Classic Russian whataboutism. It never gets old, does it? You don’t answer a question with a question. You answer with an answer. A child would even know this. How many times will people tell you, most of the US prisoners are detained not for political reasons. The US isn’t also representative of capitalist countries.
What do you make of China having second largest prison population then?
Again, do you approve or disapprove of those detained under communist regimes?
I love how you immediately start screeching whataboutism when faced with your double standards. The fact that you don’t understand that you have to hold different systems to the same standard shows that you’re an intellectually impoverished person.
Any problems seen under communism are also seen under capitalism, and they’re often far worse. That’s the context for comparing the systems, is one system creating more problems than the other. Even a child could comprehend that, but evidently you are unable to.
How many times will people tell you, most of the US prisoners are detained not for political reasons. The US isn’t also representative of capitalist countries.
Who gives a shit for what reason US claims it detains all the people for. The fact that it detains by far the highest percentage out of any country is what actually matters. Also, if you think that systemic racism is a better reason to detain people that says a lot about you as a person.
What do you make of China having second largest prison population then?
I think that further exposes you either an idiot or a liar because China doesn’t have the second largest prison population.
Again, do you approve or disapprove of those detained under communist regimes?
I think that’s a loaded question asked in bad faith. I don’t think every person detained under communism was detained for a good reason, just the same as I don’t think that every person detained under capitalist regimes is detained for a good reason. However, what I do know for a fact is that capitalist regimes detain far more people than communist ones. That’s the real elephant in the room that you keep dancing around because you’re an intellectually dishonest individual.
Edit: reading at OP’s response below, there is deliberate feigning of ignorance on China having second biggest prison population as well as mass arrest of civilians in Soviet Union. It is true that the West has flaws and has imprisoned questionable prisoners, like Assange, but the Soviet Union has made mass arrests on civilians and dissidents. We don’t see any large scale in the West.
The interlocutor also threw so many links down below on the second comment as gish gallop tactic. No one could possibly write that much in less than one hour since I made my comment judging by the timestamp. This is a standard troll tactic. Many links actually either contradict what the interlocutor say because they only read the abstract and misrepresent the full study, or the research being presented has deliberate bias and/or misinformation. They also throw in too much information for individual counter arguments to be made. It is gish galloping. With all being said, it is very suspicious that this is not a coordinated effort. If not, could be someone with too much time on their hands.
Lastly, the interlocutor says Russians approve the Soviet Union (if that is the case, they would have supported the communist coup against Gorbachev in the 1990s to retain the Soviet Union). I will not bother reading the articles just thrown in (which I doubt the person even have properly read them), but knowing the Russian mindset, they just take in whatever leaders there are. Centuries of top-down leadership made them malleable to authority figures. People are not always predisposed to crave democracy. Many times, they want authoritarianism and the promise of stability and many were nostalgic of either fascist and communist regimes because of perceived stability, despite the iron-fisted rule. If communism is still popular in Russia, then the communist party should have been elected to power not Putin’s party. Nonetheless, the fact that more people defect from communist countries than the other way says a lot about communism.
Edit2: The person made more comments At least he/she admit Russian communists are controlled opposition. But doesn’t Marxism advocate for violent revolution. Why hasn’t the Russians then try to overthrow the current government despite the corruption and if communism is popular as he/she claim? Wouldn’t this show that communism isn’t as popular?
It is curious to see someone moving the goalpost constantly. If one wishes to discuss per prison population, the interlocutor conveniently ignore that the Soviet Union has had more prisoner population per capita then because of political prisoners and arbitrary arrests. Then of course the person will not address those who were arrested for simply making jokes under communism. Either he/she hasn’t spoken to someone arrested before, or maybe served as someone as a communist authority figure in the past? If the person is trying to be humanitarian figure, as it portrays to be, he/she would acknowledge this.
There is no double standard. We talked about communism and its derivative not living up to its standards. Communism pruports to fight against the abuses and yet turned around on its original goals. Capitalism, on the other hand, is not a dogma. It just evolved on its own. Practitioners of capitalism are not one monolith out to abuse workers intentionally. There are still capitalist countries that still have better worker rights than the US.
