One site is kidnapping children and senior citizens, raping them und displaying them in public. The other is demolishing buildings, where a terror organisation is hiding, with a 3h notice.
The other is demolishing buildings, where a terror organisation is hiding, with a 3h notice.
How much CNN did you read to come to this conclusion?
Gaza is literally 5-11km thick the entire way down, with nearly 6,000 people per square kilometer. That’s half the density of New York, in significantly smaller buildings.
Where are these people going to go, when 30% of Gaza is indiscriminately carpet bombed? They’re not even allowed to leave the city. They can’t go to Egypt, they can’t go into the sea, and they can’t go to Israel. The roads are literally blocked, while 100,000+ people try to flee the bombing zones. Oh also, did I mention they no longer have a source of water and food?
Where do you find that they are indiscriminate carped bombed ? It’s mostly the other way around. And fun fact. Most of hamas‘s rockets land in Gaza, as they are shit. This kills civilians or injuries them in Gaza. And they get free healthcare in Israel. But Israel are the bad guys, I guess
I don’t think you know, what carpet bombing is, it’s the act of „bombing“ an area with a large amount of „bombs“. Bombs is a bit confusing, as it were mainly bombs in ww2, when it was first used. But nowadays it refers to explosives in general, indifferent of the method of delivery.
Firing a barrage of the grad rocket system is as much of carped bombing as payload of a b52
Carpet bombing is indiscriminately bombing a specific concentrated area oftentimes with unguided ordinance. That is neigh impossible to achieve with rockets. You could do that with missile systems but Palestine also doesn’t have many of those.
The fact is only Israel is capable of carpet bombing in this conflict.
How is it impossible? They have massive amounts of rockets and mortars. They are more the man capable. But the only reason you don’t learn about this, is that the iron dome is destroying them before impact
Semantics, those rockets didn’t have a guidance system. Civilian deaths become inevitable when the Internet & international scorecard for favoritibility includes the number of martyrs.
No it isn’t semantics. You can’t carpet bomb with rockets just like you cannot with RPGs. It’s like you can’t shovel things with a hammer as it isn’t the tool for that job.
Exactly that. They gave them notice to evacuate. If they were indiscriminate carped bombing they would just do it. But they give them a heads up, so that civilians can leave the area
Better than the alternative of just dropping bombs on them. They are at war. They will retaliate for the raid, and isn’t that nice, that they at least care to minimise civilian casualties?
Everyone with two neurons to rub together knows their “notice” is nothing more than a fig leaf. They know it’s impossible for more of the people there to actually evacuate.
I am not a fan of Hamas, I just have to ask, wtf are the Palestinians supposed to do, and if you aren’t expecting an animal you’ve backed into a corner to attack, wtf is wrong with you?
Those statistics are a preamble of why Hamas did this. I’m not at any point saying that it’s a good thing, I’m saying that violence is literally the only tool Palestine has.
Palestine has been given plenty of chances. They just choose to reject any compromise that doesn’t involve the expulsion of the Jews from the Holy Land.
Maybe if they stopped doing all the things that make them look awful we’d change our minds. But putting over 2 million people into an open air prison and constantly killing them and targeting children and even journalists and medics as they have? How could anyone think they aren’t bad, unless you just don’t care about any lives but Israeli lives.
Gaza isn’t a prison. Until the latest escalation, thousands would cross the boarder daily to go to/from work. Israel gave them humanitarian aid, gave them free healthcare l. Thousands of trucks crossed daily. Israel wants peace, that’s why they are normalising relations to the Saudis l, why they gave Sinai to Egypt. Hamas just wants Israel gone and constantly provokes them to keep the cycle of violence going
They would cross the border only if Israel let them with a work permit. They can’t even leave because they won’t be allowed back in, Palestinians have been stuck in camps for decades in other countries because of this.
If they won’t let you leave without permission, and won’t let you return if you flee them trying to kill you, how is this not a prison?
