wars, with Ryan Gosling and Audrey Hepburn as the leads, directed by Alfred Hitchcock, written by Vincent Hugo.” And then what? It’s game over for any content creation.
Curious if I’ll see that kind of power at home (using open source tools) in my lifetime.
I envisage a world where your browsing Netflix, and based on past preferences some of the title cards are generated on the fly for you. Then based on what you click, the AI engine warms us and generates the film for you in real-time. Essentially indistinguishable from the majority of Hollywood regurgitation.
And because the script is just a series of autogenerated prompts, its like a choose your own adventure book, you can steer the narrative the way you want if you elect to. Otherwise it’ll be good enough to keep most monkey brains happy and you won’t even be able to tell the difference most of the time.
Then the real money will be in hipster retro human-generated movies
And it will work, because we’ve grown used to Hollywood being so repetitive.
I know it’s impossible to perfectly predict future technology, but I believe AI will exist alongside traditional filmmaking. You’ll NEVER get something with the emotional impact of Up or Schindler’s List from an AI. You’ll be able to make fun action or fantasy movies though, and like you said, fully customized for the viewer. I imagine it’ll be like CGI vs traditional animation now - you only see the latter for passion projects, but for most uses, CGI works well enough.
This is already starting to happen for digital illustration. With better models and enough images saved, you can already train a model to replicate the art created by an artist.
Not so much replicate as simulate or produce art on the style of that artist.
AI can’t replicate a piece of art unless it’s only trained on that one piece of art, at which point you don’t need an AI to make a copy anyway.
If you trained an AI on two paintings by the same artist, it will never produce either original painting, only blends of the two.
That is why I wrote replicate the art (color composition, image composition, style elements, tone, etc.) not the art pieces. I also never wrote one or two images but enough images …
Cool, we are on the same page
Holy shit, I never thought of the whole witness testimony aspect. For some reason my mind was just like “well, nothing we see in videos or pictures is real anymore, guess everyone is just gonna devolve into believing whatever confirms their bias and argue endlessly about which pictures are fake and which are real.”
Witness testimony and live political interactions are going to become incredibly important for how our society views “the truth” in world events in the near future. I don’t know if I love or hate that.
Thats why we need Blockchain Technology…
Check Blockchain Camera for example: https://github.com/sv1sjp/Blockchain_Camera
Abstract:
Blockchain Camera provides an easy and safe way to capture and guarantee the existence of videos reducing the impact of modified videos as it can preserve the integrity and validity of videos using Blockchain Technology. Blockchain Camera sends to Ethereum Network the hash of each video and the time the video has been recorded in order to be able validate that a video is genuine and hasn't been modified using a Blockchain Camera Validation Tool.How exactly does that prevent someone from uploading a fake video?
The point is to know the time that a video has been uploaded as well as the previous and next videos from it for uses as security cameras, accidents in cars etc to be able to trust a video. (More information can be found on paper).
It won’t, you’ll just be able to verify a source
Not even that. It only allows you to verify that the source is identical to (the potentially wrong information) that was claimed at the time of recording by the person adding that information to the block chain. Blockchain, as usual, adds nothing here.
Blockchain, as usual, adds nothing here.
it can add trust. If there’s a trusted central authority where these hashes can be stored then there’s no need for a blockchain. However, if there isn’t, then a blockchain could be used instead, as long as it’s big and established enough that everybody can agree that the data stored on it cannot be manipulated
but false, nonconsensual nudes are not collectible items that need to have their authenticity proven. they are there to destroy peoples’ lives. even if 99% of people seeing your nude believe you it’s not authnetic, it still affects you heavily
It proves that the video could not have been created at a later time.
yeah but the problem is mere existance of tools allowing pornographic forgery, not verifying whether the material is real or not
How is that better than an immutable database where you guarantee trust simply by gettin your own public hash receipt for the database every time you introduce a new item? Why obfuscate things by riding the “Blockchain” hype bandwagon?
Who manages and guarantees that immutable database?
A nonprofit with multiple synchronized copies of the database and you can get your own copy, synchronize, fork it if you have the space, like a GitLab repository. Remember this is not for secure transactions and to prevent double-spending like a currency. It’s just an additive database. You don’t need to overkill with a blockchain.