You brought up US prison population after I mentioned arrests under communist regimes. You doing that implies Americans are being arrested for political reason, which is rare if ever. As you have justified in your previous post: “All revolutions are messy, and require purging the regressive elements.” So you admit that people in the Soviet Union were imprisoned for political reasons. Ergo, and correct me if I am wrong, you’re insinuating that imprisonment in the Soviet Union is political, but it is still better than that of the US because of lower incarceration rate, even though many prisoners in the US are not political.
That being said, you just admitted that now you don’t care why the US has higher prison population and handwaving as to why the Soviet Union incarcerated political prisoners. You compared arbitrary arrests in the Soviet Union to systemic racism of American prison system. Are you diminishing then the severity of arbitrary arrests without warrant and due process with the flawed racial bias of another? You do justify the atrocities and flaws of communism by hand waving it and basically stating that: “Any problems seen under communism are also seen under capitalism, and they’re often far worse.” Are you telling me, that any flaws in communism could be ignored since capitalism is doing it anyway? Are you admitting to what communist regimes have done? Isn’t the point of Marxist teaching is to dismantle the system of capitalism and offer alternative to more humane system than capitalism?
As for China’s prison population. You’d be disappointed to find out it is true. Search it on your Yandex search engine.
Again, do you approve or disapprove of those detained under communist regimes?
I think that’s a loaded question asked in bad faith. I don’t think every person detained under communism was detained for a good reason, just the same as I don’t think that every person detained under capitalist regimes is detained for a good reason. However, what I do know for a fact is that capitalist regimes detain far more people than communist ones. That’s the real elephant in the room that you keep dancing around because you’re an intellectually dishonest individual.
Oh, got a player do we? Want to play that game of answering a question with a non-answer? Do you happen to be a politician? I will give you extra points for even trying to gaslight me that I’m acting in bad faith even though you never initially answered my question, and instead gave all sorts of easy to point argument fallacies. A standard politician with egomania could answer with non-answer while gaslighting people. Anyone reading these comments will see through you.
You have answered my question indirectly anyway. As pointed above, by making ridiculous whataboutism with American prison system and pretending not to know that China has second biggest population, you indirectly admit that you do not care for those imprisoned under the Soviet communist SYSTEM. The problem with your standard whataboutism on prison population, is that US is not representative of capitalist countries. There are many capitalist countries with low prison population per capita. The Scandinavian countries comes to mind. The flaw in bog standard prison population talking point by communist since the 1960s is that they make attribution bias by pointing out the outlier in a trend, while ignoring the rest. They think pointing out US prison system is a gotcha to deride capitalism as a whole, but conveniently ignore other capitalist countries and also that of China, a supposedly communist country.
Lastly, trying to compare US prison population is red herring and a weak attempt at diminishing and distracting the severity of those who suffered under arbitrary arrest in the Soviet Union. Doing so is tacit approval. You accuse me of being inhumane when you compare apples and oranges to hide the suffering of those thousands who just made a joke, owned a farm, a returning prisoner of war, or a musician whose music is accused of not feeling Soviet enough. You are selectively scrutinising one injustice, but selectively ignore another if it doesn’t fit your own desires. You are a communist not because you care, but because you personally benefit from a system where you think you could have power. Same as a libertarian who would advocate for having no government because he would benefit from an unregulated free market. You know what you’re doing. An egomaniac always knows. Hitler and Stalin were also egomaniac.
Never seen such a good bad faith argument, I will give you that. All fallacies thrown into one. Th most egregious being moving the goal post. Accusing someone of which one is guilty of. A certain Nazi said that. Of course the other end of the horse shoe meets the other. I’ve debated many many likes of you to see through the bad faith arguments, especially your having cognitive dissonance right now and the holes showing.
If you want to say more logical fallacies, just hit me up. I could do this all day.
