I think you pretty fundamentally misunderstand what people mean when they say “enlightened centrist”. Because it’s not actually demonising having an open mind. It’s referring to people who adopt a smarter-than-thou attitude while insisting that listening to bigotry is of vital importance.
If the message is clearly coming from a mean spirited place you shouldn’t need to listen to that person.
Except centrists say we should. All the time. As long as bigotry is dressed up in “civil” language, centrists will say that it’s fair game.
I am constantly told, by centrists, that my right to exist in society is open for debate. Whether or not I can get my healthcare, or if it is criminalised, is an open question. And that’s not rare, I see it almost every day, from people who think of themselves as “center”.
From what I’ve seen, bigotry often gets defined as literally any deviation from the exact list of opinions one must hold to be considered left wing.
No. That’s just right-wing rubbish.
There are a tiny handful of opinions deemed bigoted. It’s just that the right-wing is utterly obsessed with them, and wants to talk about them all the time.
People can hold conservative and right-wing opinions about taxation or spending or foreign policy without being called bigoted. Progressives would probably disagree vehemently with them. But it’s not bigotry.
The people attacking “centrism” seem to think half the population is irredeemably evil and has nothing good to contribute to a conversation.
That is you strawmanning people, if that is what you think.
“Centrists” to me are people from a wide range of views who decide not to be at each other’s throats and actually talk things out.
Talk what out? Be specific. It matters.
Again, many topics are perfectly open for debate.
People’s inclusion in society as equals, is not.
To me the people who are willing to be civil (with those who are also civil and genuine about their views) are the ones making real progress instead of essentially hoping for civil wars to break out
Civil tone does not a civil idea make, is all I’d add to that.
You’re free to choose tribalism more often if you prefer,
Oh bite me. I’m not “choosing tribalism”. Direct your ire to the people slinging abuse at minorities, not at minorities who are tired of endlessly debating their own existence.
It can’t be easy to talk to people who on the surface appear to disagree with your very existence.
Not just on the surface. Don’t downplay.
But the people actually talking it through are not the bad guys, they’re the ones getting shit done, changing minds instead of escalating and further entrenching people in their existing views.
Historically speaking, you are dead wrong. Societies have fallen to fascism precisely because of moderates and “centrists” making room for fascism to flourish, and impeding efforts to shut it down before it entrenches itself, because they were convinced that “civil conversation” was the only way forward.
You might feel superior to those of us actually doing the work, but you are standing in the way of actually getting things done. And you will be treated accordingly.
Well the most important thing is that you feel morally superior to other people, and create spaces that minoritised people don’t feel welcome in because allowing bigots to voice their nonsense is more important than actually listening to those minoritised people.
You talk of being reasonable but posit the most unreasonable position and claim it’s as proof that others are unreasonable.
You’re completely full of shit.
Meanwhile, please show me a truly centrist path to the battle for rights. I would love to hear what a person like you sees as a reasonable outcome that somehow pleases those who deserve something unalienable and those who wish to obliterate those who fight for something unalienable.
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I think you pretty fundamentally misunderstand what people mean when they say “enlightened centrist”. Because it’s not actually demonising having an open mind. It’s referring to people who adopt a smarter-than-thou attitude while insisting that listening to bigotry is of vital importance.
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Except centrists say we should. All the time. As long as bigotry is dressed up in “civil” language, centrists will say that it’s fair game.
I am constantly told, by centrists, that my right to exist in society is open for debate. Whether or not I can get my healthcare, or if it is criminalised, is an open question. And that’s not rare, I see it almost every day, from people who think of themselves as “center”.
No. That’s just right-wing rubbish.
There are a tiny handful of opinions deemed bigoted. It’s just that the right-wing is utterly obsessed with them, and wants to talk about them all the time.
People can hold conservative and right-wing opinions about taxation or spending or foreign policy without being called bigoted. Progressives would probably disagree vehemently with them. But it’s not bigotry.
That is you strawmanning people, if that is what you think.
Talk what out? Be specific. It matters.
Again, many topics are perfectly open for debate.
People’s inclusion in society as equals, is not.
Civil tone does not a civil idea make, is all I’d add to that.
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Oh bite me. I’m not “choosing tribalism”. Direct your ire to the people slinging abuse at minorities, not at minorities who are tired of endlessly debating their own existence.
Not just on the surface. Don’t downplay.
Historically speaking, you are dead wrong. Societies have fallen to fascism precisely because of moderates and “centrists” making room for fascism to flourish, and impeding efforts to shut it down before it entrenches itself, because they were convinced that “civil conversation” was the only way forward.
You might feel superior to those of us actually doing the work, but you are standing in the way of actually getting things done. And you will be treated accordingly.
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Well the most important thing is that you feel morally superior to other people, and create spaces that minoritised people don’t feel welcome in because allowing bigots to voice their nonsense is more important than actually listening to those minoritised people.
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That you think of this as the example of compromise really explains where you mind is.
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Yes, did you?
You talk of being reasonable but posit the most unreasonable position and claim it’s as proof that others are unreasonable.
You’re completely full of shit.
Meanwhile, please show me a truly centrist path to the battle for rights. I would love to hear what a person like you sees as a reasonable outcome that somehow pleases those who deserve something unalienable and those who wish to obliterate those who fight for something unalienable.
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Right so my take on you is made up but your strawman isn’t?
Meanwhile, I’m waiting on your reasonable apprpach.