Can you name a nonprofit you’d trust to manage court admissable evidence? How do you resolve differences that can pop up when forks don’t agree?
Look, Git exists and image or document registration in an official onine database is Git diffs with less functionality because you can’t remove previous commits: you just append new lines. This is a solved problem. If you’re trying to solve a double-spend problem, then you need more than that, but it’s overkill for your problem.
PS: maybe I’m oversimplifying it, but here’s more discussion on this:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/46192377/why-is-git-not-considered-a-block-chain
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/59509764/is-git-distributed-or-decentralized
Not necessarily, solutions can implemented. For example, footage from private security cameras can be sent to trusted establishment (trusted by the court at least) in real time which can be timestamped and stored (maybe not necessarily even stored there, encryption with timestamp may be enough). If source private camera and the network is secure, footage is also secure.
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I don’t think that will matter very much considering how many real time video modifications we can do already today. Not to mention synthesizing video before the time it is supposed to take place.
Network security is a pretty big ask though - just look at how many unsecured cameras are around now. And once an attacker is in anything generated on that network becomes suspect - how do you know the security camera feed wasn’t intercepted, manipulated, or replaced altogether?
Maybe there will be cameras as well that sign the pictures they take?
To verify if something is real, we might have to rely on
witness testimonyflagrancy.FTFY. Witness has never been that good a means to verify something is real.
Same goes for any deepfake. People are loosing their shit because we won’t know what’s real and what’s not!.
We should have been teaching critical thinking a generation ago. Sagan was pleading for reform in the 90s. We can start teaching the next generation how to navigate the Information Age. What we can’t do is make the world childproof.
Yeah, what I see happening is people end up not caring as much because there’s going to be so much plausible AI generated crap that any real stuff will be lost in the noise.
Quelle für das angesprochene Gesetz bitte. Das will ich im Detail lesen.
Fang mit dem relativ neuen Fall hier an, und von da solltest du dann genug Info haben um selber zu suchen was die letzten Jahre passiert ist - das ist exakt das wovor damals gewarnt wurde, aber wer den hysterischen Irren die alles was irgendwie mit “Teenager entdecken Sexualitaet” mit dem Strafrecht erschlagen wollen mit durchdachten Argumenten kommt ist dann ja direkt auch ein Paedophiler.
At least now you can claim it’s AI if your real nudes leak
In the long term that might even lead to society stopping their freak-outs every time someone in some semi-sensitive position is discovered to have nude pictures online.
I hope so. We shouldn’t be ashamed of our bodies or sexuality.
Interesting. Replika AI, ChatGPT etc crack down on me for doing erotic stories and roleplay text dialogues. And this Clothoff App happily draws child pornography of 14 year olds? Shaking my head…
I wonder why they have no address etc on their website and the app isn’t available in any of the proper app-stores.
Obviously police should ask Instagram who blackmails all these girls… Teach them a proper lesson. And then stop this company. Have them fined a few millions for generating and spreading synthetic CP. At least write a letter to their hosting or payment providers.
Fined? Fuck that. CP must result in jail time.
I just hope they even try to catch these people. I’ve tried to look up who’s behind that and it’s a domain that’s with name.com and the server is behind Cloudflare. I’m not Anonymous, so that’s the point at which I’m at my wits’ end. Someone enraged could file a few reports at their abuse contacts… Just sayin…
There’s always the possibility they just catch the boy and just punish him. Letting the even more disgusting people in the background keep doing what they want. Because it would be difficult to get a hold of them. This would be the easiest route for the prosecuters and the least efficient way to deal with this issue as a whole.
Prison at the very least and all the inmates need to know that you engaged in CP.
I thought some kids did this?
I didn’t follow how the story turned out that closely. I think it was a schoolmate who did this. I kinda split up my answer because I think if a kid/minor is the offender, it’s not yet too late to learn how to behave (hopefully). But blackmailing people with nudes is a bit more than the usual bullying and occasional fight between boys we did back in the day. I trust some judge has a look at the individual case and comes up with a proper punishment that factors this in.
