It wasn’t all that bad, most of the really horrible crimes were committed by the CIA. Army Grunts were there to clean up afterwards. I think a lot of the infrastructure developments and border security policies in the Middle East actually truly helped alleviate the radical wahhabi islamic militant groups that were created when the USA toppled democracy in the region during and after WWII.
Not to shill for the US military, but, uh… source on NJ paying anything comparable?
I don’t know if you’ve looked for a job in the US lately, but the prospects for a 19 year old with just a diploma, and not pursuing a college degree or a skilled trade, are pretty dismal.
You’re looking at something ~$30k for a Starbucks barista or a McDonald’s burger flipper, or maybe ~$36k if there’s an automotive plant nearby. Both are hourly, so gotta hope they actually give you decent hours if you go the fast food route. If you go the autoworker route, hope you enjoy 8+ hours of repetitive, non-stop, physical labor. You’re then spending at least a third of your ~$20k - $25k take home on rent and another third on food.
Compare that to $36k, with no significant costs for room and board. You’re paying federal taxes but the deductions for active military are huge and most states waive income tax for soldiers. Your take home is better, your expenses are less, your fit, healthy, and your healthcare is covered for life, and if you leave after your contract is up you get to enjoy the government paying for college.
Like 99% percent of military personnel never see combat, and especially now that we’re done with Afghanistan and Iraq it’s even safer.
The military’s problem is that anyone smart enough to do that math and weigh those choices is probably smart enough to do something else, but for millions of people it’s a better choice than slaving away at McDick’s as cost of living and college tuition continues to rise.
The system is far from perfect. It’s not as good as say, the NHS or Canada’s health system. And while it’s “free” healthcare that is better than the non-existent free healthcare that doesn’t exist for other Americans, it’s underfunded and understaffed, especially following 20 years of war which obviously saw a huge strain put on the VA system.
It’s only healthcare. Veterans with untreated psychiatric problems also often struggle with homelessness and stable employment. If they’re transient, it can be difficult to insure they, say, make a key appointment to get a diagnosis or prescription.
Many people who are largely on their own with psychological issues, including but not limited to veterans, simply do not stick with a treatment regimen. There aren’t a lot of mechanisms in place to force someone to take a prescribed drug, even if it helps, and don’t like how it makes them feel. This obviously can feed back into #2.
Selection bias. It seems like “so many” because our military is huge. 1.9 million US troops were deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan over the past 20 years. Of those let’s say 5% saw actual combat (hard to say how many, but all estimates I have seen say certainly not more than 10%), which is 95,000. If most of those end up with PTSD, that’s more soldiers than most of the coalition forces sent over, combined. If around half do (and around 35,000 US troops were injured, so this tracks), that’s more than France’s entire contribution to the invasion and occupation. The vast majority of the remaining 1.8 million who went over and weren’t in combat are typically fine. Sure, some will also have psychological issues, but these are people who might have anyway even if they weren’t in the military.
It’s probably the signing bonus, base pay for an E-1 is much lower. Going off 2023 rates the first year base pay comes out to $22,432.80 plus BAH/S, specialty pay etc. might bring it up to $30k ish. Even if they are coming in as an E-4 base pay will be $30,042.
There are absolutely jobs that have a 35k sign on bonus. Or did at least. The way the OP is worded would be strange for it to be base pay. Sounds like a bonus to me. But you can think what you want.
As a vet, believe me you welcome the fucking bullets. I would rather be deployed than be in garrison. You have no idea how insufferable the bureaucratic bullshit in the military is. Im not downplaying the war part, but your mileage will vary with exposure to life threatening situations depending on where you get placed. You may land in an assignment that places you directly in harms way on a constant basis, you might never end up in a combat situation at all, or anything in-between. It’s all luck of the draw, you don’t pick your duty station. However the one constant thing you will find wherever you go is the most asinine frustrating circuitous bullshit that you have to deal with on a daily basis. The hoops you need to jump through for the most basic shit. The dumb old fucks that outrank you getting anal retentive about regulations that they’ve clearly never read. The ridiculous amount of busy work. So much bullshit. There were plenty of times when I was in that I WISHED someone would fucking shoot me.
… You think the US military is weak because it relies on technology, and how it fared in a simulated war against itself?
Are you forgetting stuff like how we’ve actually seen it go to war? Or how we’ve all become so used to how it fights that when Russia invaded Ukraine, we were all startled that it didn’t unfold like the typical US invasions do?
The US military has 1.4M active-duty personnel. With a turnover rate around 20% per 36 months, that’s about 2.9M cumulative service members from 2001-2021. During that same time period, US forces suffered about 7000 casualties. That’s a fatality rate of 0.24%, which is not that much higher than that of a civilian living in Detroit in the 90s.
That’s $35K, plus free room and board. If you have no loved ones, it’s actually a pretty decent option.
You also need a lack of conscience to invade other countries and kill their citizens and bomb their hospitals though
It wasn’t all that bad, most of the really horrible crimes were committed by the CIA. Army Grunts were there to clean up afterwards. I think a lot of the infrastructure developments and border security policies in the Middle East actually truly helped alleviate the radical wahhabi islamic militant groups that were created when the USA toppled democracy in the region during and after WWII.
deleted by creator
But would you have to live in New Jersey?