I saw enough dead child, women and men from the Israeli strikes on schools , hospitals and homes. The horrible hunting screams of fathers and mothers after loosing their children. The empty stare of the sole surviving childs and the ones holding their toddler sibling near the rubbles of their destroyed home, standing not far from the decapitated body of their mother. I saw it happens many and many times before. The expression “it’s a complicated situation” being etched in my mind as I read the responses feeling helpless that the worst crimes can be tossed behind these words. It’s not about accepting Isreal it’s seeing the atrocities they’ve committed countless times before remaining unpunished, disgustingly cheered and applauded many times.
But It’s okey. Humans will destroy themselves sooner or later and these atrocities will forcefully stop.
The difference is, hamas attacks out of hatred towards Israel and Israel attacks to destroy outposts of a terror organisation. Hamas intentional uses hospitals and schools as an outpost to use as a propaganda tool.
I agree civilian casualties are always bad, but you have to accept that Hamas has the goal to maximise them, even on the Gaza side - otherwise they would loose support.
The claim That their freedom fighters are categorized by us and our friends as terrorists will never work on me. The Ukrainian resistance aren’t called terrorists, the french resistance during ww2 weren’t called terrorists. Hamas are like them freedom fighters and the atrocities they commit mirrors that of the aggressor. Among hamas are the sole children left after an Israeli strike, the crazed fathers that lost their families. They want freedom and they fight for it !
Hamas has in their charter, calls for the extermination of the Israelites and rejection of peace settlements.
So yeah they’re terrorists.
France and Ukraine didn’t/don’t have the goal of exterminating all Germans/Russians.
There’s no world where Israel and Palestine peacefully coexist. And you can’t compromise or negotiate with someone whos official stance is “We want your race dead and will reject all peace deals”
The Ukrainian resistance aren’t called terrorists, the french resistance during ww2 weren’t called terrorists.
That’s probably because neither of those groups exhibited the mediaeval barbarity against civilians Hamas has been celebrating.
Hamas are like them freedom fighters and the atrocities they commit mirrors that of the aggressor.
Hamas is explicitly calling for genocide. “The aggressor,” is not. Israel goes to great lengths to minimize civilian deaths, even notifying targets of incoming airstrikes before they hit.
If you think these actions are morally equivalent your moral compass is broken. One side is trying to defend themselves and the other side is trying to eradicate every member of their opponent’s society.
They want freedom and they fight for it !
Perhaps they should negotiate for it rather than continually provoking an enemy they cannot defeat militarily and hiding among civilians. That would prevent many needless civilian casualties.
Hamas affirms that its conflict iswith the Zionist project notwith the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.
The document you linked is from 1988, from when Hamas was first founded and was a fringe insignificant islamist group (which Israel admitted to have propped up and wanted to become the prominent Palestinian group) with minimal popular support. This was revised when Hamas underwent radical change, many members joined it from the former PLO, and Hamas became the sole group resisting apartheid.
The following are considered null and void: the Balfour Declaration, the British Mandate Document, the UN Palestine Partition Resolution, and whatever resolutions and measures that derive from them or are similar to them. The establishment of “Israel” is entirely illegal and contravenes the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and goes against their will and the will of the Ummah; it is also in violation of human rights that are guaranteed by international conventions, foremost among them is the right to self-determination.
…
Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea.
Those quotes seem pretty good to me. I never said that Hamas wants only partial liberation. They want no part of the region to ruled by apartheid, and I support that as well.
I don’t know how well educated you are with the whole history on Israel and Palestine but if you do yourself a favour and do so. You’d understand they more or less wrote „we don’t hate Jews, but we think they are evil and want them noblere near us“. Wich is a common sentiment in the Arab world. Because as a fun fact. The mufti of Palestine was involved in the planning of the holocaust.
we think they are evil and want them noblere near us
This contradicts what figures of Palestinian resistance have repeatedly said. Even now that Israel successfully assassinated them or sabotaged these groups and propped up Hamas, it is still fact that most Palestinians choose to coexist with the Jewish people.
You are projecting Israel’s genocidal behavior onto Palestinians. Everything you say is what is Israel already doing, not Palestine.
Im not doing any of that. All I’m about is giving the pro Palestine folks a reality check, that Hamas is a terrorist group and they are useful idiots to them. I’m concerned as any other of the lives of the innocent in Gaza, but I’m not blinded by pallywood
There’s mountains of evidence of Israel torturing or raping children, pregnant women, and elderly Palestinians. I am happy to show you some of that evidence.