I love how this turd edits his comment instead of responding. Also, evidently doesn’t understand what per capita means. This is consistently the case with these anti communist types. They’re equal parts ignorant and dishonest. All they know how to do is to regurgitate the script they memorized and are completely unable to engage in any meaningful discussion.
If you want to say more, just hit me up. I could do this all day.
I encourage you to spend the same amount of effort you put into your trolling here to educate yourself instead. Let’s just look at what communism actually accomplishes. Maybe this could be start of the education you’re so woefully in need of.
Russia went from a backwards agrarian society where people travelled by horse and carriage to being the first in space in the span of 40 years. Russia showed incredible growth after the revolution that surpassed the rest of the world:
USSR doubled life expectancy in just 20 years. A newborn child in 1926-27 had a life expectancy of 44.4 years, up from 32.3 years thirty years before. In 1958-59 the life expectancy for newborns went up to 68.6 years. the Semashko system of the USSR increased lifespan by 50% in 20 years. By the 1960’s, lifespans in the USSR were comparable to those in the USA:
Quality of nutrition improved after the Soviet revolution, and the last time USSR had a famine was in 1940s. CIA data suggests they ate just as much as Americans after WW2 peroid while having better nutrition:
In 1987, people in the USSR could retire with pension at 55 (female) and 60 (male) while receiving 50% of their wages at a at minimum. Meanwhile, in USA the average retirement age was 62-67 and the average (not median) retiree household in the USA could expect $48k/yr which comes out to 65% of the 74k average (not median) household income in 2016:
The Soviet Union had the highest physician/patient ratio in the world. USSR had 42 doctors per 10,000 population compared to 24 in Denmark and Sweden, and 19 in US:
Here are some academic studies on USSR that you can read instead of trolling here
Professor of Economic History, Robert C. Allen, concludes in his study without the 1917 revolution is directly responsible for rapid growth that made the achievements listed above possilbe:
Study demonstrating the steady increase in quality of life during the Soviet period (including under Stalin). Includes the fact that Soviet life expectancy grew faster than any other nation recorded at the time:
A large study using world bank data analyzing the quality of life in Capitalist vs Socialist countries and finds overwhelmingly at similar levels of development with socialism bringing better quality of life:
This study compared capitalist and socialist countries in measures of the physical quality of life (PQL), taking into account the level of economic development.
This study shows that unprecedented mortality crisis struck Eastern Europe during the 1990s, causing around 7 million excess deaths. The first quantitative analysis of the association between deindustrialization and mortality in Eastern Europe.
Adult mortality increased enormously in Russia and other countries of the former Soviet Union when the Soviet system collapsed 30 years ago. https://archive.ph/9Z12u
Looks like you have done this before but I got questions: If the Russians love communism, why haven’t they elected them back to power in Duma instead of Putin’s party and letting themselves sit as the second biggest party? Why do you pretend that China has not got the second biggest prison population? How many political prisoners does the west have, aside from Assange, compared to the Soviet Union? How many Soviets were arrested for making jokes as opposed to Westerners? How many people left communist countries than leave capitalist ones?
Meanwhile, the current party is basically controlled opposition. Russia is now ruled by capitalists just the same way as western countries are.
Why do you pretend that China has not got the second biggest prison population?
Why do you still pretend that it does when I gave you two separate sources saying that it does not. Do you not understand the concept of per capita perhaps?
How many political prisoners does the west have, aside from Assange, compared to the Soviet Union?
This is your idiotic argument, so why don’t you tell me.
How many Soviets were arrested for making jokes as opposed to Westerners?
Show me Soviets who were arrested for making jokes.
How many people left communist countries than leave capitalist ones?
Tiny percentage of people left communist countries, meanwhile people who’d love to leave capitalist countries don’t have the means to.
You keep on digging there buddy, can’t believe you do this clown act for free.