What annoys me is the people who offer this service. Advertise for use-cases like this and probably deliberately didn’t put any filters in place not even if it’s pictures of minors. I think they should be charged, fined and ultimately that business case should be banned. I (anonymously) filed a complaint, after writing that comment in September. But they’re still online as of today.
So in my opinion the kid should be taught a lesson and the company should pay for this and be closed for good.
Yes, lets name the tool in the article so everybody can participate in the abuse
I doubt it will do much of anything not to name it.
Considering that AI services typically cost money, especially those advertising adult themes, it kinda does do support the hosters of such services.
Then again, naming and shaming puts pressure on them too. But in the end I doubt it matters. Those who want to use them will find them.
Of course, which isn’t even the problem but rather people using the edited pictures for things like blackmail or whatever. From a technical standpoint it isn’t too dissimilar to the old photoshopping. Face swapping can probably even provide much higher quality results, especially if you have a lot of source material to pull from (you want like matching angles for an accurate looking result). Those AI drawn bodies often have severe anatomical issues that make them very obvious and look VERY different to their advertisement materials.
True. Especially as just googling ‘undress AI free’ yields tons of results which may be less or more legit.
You can literally Google ‘AI nude generation tool’ and get multiple results already. And I do sort of agree with you as I’m not sure how naming this specific tool was necessary or beneficial here. But I don’t think not naming it is going to prevent anyone interested in such a tool from finding one. The software/tool itself is (currently) not illegal.
The shock value of a nude picture will become increasingly humdrum as they become more widespread. Nudes will become so common that no one will batt an eye. In fact, some less endowed, less perfect ladies will no doubt do AI generated pictures or movies of themselves to sell on the internet. Think of it as photoshop X 10.
This isn’t about nude photos, it’s about consent.
I can already get a canvas and brush and draw what I think u/DessertStorms looks like naked and there is nothing you can do about it.
You’re not making the point you think you are, instead you’re just outing yourself as a creep. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Hey, you dropped this \
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The lack of empathy in your response is telling. People do not care for the effect this has on teenage girls. They don’t even try to be compassionate. I think this will just become the next thing girls and women will simply have to accept as part of their life and the sexism and objectification that is targeted at them. But “boys will be boys” right?
The number of people offering practical solutions instead of knee jerk feels… oh the humanity!
Demanding people to just accept that this will happen and they just shouldn’t feel bad about it is not a practical solution.
Why?
Because this is not a solution for the people who are actually victimized. It’s just a solution for the people around those who are victimzed, so that they don’t need to change anything or talk (or listen) about it.
Photoshopped nude pictures of celebrities (and people the photoshopper knew personally) have been around for at least 30 years at this point. This is not a new issue as far as the legal situation is concerned, just the ease of doing it changed a bit.
Have you ever posted a photo on Facebook or Instagram?
If the answer is yes, congratulations! You gave consent.
Please show me where exactly the terms and conditions mention the production and publication of ai generated nudes on those sites.
Also eww, I would not want to be near you in real life.
You give them free reign to do literally whatever they want with your images the moment you post them. They OWN YOUR PHOTOS. The only reason you don’t know about it is because you’re fucking stupid and don’t read their terms of service.
Signed: person who stopped using sites like Facebook and Instagram for this reason.
Edit: Sorry, I realized that reading isn’t your strong suit which is why you demanded I sift through their ToS for you. It’s under the privacy section of Meta’s terms of service. Anything you post that is public immediately grants them the rights to your image.
You ever put an image on Tinder through Facebook, congrats: consent achieved.
I genuinely do not care if you are aware or otherwise. Your comment proves you’re fucking dumb, and deserve your images being used against you for not protecting yourself from predatory social media sites.
You are right, they own my photos, this of course doesn’t grant them the right to do anything with it and it as well doesn’t give someone else the right, but what do you know? You are some lonely little sit harassing others online.
Delete your CSAM collection and then yourself please. Do something for us all, thanks.
Jesus christ, you’re a fucking idiot. Maybe if you went through English class without writing every report through sparknotes you’d have developed the critical thinking required to understand what a TERMS OF SERVICE agreement is.
It’s not too late, you can always go back to school. Although, reading your replies, you’re still too fucking dumb to gain anything from it.