The magnitude of the crimes committed by Israel is not even comparable. Israel has officials and generals who brag about raping Palestinians.
One site is kidnapping children and senior citizens, raping them und displaying them in public. The other is demolishing buildings, where a terror organisation is hiding, with a 3h notice.
No offence but you fell for pollywood
How much CNN did you read to come to this conclusion?
Gaza is literally 5-11km thick the entire way down, with nearly 6,000 people per square kilometer. That’s half the density of New York, in significantly smaller buildings.
Where are these people going to go, when 30% of Gaza is indiscriminately carpet bombed? They’re not even allowed to leave the city. They can’t go to Egypt, they can’t go into the sea, and they can’t go to Israel. The roads are literally blocked, while 100,000+ people try to flee the bombing zones. Oh also, did I mention they no longer have a source of water and food?
Where do you find that they are indiscriminate carped bombed ? It’s mostly the other way around. And fun fact. Most of hamas‘s rockets land in Gaza, as they are shit. This kills civilians or injuries them in Gaza. And they get free healthcare in Israel. But Israel are the bad guys, I guess
Carpet bombing requires an air force. Israel has one and Palestine does not.
No it doesn’t, you can carped bomb with rockets to. Carpet bombing is a strategy
No you can’t carpet bomb with rockets. That’s not how rockets work.
Israel is the only party engaging in this specific war crime in this conflict.
I don’t think you know, what carpet bombing is, it’s the act of „bombing“ an area with a large amount of „bombs“. Bombs is a bit confusing, as it were mainly bombs in ww2, when it was first used. But nowadays it refers to explosives in general, indifferent of the method of delivery.
Firing a barrage of the grad rocket system is as much of carped bombing as payload of a b52
Carpet bombing is indiscriminately bombing a specific concentrated area oftentimes with unguided ordinance. That is neigh impossible to achieve with rockets. You could do that with missile systems but Palestine also doesn’t have many of those.
The fact is only Israel is capable of carpet bombing in this conflict.
How is it impossible? They have massive amounts of rockets and mortars. They are more the man capable. But the only reason you don’t learn about this, is that the iron dome is destroying them before impact
Semantics, those rockets didn’t have a guidance system. Civilian deaths become inevitable when the Internet & international scorecard for favoritibility includes the number of martyrs.
No it isn’t semantics. You can’t carpet bomb with rockets just like you cannot with RPGs. It’s like you can’t shovel things with a hammer as it isn’t the tool for that job.
Israel just told them to evacuate the north HALF of Gaza. What are 7ntalking about??? Admit reality at least.
Exactly that. They gave them notice to evacuate. If they were indiscriminate carped bombing they would just do it. But they give them a heads up, so that civilians can leave the area
Yeah totally reasonable to tell people to leave half their “country” overnight.
Keep clowning, clown.
Better than the alternative of just dropping bombs on them. They are at war. They will retaliate for the raid, and isn’t that nice, that they at least care to minimise civilian casualties?
Everyone with two neurons to rub together knows their “notice” is nothing more than a fig leaf. They know it’s impossible for more of the people there to actually evacuate.
You my friend, are the embodiment of hypocrisy.
There is no good side here. Only an idiot would say otherwise.
Everything you’ve posted in this thread is bullshit.
I Hope you’ll realise that I was telling the truth. And hope that by the time, we still have an Israeli state.
Oh yes, they have fallen for UN provided statistics https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties
6400 Palestinians killed compared to 300 isrealis? Totally just knocking down hamas’s headquarters every time!
Not to argue one side or the other, but that data most definitely does not include this recent attack.
If the numbers being reported are to be believed, then the number of Israeli fatalities has doubled if not tripled overnight.
I am not a fan of Hamas, I just have to ask, wtf are the Palestinians supposed to do, and if you aren’t expecting an animal you’ve backed into a corner to attack, wtf is wrong with you?
Those statistics are a preamble of why Hamas did this. I’m not at any point saying that it’s a good thing, I’m saying that violence is literally the only tool Palestine has.