Marxism advocate violent revolution, and if Russians do indeed support communism. Why haven’t the Russians overthrown Putin yet? If they have done so with the tsar, why haven’t they done with Putin? Why haven’t the Russians supported the coup against Gorbachev to retain the Soviet Union if they are indeed supportive? How would you address the Soviet Union having had the most prisoners per capita, while it took the United States decades longer to attain similar rate? If it is better in communist states, why are we not seeing people moving to communist countries en masse? Why have we seen more East Germans risked getting shot escaping the Berlin Wall, than West Germans crossing to the east? Why do you think we see more Cubans trek the sea perilously across the Caribbean to leave Cuba than people going to? What do you make of people arrested in the Soviet Union for arbitrary reason? If you are what you claim to be, have you actually heard what they say or do you deliberately ignore them? There should be plenty of Russians still alive to tell their experience being imprisoned for making jokes or simply having farms who you could talk to, no? Do their experience matter to you? If communism is better in Russia, why has it fallen?
No, Marxism does not advocate violent revolution. I’ve explained this to you earlier, but due to poor reading comprehension you’re still repeating falsehoods here. What Marxism says is that the conditions that capitalism creates ultimately lead to revolutions.
Why haven’t the Russians overthrown Putin yet?
Because conditions aren’t right. Again, if you weren’t an ignoramus, and actually read about history of revolutions, you’d understand when and why they happen. You can start by reading this book from Ray Dalio who is a very successful capitalist, so can’t be accused of being a Marxist.
Why haven’t the Russians supported the coup against Gorbachev to retain the Soviet Union if they are indeed supportive
They did, and I linked you a book discussing this in detail in the comment you’re replying to. You obviously didn’t read the linked source because you are just a troll and aren’t actually interested in answers to the questions you ask in bad faith.
To sum up, you don’t actually care about answers to the questions you’re asking. You are here to troll and that’s just pathetic to be honest.
Muscovites stopped the communist hardliners from overthrowing Gorbachev and backed Yeltsin’s support of Gorbachev. Wouldn’t you say that this is essentially stating that the Russians do not support communism?
If the standard of living in Soviet Union is better than today and communism is better overall, shouldn’t that push Russians to overthrow the current Putin government? Why did communism fall in your opinion?
How come you haven’t addressed my questions about prisoners in the Soviet Union and of their experiences? How come you are giving me questions as answers, to my query as to why East Germans tend to risk their lives crossing to West Berlin and more Cubans are attempting to leave than Westerners risking their lives to come in to communist states?
Never seen such a good bad faith argument, I will give you that. All fallacies thrown into one. Th most egregious being moving the goal post. Accusing someone of which one is guilty of. A certain Nazi said that. Of course the other end of the horse shoe meets the other. I’ve debated many many likes of you to see through the bad faith arguments, especially your having cognitive dissonance right now and the holes showing. Let’s start.
The only person making bad faith argument here is you buddy. Also, if you think that what you’re doing here passes for debate I feel sorry for you.
There is no double standard. We talked about communism and its derivative not living up to its standards.
What standards is communism not living up to, you never defined those. This is literally an example of a bad faith argument and goal post moving on your part.
Communism pruports to fight against the abuses and yet turned around on its original goals.
You have shown no such thing here. What goals does communism turns on exactly? You’re just stating random nonsense here as fact.
It just evolved on its own. Practitioners of capitalism are not one monolith out to abuse workers intentionally. There are still capitalist countries that still have better worker rights than the US.
None of the capitalist countries are able to do what USSR or Cuba have done which is ensure that everyone has housing, education, healthcare, jobs, and a retirement. That’s just a basic fact of the situation.
You brought up US prison population after I mentioned arrests under communist regimes. You doing that implies Americans are being arrested for political reasons.
It implies no such thing, and if you had basic reading comprehension skills then you’d see that I’ve explicitly said that it doesn’t matter why US claims to arrest people.
So you admit that people in the Soviet Union were imprisoned for political reasons. Ergo, and correct me if I am wrong, you’re insinuating that imprisonment in the Soviet Union is political, but it is still better than that of the US because of lower incarceration rate, even though many prisoners in the US are not political.