Wow, you have to be one of the most stubborn, stupid, insolent, arrogant, self-absorbed assholes, I ever had the displeasure of exchanging words with.
Eat a dick!
what is sparknotes?
what is CSAM?
Jep, women and girls should just stay away from social media. Also, do not appear on other types of photos. Best stay under a blanket all times, since if some guy sees your face you gave him consent to do whatever he likes with that. You really are a pathetic human being if you don’t see the problem with your mindset.
God you people are fucking dumb.
It is in their TERMS OF SERVICE. IF YOU ACCEPT THEIR TERMS OF SERVICE WITHOUT READING THEM, YOU DO NOT GET TO COMPLAIN. THIS IS NOT NEW, YOU ARE JUST STUPID.
Jesus y’all really eat stones for breakfast everyday around these parts
The article is about children.
The age of the victims is not really relevant. The problem would remain if the article were about adults.
The problem is very different here because they are children.
Very different to what? AI identity theft is what creates the victims, independent of age (or clothing).
People already do this on dating apps with filters
That’s really, really sad, EU, please try to regulate AI.
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Yeah, but you can still regulate the content. Just because you can find CP on the web, doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t make it illegal. It deters people from it, and allows police to prosecute.
I think circulating nude pictures of people is already illegal whether they are AI generated or not.
So what is the next step?deleted by creator
How? By being even more privacy invading? Enforcing backdoors into software? Banning encryption? Monitoring the entire population?
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In SPAIN
I know people don’t read articles but it’s the second word in the headline.
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Banning diffusion models doesn’t work, the tech is already out there and you can’t put it back in the box. Fake nudes used to be done with PhotoShop, the current generative AI models only makes them faster to make.
This can only be stopped on the distribution side, and any new laws should focus on that.
But the silver lining of this whole thing is that nude scandals for celebs aren’t really possible any more if you can just say it’s probably a deepfake.
Other than banning those websites and apps that offer such services, I think we also need to seriously rethink our overall exposure to the internet, and especially rethink how and how much children access it.
We’ll need an AI run police state to stop this technology. I doubt anybody has even the slightest interest in that.
We’ll need an AI run police state to stop this technology.
No? You really just need to ban websites that run ads for these apps.
Yea, with 15 good headshots from different angles I can build a LoRA for anybody, hell Civit is full of celebrity LoRA’s.
Mage.space already had to switch to SFW because people were generating CP. The past couple weeks I’ve been playing with stable diffusion and some of the checkpoints easily generate content that I had to delete because they looked REALLY young and it creeped me out.
The only thing new about this is that the photos are probably more realistic, but still fake. Apps to do this existed before GenAI was a thing
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You know the old joke: if we could do anything with just our eyes, the streets would be full of dead people and pregnant women.
I’ve never heard that joke before, but that’s brilliant.
Lol then people will probably start assuming anyone wearing that technology is a pedophile and/or disgusting creep.
I hope we don’t repeat Google
LensGlassI don’t see how it won’t, people are always going to be sketched out by the notion that the guy across from you could be recording you or taking pictures without your knowledge
Yeah phones can kind of do the same, but it’s a lot harder to hide with a phone
Assuming Apple locks down their device enough, it should make it pretty clear when it’s recording. Whether this notion becomes generally known and accepted, though, is a question in itself.
People already don’t trust the webcams on their own machines to not record them, even when they have hardwired indicator lights, I really doubt that they’ll suddenly trust tech that most people have no experience with to be frank.
I don’t think it’ll be an issue with the Apple Vision Pro specifically though, it’s not like the Google Glass in that it’s super convenient to wear when you go out on a regular basis. No one but an absolute weirdo is going to sit down at the bar wearing his Apple Vision Pro, it’d be like bringing your Quest 2 lol
What do you mean? You got me curious.
Sorry, I meant Google Glass. People were weirded out and the term “Glasshole” was coined. Basically what the comment above described.
As they should
(it will be a man)
I don’t even know whether to upvote or downvote your comment because I can’t figure out if you’re trying to say that only a man would do something like this, or that no woman is technically proficient enough to do this.
Have a downvote for the ambiguity.
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Can this come full circle so I can shirtcock it and later say, “dog, that’s AI” when people post pictures?