Palestine has been given plenty of chances. They just choose to reject any compromise that doesn’t involve the expulsion of the Jews from the Holy Land.
You know that the UN isn’t a reliable source on that topic ? The council for humanitarian affairs is literally full of anti semites.
And it’s near impossible to differentiate between civilians and terrorist
The UN actually down plays Palestinian casualties. Other sources estimate them much higher.
and who do you trust then?
I can tell you who I don’t
Amisty International UN Human Right Council Arab Media
Those three have a proven anti semitic background.
Who do you trust then? Who’s reputable?
I bet they trust Times of Israel implicitly.
For those not in the know: Times of Israel is more anti-Palestinian than Ron DeSantis is anti-trans and almost as pro-Netanyahu as Trump is pro-Trump.
that wasnt my question.
But I still answered it. It’s just easier to name everyone I especially don’t trust, than Name the dozens I do.
Disagreement with Israel doesn’t make one an “antisemite.” I think Israel needs to read “the boy who cried wolf.”
No but criticism of Israel because their a Jewish state, does.
Regarding Amnesty International https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2022-000932-ASW_EN.html
The UNHRC is notorious anti Israel and condemning everything they do but also according to them „isis did nothing wrong“
Yeah , the usual pro-israel talk.
I can show you countless evidence of Isreal doing worse several times in the past but people like you don’t care and never will.
Same goes for you, you won’t accept, that israel maybe isn’t as bad as it’s made to be
Maybe if they stopped doing all the things that make them look awful we’d change our minds. But putting over 2 million people into an open air prison and constantly killing them and targeting children and even journalists and medics as they have? How could anyone think they aren’t bad, unless you just don’t care about any lives but Israeli lives.
Because they don’t do, what you just said.
Gaza isn’t a prison. Until the latest escalation, thousands would cross the boarder daily to go to/from work. Israel gave them humanitarian aid, gave them free healthcare l. Thousands of trucks crossed daily. Israel wants peace, that’s why they are normalising relations to the Saudis l, why they gave Sinai to Egypt. Hamas just wants Israel gone and constantly provokes them to keep the cycle of violence going
They would cross the border only if Israel let them with a work permit. They can’t even leave because they won’t be allowed back in, Palestinians have been stuck in camps for decades in other countries because of this.
If they won’t let you leave without permission, and won’t let you return if you flee them trying to kill you, how is this not a prison?
Shocker, you need a permit to cross the border between different jurisdictions
I saw enough dead child, women and men from the Israeli strikes on schools , hospitals and homes. The horrible hunting screams of fathers and mothers after loosing their children. The empty stare of the sole surviving childs and the ones holding their toddler sibling near the rubbles of their destroyed home, standing not far from the decapitated body of their mother. I saw it happens many and many times before. The expression “it’s a complicated situation” being etched in my mind as I read the responses feeling helpless that the worst crimes can be tossed behind these words. It’s not about accepting Isreal it’s seeing the atrocities they’ve committed countless times before remaining unpunished, disgustingly cheered and applauded many times.
But It’s okey. Humans will destroy themselves sooner or later and these atrocities will forcefully stop.
The difference is, hamas attacks out of hatred towards Israel and Israel attacks to destroy outposts of a terror organisation. Hamas intentional uses hospitals and schools as an outpost to use as a propaganda tool.
I agree civilian casualties are always bad, but you have to accept that Hamas has the goal to maximise them, even on the Gaza side - otherwise they would loose support.
The claim That their freedom fighters are categorized by us and our friends as terrorists will never work on me. The Ukrainian resistance aren’t called terrorists, the french resistance during ww2 weren’t called terrorists. Hamas are like them freedom fighters and the atrocities they commit mirrors that of the aggressor. Among hamas are the sole children left after an Israeli strike, the crazed fathers that lost their families. They want freedom and they fight for it !
Hamas has in their charter, calls for the extermination of the Israelites and rejection of peace settlements.
So yeah they’re terrorists.
France and Ukraine didn’t/don’t have the goal of exterminating all Germans/Russians.
