If Nazism grew in a Christian monoculture, where did all the Jews come from?
For the sake of debate, please refrain from personal attacks. We don’t have to agree, but can we do so in a civil manner?
I get your point: Assuming Nazi Germany was nothing but Christian, the picture would be correct.
But that was not the case. Some were even atheists! And some Christians were some of the fiercest resistance fighters.
I also think it’s dishonest to reduce the picture to just that. It’s also an example of connecting your political enemy to some monstrosity in an undifferentiated way, just like the Nazis did.
Still, this meme not only lowers you to the level of these Christians, but also to the level of Nazi propaganda.
If you want civil discussion this is not how you get it.
The majority of Germans were Christian, the official state religion was Christianity and it was recently revealed the Vatican was aware of the Holocaust well before the Allies were.
Nazis were Christians. Christians supported Nazis from the highest levels of the Church.
Any attempt to say otherwise is to whitewash the Catholic Church’s involvement and is unacceptable.
The majority of Germans were Christian, the official state religion was Christianity and it was recently revealed the Vatican was aware of the Holocaust well before the Allies were.
Nazis were Christians. Christians supported Nazis from the highest levels of the Church.
Yes, that’s all correct, broadly and roughly speaking. If you insert ‘all’ or ‘every’ like the picture in question, it becomes false, strictly speaking.
Any attempt to say otherwise is to whitewash the Catholic Church’s involvement and is unacceptable.
Agreed. I think our statements don’t contradict each other.
Still, this meme not only lowers you to the level of these Christians [who throw slur memes at atheists], but also to the level of Nazi propaganda.
If you want civil discussion this is not how you get it.
Maybe I did a poor job at delivering my point. Maybe someone else can do better. I think, at least, I contributed some new viewpoint to the discussion, and if only as something to which others can respond with “no, because …”. None of that justifies personal attacks.
Maybe others are happy with /c/atheism being an uncritical echo chamber for memes. I’d find that pretty sad and boring.
I regard it as my civil duty as a German anti-fascist to point out Nazi aesthetics and methods when I see them. There are so many ways to rightfully criticize Christianity, and even the interconnections between Christianity and Nazism. But doing so in the style of Goebbels is not the way. Maybe I should have clarified the similarities I see:
The colors resemble the Flag of the German Empire and were the favorite colors in Nazi propaganda
They too used generalizations over nuance
They too cared more about the narrative to deliver, even if it meant to exaggerate or distort historic facts
Connecting the disfavoured ‘others’ with emotionally laden pictures, equating them with monsters, stylizing them as ultimate enemies
This is actually not true. Nazism, like pretty much all authoritarian systems, wanted to push aside Christianity and organized religion, because they wanted to be the sole focus of society. They didn’t work in concert like you are claiming.
You would/could be anything and your message would still be on the level of nazi propaganda.
The quality of an argument/message is independet from whom it comes from.
If it would depend on whom a message comes from, it would lead to “Argumentum ad hominem”…
PS Initial topic: causation vs correlation! All Nazis ate bread. -> “Eating bread makes you a nazi.”
PS2: trying to find a correlation between religion (christianity) and absolute evil(being nazi) is exactly what Nazis did. They said that there is a correlation between being jewish and the cause of all bad things happening.
Pointing out the religious environment that Nazism grew in does not lower one to the level of Nazis you delusional sack of fuck.
If Nazism grew in a Christian monoculture, where did all the Jews come from?
For the sake of debate, please refrain from personal attacks. We don’t have to agree, but can we do so in a civil manner?
I get your point: Assuming Nazi Germany was nothing but Christian, the picture would be correct.
But that was not the case. Some were even atheists! And some Christians were some of the fiercest resistance fighters.
I also think it’s dishonest to reduce the picture to just that. It’s also an example of connecting your political enemy to some monstrosity in an undifferentiated way, just like the Nazis did.
If you want civil discussion this is not how you get it.
The majority of Germans were Christian, the official state religion was Christianity and it was recently revealed the Vatican was aware of the Holocaust well before the Allies were.
Nazis were Christians. Christians supported Nazis from the highest levels of the Church.
Any attempt to say otherwise is to whitewash the Catholic Church’s involvement and is unacceptable.
Yes, that’s all correct, broadly and roughly speaking. If you insert ‘all’ or ‘every’ like the picture in question, it becomes false, strictly speaking.
Agreed. I think our statements don’t contradict each other.
Maybe I did a poor job at delivering my point. Maybe someone else can do better. I think, at least, I contributed some new viewpoint to the discussion, and if only as something to which others can respond with “no, because …”. None of that justifies personal attacks.
Maybe others are happy with /c/atheism being an uncritical echo chamber for memes. I’d find that pretty sad and boring.
I regard it as my civil duty as a German anti-fascist to point out Nazi aesthetics and methods when I see them. There are so many ways to rightfully criticize Christianity, and even the interconnections between Christianity and Nazism. But doing so in the style of Goebbels is not the way. Maybe I should have clarified the similarities I see:
This is actually not true. Nazism, like pretty much all authoritarian systems, wanted to push aside Christianity and organized religion, because they wanted to be the sole focus of society. They didn’t work in concert like you are claiming.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity
You should first learn to read. He said nazi PROPAGANDA, fcking moron.
Who puts out Nazi propaganda? Who would you be equivalent to if your message is on the level of Nazi propaganda?
You would/could be anything and your message would still be on the level of nazi propaganda.
The quality of an argument/message is independet from whom it comes from.
If it would depend on whom a message comes from, it would lead to “Argumentum ad hominem”…
PS Initial topic: causation vs correlation! All Nazis ate bread. -> “Eating bread makes you a nazi.”
PS2: trying to find a correlation between religion (christianity) and absolute evil(being nazi) is exactly what Nazis did. They said that there is a correlation between being jewish and the cause of all bad things happening.