Yea, that’s the solution…or niqabs for everyone, lol.
I don’t know about AI nudes. But with normal AI generated pics, they have a specific style and genericness to them. Don’t get me wrong, many AI generated pictures are hard to distinguish from real photographs. But on the other hand, many real photographs are easy to distinguish from AI generated pics. So you’d probably need to take the nudes in a specific way to have plausible deniability.
Maybe something will change as soon as people start creating and distributing fake AI nudes of that country’s leaders.
Honestly surprised this didn’t happen first.
Be a great way to discredit politicians in homophobic states, by showing a politician taking it up the arse.
Its already happened, and there is not enough In the world bleach to unsee it.
Black Mirror’s The National Anthem might have gone differently these days.
This seems like a pretty significant overreaction. Like yes, it’s gross and it feels personal, but it’s not like any of the subjects were willing participants…their reputation is not being damaged. Would they lose their shit about a kid gluing a cut out of their crush’s face over the face of a pornstar in a magazine? Is this really any different from that?
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Obviously this is creepy, but the technology is out there, one of those can’t put the genie back in the bottle techs. You can and should look at the people generating the images as creeps, but ultimately we as a society need to learn to not put as much veracity or identity in images now.
With that said where the fuck did this model get its training data for 14 year olds. That sounds like a more serious issue.
With that said where the fuck did this model get its training data for 14 year olds.
Nowhere, at least for any model you could get your hands at in public places like civitai. Or, well, it’s not like they can tell whether someone trained on those kinds of pictures but they’re rightly nuking any underage/loli example images, as well as anyone who posts them, from orbit.
Generally speaking models can be very good at mixing concepts they have an understanding of, say a giraffe with zebra stripes, but that doesn’t mean that you can just combine anything – if you try to generate a nude human with zebra fur you’re bound to get body paint, random skimpy zebra-striped clothing, or at most a fursuit, not convincing fur, unless you use a model trained by furries but at that point you’ll have trouble generating faces without muzzles: The AI just doesn’t know how actual zebrakin look like so it’s either copping out or making stuff up.
I’ve never tried nor am I remotely attracted to that age range but I wouldn’t be surprised if a paedophile would complain “these aren’t kids they’re scaled-down adults”. Things like the difference between budding and small breasts, ask a biologist I haven’t seen 14yold breasts in over two decades.
On another note though I’d much rather have paedophiles jack off to generated images than doing anything involving actual children, including creeping around. Lesser of two evils and all that. Therapy, of course, is preferable to both.
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I’ll leave the judgement of that to psychologists. What should not be controversial, however, is the amount of direct harm avoided if one can be replaced by the other.
Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the less shitty.
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that you suggested
I did not suggest anything. I expressed a preference: That it’s better if a paedophile jacks off to generated pictures than if they molest actual children. What do you disagree with, there? That both situations are equally bad, that an equal amount of harm is occurring? Have you ever asked a victim about that.
There are laws in place about sexualizing minors.
Just for the record: Not by a far stretch all countries outlaw drawings, fiction, etc., but only as the German term goes “documents of child abuse”.
You can’t just hand wave my response away
You mean your accusation and I tend to do that for civility’s sake as doing otherwise tends to result in shouting matches. It is AFAIK currently unknown whether, by and large, paedophiles having access to simulated material for their sexual gratification increases or decreases the incidence of child abuse happening. I have no idea either, you don’t know better either, and it may very well differ on a case-by-case basis. All I’m saying is that I’d rather have them fapping than molesting children is that so hard to understand and why in the everloving fuck would you disagree with that: If anything it’s you who’s trivialising child abuse (and, look, see, I stopped to ignore your incitement and we’re in an accusatory shouting match)
How do you know that these people replace harassment with these pictures? And not just do both, or even increase their fetishes?
What about the girls who’s pictures were used as material for these generated images?
How do you know that these people replace harassment with these pictures? And not just do both, or even increase their fetishes?
AFAIK psychologists simply don’t know, and it might be a case by case thing.
What about the girls who’s pictures were used as material for these generated images?
As I explained, it might not be necessary to have any underage material in the training data.