This is just a straw man you keep building that has nothing to do with anything I said. Nowhere did I say that USSR didn’t imprison people for political reasons. Every country arrests people for political reasons, including western capitalist regimes you’re so fond of. Assange is currently being tortured in UK for political reasons, and that’s just one example. Again, the question is regarding the rate of incarceration, and here USSR did a lot better than vast majority of capitalist regimes.
You compared arbitrary arrests in the Soviet Union to systemic racism of American prison system.
The arrests in USSR weren’t arbitrary that’s just something you made up.
Are you diminishing then the severity of arbitrary arrests without warrant and due process with the flawed racial bias of another?
You have yet to demonstrate on what basis you claim the arrests in USSR were any more arbitrary than arrests in western countries are. What made these arrests arbitrary do elaborate.
As for China’s prison population. You’d be disappointed to find out it is true. Search it on your Yandex search engine.
Why would you lie about something that can be easily googled, you’re an utter clown
Classic Russian whataboutism. It never gets old, does it? You don’t answer a question with a question. You answer with an answer. A child would even know this. How many times will people tell you, most of the US prisoners are detained not for political reasons. The US isn’t also representative of capitalist countries.
What do you make of China having second largest prison population then?
Again, do you approve or disapprove of those detained under communist regimes?
I love how you immediately start screeching whataboutism when faced with your double standards. The fact that you don’t understand that you have to hold different systems to the same standard shows that you’re an intellectually impoverished person.
Any problems seen under communism are also seen under capitalism, and they’re often far worse. That’s the context for comparing the systems, is one system creating more problems than the other. Even a child could comprehend that, but evidently you are unable to.
Who gives a shit for what reason US claims it detains all the people for. The fact that it detains by far the highest percentage out of any country is what actually matters. Also, if you think that systemic racism is a better reason to detain people that says a lot about you as a person.
I think that further exposes you either an idiot or a liar because China doesn’t have the second largest prison population.
I think that’s a loaded question asked in bad faith. I don’t think every person detained under communism was detained for a good reason, just the same as I don’t think that every person detained under capitalist regimes is detained for a good reason. However, what I do know for a fact is that capitalist regimes detain far more people than communist ones. That’s the real elephant in the room that you keep dancing around because you’re an intellectually dishonest individual.
Edit: reading at OP’s response below, there is deliberate feigning of ignorance on China having second biggest prison population as well as mass arrest of civilians in Soviet Union. It is true that the West has flaws and has imprisoned questionable prisoners, like Assange, but the Soviet Union has made mass arrests on civilians and dissidents. We don’t see any large scale in the West.
The interlocutor also threw so many links down below on the second comment as gish gallop tactic. No one could possibly write that much in less than one hour since I made my comment judging by the timestamp. This is a standard troll tactic. Many links actually either contradict what the interlocutor say because they only read the abstract and misrepresent the full study, or the research being presented has deliberate bias and/or misinformation. They also throw in too much information for individual counter arguments to be made. It is gish galloping. With all being said, it is very suspicious that this is not a coordinated effort. If not, could be someone with too much time on their hands.
Lastly, the interlocutor says Russians approve the Soviet Union (if that is the case, they would have supported the communist coup against Gorbachev in the 1990s to retain the Soviet Union). I will not bother reading the articles just thrown in (which I doubt the person even have properly read them), but knowing the Russian mindset, they just take in whatever leaders there are. Centuries of top-down leadership made them malleable to authority figures. People are not always predisposed to crave democracy. Many times, they want authoritarianism and the promise of stability and many were nostalgic of either fascist and communist regimes because of perceived stability, despite the iron-fisted rule. If communism is still popular in Russia, then the communist party should have been elected to power not Putin’s party. Nonetheless, the fact that more people defect from communist countries than the other way says a lot about communism.
Edit2: The person made more comments At least he/she admit Russian communists are controlled opposition. But doesn’t Marxism advocate for violent revolution. Why hasn’t the Russians then try to overthrow the current government despite the corruption and if communism is popular as he/she claim? Wouldn’t this show that communism isn’t as popular?