There’s no world where Israel and Palestine peacefully coexist. And you can’t compromise or negotiate with someone whos official stance is “We want your race dead and will reject all peace deals”
That’s probably because neither of those groups exhibited the mediaeval barbarity against civilians Hamas has been celebrating.
Hamas is explicitly calling for genocide. “The aggressor,” is not. Israel goes to great lengths to minimize civilian deaths, even notifying targets of incoming airstrikes before they hit.
If you think these actions are morally equivalent your moral compass is broken. One side is trying to defend themselves and the other side is trying to eradicate every member of their opponent’s society.
Perhaps they should negotiate for it rather than continually provoking an enemy they cannot defeat militarily and hiding among civilians. That would prevent many needless civilian casualties.
Your logical fallacy is tu quoque.
And who asked ?
Both “sides” have human lives in the middle getting chewed up.
One of them also holds all the power to stop all of this
Also - A 3 hr notice before bombing civilian infrastructure! How quickly could you move out given 3 hours!?
Yeah, but they won’t. They have their stated goal of wanting to erase all Jews from this earth.
Israel wants to eradicate itself!?
That is not their goal. Stop spreading misinformation and fake news.
I’m not, it’s their goal and they repeated it multiply times since their founding
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
The document found on Hamas’ document disagrees:
https://hamas.ps/en/post/678
EDIT: looks like it’s down, but here’s another copy: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full To quote:
Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.The document you linked is from 1988, from when Hamas was first founded and was a fringe insignificant islamist group (which Israel admitted to have propped up and wanted to become the prominent Palestinian group) with minimal popular support. This was revised when Hamas underwent radical change, many members joined it from the former PLO, and Hamas became the sole group resisting apartheid.
Here’s a quote from the same document:
Seems pretty clear to me.
Those quotes seem pretty good to me. I never said that Hamas wants only partial liberation. They want no part of the region to ruled by apartheid, and I support that as well.
So, basically what Hillary did with Trump? Oh, that’s rich!
I don’t know how well educated you are with the whole history on Israel and Palestine but if you do yourself a favour and do so. You’d understand they more or less wrote „we don’t hate Jews, but we think they are evil and want them noblere near us“. Wich is a common sentiment in the Arab world. Because as a fun fact. The mufti of Palestine was involved in the planning of the holocaust.
Dude’s been dead almost 50 years. I have a feeling there’s a bit more going on here.
This contradicts what figures of Palestinian resistance have repeatedly said. Even now that Israel successfully assassinated them or sabotaged these groups and propped up Hamas, it is still fact that most Palestinians choose to coexist with the Jewish people.
You are projecting Israel’s genocidal behavior onto Palestinians. Everything you say is what is Israel already doing, not Palestine.
I Hope you some day recover from your MAGA brainrot
“They” meaning the civilians being killed?
Of course not. The Hamas Terrorists. You do want to spin everything into „Israel bad“ don’t you ?
No more than you want to spin everything as “Israel good”.
Go fuck yourself Settler
Wow what a valuable contribution to the discussion. Piss off.
his username is jackmarxist lol you expect him to add value to the conversation
😘
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If being anti terrorist is trolling, than yes
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Im not doing any of that. All I’m about is giving the pro Palestine folks a reality check, that Hamas is a terrorist group and they are useful idiots to them. I’m concerned as any other of the lives of the innocent in Gaza, but I’m not blinded by pallywood
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Pallywood is a Palestine + Hollywood. It’s used for deceptive imagery used against Israel by Hamas and Hamas sympathetic groups
There’s mountains of evidence of Israel torturing or raping children, pregnant women, and elderly Palestinians. I am happy to show you some of that evidence.
The magnitude of the crimes committed by Israel is not even comparable. Israel has officials and generals who brag about raping Palestinians.
They’ve admitted they are not doing warnings. They are also clearly bombing far more than known hamas sites, they’re leveling entire neighborhoods.
Stop trying so hard to defend killing civilians.
So you’d be cool with somebody bombing the building you live in as long as they gave you 3 hours notice?
Why wouldn’t I? There is nothing I can do to stop them, so I am happy with the fact, I got to get out in time