Generally speaking I didn’t come here to have a deep discussion about a very difficult moral and legal issue, I’ll leave that up to the specialists. I wanted to say something about AI and somehow all answers I get are about the last tacked-on paragraph making a quick statement about me preferring keeping paedophiles away from kids.
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Not that they aren’t both bad but I hate this false equivalence between images that were created by literally raping a child and filming that rape and images that were created purely from the imagination of the creator. This is what is actually enabling child abuse by treating both identically in legal terms because to the person attracted to children you suddenly made the cost identical while they probably prefer the real thing to a fake thing.
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They’re both terrible and illegal to different degrees.
But most people and most legal jurisdictions do not make that distinction and that is my point. I am not saying either should be legal but at the very least one should carry a lot lower punishments, in a similar way that possession of stolen goods and possession of murder weapons are both punished but not with the same severity.
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Right, the technology is out there so we as a society need to establish norms, customs, and yes, laws governing its use.
I’m pretty firmly on the side of there being legal consequences for taking pictures of real minors, running them through a service to create nude replicas, and then circulating those pictures. That is wrong on so many levels and could constitute any number of crimes without the AI component including, such as harassment. I mean, intentionally using someone’s likeness to circulate embarrassing materials already had legal consequences. This is just a whole other level of ick on top.
Personally I don’t see a difference between using an AI service or plain old Photoshop to create a fake nude picture of someone. Both should be punished in the same way and if law makers haven’t caught up with the Photoshop version after 30 years they likely won’t handle the AI version in this century either.
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I don’t see the difference of photoshopping a convincing nude of the same minor vs. using AI to generate a nude of the same minor.
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I would agree, though I wonder about the service mentioned that is dedicated to the process. My comment was in response to someone who seemed to think circulating fake nudes wasn’t a problem, regardless of how they were generated.
It’s not enough to just look at the people who did this as creeps.
It’s not different, it’s all fake, cobbled together from images of other people’s bodies and will show zero authentic details about the subject except what are already known and visible about them.
What the fuck are you talking about? Spreading nude photos of any provenance around at work is definitely an HR violation, and the use of my partner’s face in them (just like pasting their face on a pornstar’s photo) is sexual harassment. Nothing about it being AI generated changes any of that equation except to make it a little more uncanny.
It’s a fad, and how would we deal with you sending your hand drawn pictures around the neighborhood….form a group of concerned moms and raid all of the local art shops to stop the sale of drawing materials?
The genie is out of the bottle. We can shower these types of content with huge attention which will ultimately extend and expand the fad, we can ignore them because they are pointless, or we can try a futile war on AI porn that, like the war on drugs, will ruin a lot of ultimately benign peoples lives in order to crack down on a few legitimately criminal creeps who probably can already be prosecuted according to existing laws.
Why is it not sexual harassment if the target are teenage girls?
In my opinion there should be really impactful punishment for the people who did this. Otherwise there will be more and more people like you who seem to think this is a funny little school prank.
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These are school girls in their teenage years.To them and their parents, this must be a nightmare.
Why? They didn’t take or share any nudes, and nobody believes they did.
This is only a nightmare if an ignorant adult tells them that it is.
Why? They didn’t take or share any nudes, and nobody believes they did.
This is only a nightmare if an ignorant adult tells them that it is.
So you don’t have children, right?
Did your picture got taken and shared as a teenager? Did you get heavily sexualised and harassed? Believe me, it feels like a nightmare even if no one is telling you that it should feel like a nightmare.
Take your “sexual harassment is only bad to teenage girls if you tell them” shit elsewhere.
I don’t want to band wagon against you, but I do think it’s important that people who agree with your viewpoint have a chance to understand that the situation is a violation of privacy.
The kids’ reputation is, likely, damaged. You have an underage girl who is already dealing with the confusion and hierarchy of high school. Then (A) someone generates semi-accurate photos of what their naked body looks like and (B) distributes it to others.
Issue (A) is bad because it’s essentially CSAM and also because it’s attempting to access a view of someone that the subject likely hasn’t permitted the generator to have access to. This is a privacy violation and the ethics around it are questionable at best.