Dealbreaker
Not to shill for the US military, but, uh… source on NJ paying anything comparable?
I don’t know if you’ve looked for a job in the US lately, but the prospects for a 19 year old with just a diploma, and not pursuing a college degree or a skilled trade, are pretty dismal.
You’re looking at something ~$30k for a Starbucks barista or a McDonald’s burger flipper, or maybe ~$36k if there’s an automotive plant nearby. Both are hourly, so gotta hope they actually give you decent hours if you go the fast food route. If you go the autoworker route, hope you enjoy 8+ hours of repetitive, non-stop, physical labor. You’re then spending at least a third of your ~$20k - $25k take home on rent and another third on food.
Compare that to $36k, with no significant costs for room and board. You’re paying federal taxes but the deductions for active military are huge and most states waive income tax for soldiers. Your take home is better, your expenses are less, your fit, healthy, and your healthcare is covered for life, and if you leave after your contract is up you get to enjoy the government paying for college.
Like 99% percent of military personnel never see combat, and especially now that we’re done with Afghanistan and Iraq it’s even safer.
The military’s problem is that anyone smart enough to do that math and weigh those choices is probably smart enough to do something else, but for millions of people it’s a better choice than slaving away at McDick’s as cost of living and college tuition continues to rise.
As a foreigner I wonder why we see so many veterans with untreated psychiatric problems in movies or on the news.
Few reasons:
The system is far from perfect. It’s not as good as say, the NHS or Canada’s health system. And while it’s “free” healthcare that is better than the non-existent free healthcare that doesn’t exist for other Americans, it’s underfunded and understaffed, especially following 20 years of war which obviously saw a huge strain put on the VA system.
It’s only healthcare. Veterans with untreated psychiatric problems also often struggle with homelessness and stable employment. If they’re transient, it can be difficult to insure they, say, make a key appointment to get a diagnosis or prescription.
Many people who are largely on their own with psychological issues, including but not limited to veterans, simply do not stick with a treatment regimen. There aren’t a lot of mechanisms in place to force someone to take a prescribed drug, even if it helps, and don’t like how it makes them feel. This obviously can feed back into #2.
Selection bias. It seems like “so many” because our military is huge. 1.9 million US troops were deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan over the past 20 years. Of those let’s say 5% saw actual combat (hard to say how many, but all estimates I have seen say certainly not more than 10%), which is 95,000. If most of those end up with PTSD, that’s more soldiers than most of the coalition forces sent over, combined. If around half do (and around 35,000 US troops were injured, so this tracks), that’s more than France’s entire contribution to the invasion and occupation. The vast majority of the remaining 1.8 million who went over and weren’t in combat are typically fine. Sure, some will also have psychological issues, but these are people who might have anyway even if they weren’t in the military.
The 35k I’m assuming is a sign on bonus
it’s not, that is your annual salary
It’s probably the signing bonus, base pay for an E-1 is much lower. Going off 2023 rates the first year base pay comes out to $22,432.80 plus BAH/S, specialty pay etc. might bring it up to $30k ish. Even if they are coming in as an E-4 base pay will be $30,042.
Based on what information do you assert this as fact?
it’s barely more than what they offered me when i was in high school and i told them to fuck off? military service does not pay all that well
There are absolutely jobs that have a 35k sign on bonus. Or did at least. The way the OP is worded would be strange for it to be base pay. Sounds like a bonus to me. But you can think what you want.
It’s not really a rate it’s a bonus. It doesn’t say annually, it says 35k… and… a job.
Depends on how much you value your life and independence.
Life? Not at all. Independence? What’s that?
Did You miss the “bullets” part?
As a vet, believe me you welcome the fucking bullets. I would rather be deployed than be in garrison. You have no idea how insufferable the bureaucratic bullshit in the military is. Im not downplaying the war part, but your mileage will vary with exposure to life threatening situations depending on where you get placed. You may land in an assignment that places you directly in harms way on a constant basis, you might never end up in a combat situation at all, or anything in-between. It’s all luck of the draw, you don’t pick your duty station. However the one constant thing you will find wherever you go is the most asinine frustrating circuitous bullshit that you have to deal with on a daily basis. The hoops you need to jump through for the most basic shit. The dumb old fucks that outrank you getting anal retentive about regulations that they’ve clearly never read. The ridiculous amount of busy work. So much bullshit. There were plenty of times when I was in that I WISHED someone would fucking shoot me.
deleted by creator
… You think the US military is weak because it relies on technology, and how it fared in a simulated war against itself?
Are you forgetting stuff like how we’ve actually seen it go to war? Or how we’ve all become so used to how it fights that when Russia invaded Ukraine, we were all startled that it didn’t unfold like the typical US invasions do?
deleted by creator
The US military has 1.4M active-duty personnel. With a turnover rate around 20% per 36 months, that’s about 2.9M cumulative service members from 2001-2021. During that same time period, US forces suffered about 7000 casualties. That’s a fatality rate of 0.24%, which is not that much higher than that of a civilian living in Detroit in the 90s.
Do you think that all army jobs are bullets and action? It’s most likely gonna be administrative stuff. Especially since the Afghan war is over.