Issue (B) is that the generator didn’t stop at the violations of issue (A), but has now shared that material with other people who know the subject without the subject’s consent, and likely without her knowledge of the recipients. This means that the subject now has to perpetually wonder if every person they interact with (friends, teachers, other parents, her own parents) have seen lewd pictures of her. Hopefully you can see how this could disturb a young woman.
Now apply a different situation to it. Suppose you took a test at school or at work that shows you as dumb (like, laughably dumb; enough to make you feel subconscious). Even if you don’t think it’s a fair test, this test exists. Now, assume that someone shared this test with your friends, co-workers, and even your parents without you knowing exactly who received it. And instead of everyone saying “it’s just a dumb test — it doesn’t mean anything”, they decide it means something about you. Every hour or so, you walk by someone or interact with someone who chuckles or cracks a joke at your expense. You’re not allowed by your community to move on from this test.
Before your test was released, you could blend in. Now, you’re the person everyone is looking at and judging. Think of that added anxiety on top of everything else you have to deal with.
I appreciate your intentions, but your examples are just not up to the standard needed to treat AI generated nudes any differently than a nude magazine collage with kids’ crushes faces in it.
As uncanny as the nudes might be, they are NOT accurate. People know this and they are going to learn one way or another to adjust their definition of “real”. No character details like moles or their actual skin tone, or anything like this will be accurately portrayed. They have no reason to think “someone has seen their naked body”. Yeah, if someone tells them to worry about it, they will, as any young person will, but why? The bigger the deal we make of it, the worse it is, and the litmus test is, is it bad if we decide to ignore it and teach kids that ai generated nudes have nothing to do with them and that they can safely ignore them, then they do basically zero harm.
How is your test example related to this at all? In the one case, my face and clothed picture is acquired likely with my implied permission from social media and modifications that i did not authorize are added to it and it is then distributed, making me look naked and having no bearing on my person or character (since the ai doesn’t actually know what i look like naked) so no conclusion anyone would draw from it constitutes a disclosure of information about me. The test example constitutes a clear disclosure with provenance to establish the validity of the information, quire a different scenario. It is true that AI chat bots can be jail-broken to release my previous questions which might reveal things about my character that i do not wish to disclose, but that is a different issue and unrelated to these nude generators.
I’m not saying handing these nudes to a kid or blackmailing them is not criminal or harassment, just that the technology and medium should have almost no bearing on how we treat this.
Buddy, I want to let you know that I wrote a big rebuttal and then accidentally canceled my comment and it got erased. In my response I disagreed with your original argument and your rebuttal as well, but that I respected the time it took to share your thoughts. I’m so sad my dumb comment got deleted, lol
Know that I appreciate your lengthy response back to me.
Be well.
Issue (A) is bad because it’s essentially CSAM and also because it’s attempting to access a view of someone that the subject likely hasn’t permitted the generator to have access to. This is a privacy violation and the ethics around it are questionable at best.
That part is not a privacy violation, the same way someone drawing in a canvas their own impression of what a bank vault looks like on the inside does not constitute a trespassing / violation of privacy of the bank. Unless the AI in question used actual nudes of them as a basis, but then we wouldn’t need the extra AI step for this to be a problem, right? Otherwise, I’m rather sure that the actual privacy violation starts at (B).
Ofc, none of that makes it less of a problem, but it does feel to me like it subverts a potential angle for fighting against this.
I appreciate your input and am thankful for your perspective, mate.
Bruh, all of this sounds creepy as shit.
I tried the AI with a pic of me. It was incredibly inaccurate and gave me something between a dick and a vagina. Nothing truly damaging.
I’m morbidly curious
Then upload a picture of yourself. I think every account is allowed one free try
Sooo, intersex?
I also tried with a pic of me and it gave me a lot of muscles, a big bush and a weird dick, so it missed 2 out of 3
Governments need to strike hard against all kinds of platforms like this, even if they can be used for legitimate reasons.
AI is way too dangerous a tool to allow free innovation and market on, it’s the number one technology right now that must be heavily regulated.
What, exactly would they regulate? The training data? The output? What kinds of user inputs are accepted?
All of this is hackable.
It’s child porn in this case. Regulate it as such. Putting a real child’s head onto an AI generated body is sexualizing a child.
That’s not what he’s saying, he’s asking what grounds and mechanism they have for regulating the platform itself.
Making unauthorized nude images of other people, probably. The service did advertise, “undress anyone”.
The Philosophical question becomes, if it’s AI generated is it really a photo of them?
Let’s take it to an extreme. If you cut the face off somebody’s polaroid and then paste it into a nudie magazine over the face of an actress. Is that amalgam a nude photo of the Polaroid picture person?
It’s a debate that could go either way, and I’m sure we will have an exciting legal land scape with countries with different rules.
I suppose you could make a Ship of Theseus like argument there too. At what point does it matter where the parts of the picture came from. Most would probably be okay with their hairstyle being added to someone else’s picture, what about their eyes, their mouth,… Where exactly is the line?
Exactly. A bunch of litigators are going to get very rich debating this.
The Philosophical question becomes, if it’s AI generated is it really a photo of them?
That does not matter, as people can’t make a difference, even if they wanted.
It is a photo about them if you can recognize them, especially their face, on it.What if there’s somebody who looks very similar to somebody else? Are they prevented from using their likeness in film and media?
Could an identical twin sister be forbidden from going into porn, to prevent her from besmirching the good image of her other twin sister who’s a teacher?
They are not looking very similar intentionally. But editing images is done pretty much intentionally.
I think it comes down to the identity of the person whose head is on the body. For instance, if the eyes had a black bar covering them or if the face was blurred out, would it be as much an invasion of privacy?
However, if the face was censored, the photo wouldn’t have the same appeal to the person who generated it. That’s the issue here.
A cutout of a person’s head on a porn star’s picture still has a sense of falsehood to it. An AI generated image that’s likely similar to the subject’s body type removes a lot of the falsehood, and thus makes the image have more power. Without the subject’s consent, this power is harmful.
You’re right about the legal battles, though. I just feel bad for the people who will have their dignity compromised in the mean time. Everyone should be entitled to dignity.
Objectively it’s absolutely not AIs don’t have X-ray eyes. Best they could do is infer rough body shape from a clothed example but anything beyond that is pure guesswork. The average 14yold is bound to be much better at undressing people with their eyes than an AI could ever be.
Subjectively, though, of course yes it is. You’re not imagining the cutie two desks over nude because it isn’t them.
In this sort of situations the conclusion would be easy or in cases where we have the input photo. But absolutely it could get iffy
How about we teach people some baseline of respect towards other people? Punishing behaviour like that can help showing that it’s not okay to treat other people like pieces of meat.
I’m pretty sure nude pictures of minors is already illegal.
I’m not sure if AI made ones count yet
You go ahead and make AI generated kiddie porn and we’ll find out.
I’m fairly sure there are legal cases about it, so no need to encourage anyone to make kiddie porn…
Then wtf are you confused about? Lol
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Good point. What I mean by that is you can modify the prompt or the output to an extent where it can be argued “Nah, that’s not her. It was just inspired by her for this result”
Is it illegal to draw from imagination someone else nude?
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Surely there will be loop holes, but there must be laws there in the first place. Better something than nothing
Good luck regulating cross borders.
I’d also prioritise regulating fossil fuel technology as the number one priority.
Fossil fuels is absolutely number one, I was talking about digital technology specifically
Why? It’s just proof that the old “don’t belive anything you read on the Internet” saying was always relevant.
Maybe it would feel different to you if it was your daughter’s fake nudes making their rounds on her classmate’s social media
Fake nudes have been around since the days of Kazaa and eDonkey. It’s nothing new. The only thing hard regulation is going to do is to keep the public unaware of how AI can be used (and make them unable to defend themselves from those who use it for unsavoury purposes).
These outrages that keep getting spammed all over the Internet calling for regulation smell horribly of corporate astroturfing.
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“You’re a white American male in college and it shows”
Very far off. Not even the right continent.
“How on earth is this corporate astroturfing? Corporations fucking love AI. They don’t want any restrictions on them.”
Corporations have been calling for regulation on AI, so that it’s only allowed as a service from them instead of being something anyone can do at home on their own hardware.
It’s the same with a lot of the artist “outrage” over AI replacing them.
I know artists, they actually are worried and for good reason, and they are the last to have corprorate interests
Why are men?
Because men