It is curious to see someone moving the goalpost constantly. If one wishes to discuss per prison population, the interlocutor conveniently ignore that the Soviet Union has had more prisoner population per capita then because of political prisoners and arbitrary arrests. Then of course the person will not address those who were arrested for simply making jokes under communism. Either he/she hasn’t spoken to someone arrested before, or maybe served as someone as a communist authority figure in the past? If the person is trying to be humanitarian figure, as it portrays to be, he/she would acknowledge this.
There is no double standard. We talked about communism and its derivative not living up to its standards. Communism pruports to fight against the abuses and yet turned around on its original goals. Capitalism, on the other hand, is not a dogma. It just evolved on its own. Practitioners of capitalism are not one monolith out to abuse workers intentionally. There are still capitalist countries that still have better worker rights than the US.
You brought up US prison population after I mentioned arrests under communist regimes. You doing that implies Americans are being arrested for political reason, which is rare if ever. As you have justified in your previous post: “All revolutions are messy, and require purging the regressive elements.” So you admit that people in the Soviet Union were imprisoned for political reasons. Ergo, and correct me if I am wrong, you’re insinuating that imprisonment in the Soviet Union is political, but it is still better than that of the US because of lower incarceration rate, even though many prisoners in the US are not political.
That being said, you just admitted that now you don’t care why the US has higher prison population and handwaving as to why the Soviet Union incarcerated political prisoners. You compared arbitrary arrests in the Soviet Union to systemic racism of American prison system. Are you diminishing then the severity of arbitrary arrests without warrant and due process with the flawed racial bias of another? You do justify the atrocities and flaws of communism by hand waving it and basically stating that: “Any problems seen under communism are also seen under capitalism, and they’re often far worse.” Are you telling me, that any flaws in communism could be ignored since capitalism is doing it anyway? Are you admitting to what communist regimes have done? Isn’t the point of Marxist teaching is to dismantle the system of capitalism and offer alternative to more humane system than capitalism?
As for China’s prison population. You’d be disappointed to find out it is true. Search it on your Yandex search engine.
Oh, got a player do we? Want to play that game of answering a question with a non-answer? Do you happen to be a politician? I will give you extra points for even trying to gaslight me that I’m acting in bad faith even though you never initially answered my question, and instead gave all sorts of easy to point argument fallacies. A standard politician with egomania could answer with non-answer while gaslighting people. Anyone reading these comments will see through you.
You have answered my question indirectly anyway. As pointed above, by making ridiculous whataboutism with American prison system and pretending not to know that China has second biggest population, you indirectly admit that you do not care for those imprisoned under the Soviet communist SYSTEM. The problem with your standard whataboutism on prison population, is that US is not representative of capitalist countries. There are many capitalist countries with low prison population per capita. The Scandinavian countries comes to mind. The flaw in bog standard prison population talking point by communist since the 1960s is that they make attribution bias by pointing out the outlier in a trend, while ignoring the rest. They think pointing out US prison system is a gotcha to deride capitalism as a whole, but conveniently ignore other capitalist countries and also that of China, a supposedly communist country.
Lastly, trying to compare US prison population is red herring and a weak attempt at diminishing and distracting the severity of those who suffered under arbitrary arrest in the Soviet Union. Doing so is tacit approval. You accuse me of being inhumane when you compare apples and oranges to hide the suffering of those thousands who just made a joke, owned a farm, a returning prisoner of war, or a musician whose music is accused of not feeling Soviet enough. You are selectively scrutinising one injustice, but selectively ignore another if it doesn’t fit your own desires. You are a communist not because you care, but because you personally benefit from a system where you think you could have power. Same as a libertarian who would advocate for having no government because he would benefit from an unregulated free market. You know what you’re doing. An egomaniac always knows. Hitler and Stalin were also egomaniac.
Never seen such a good bad faith argument, I will give you that. All fallacies thrown into one. Th most egregious being moving the goal post. Accusing someone of which one is guilty of. A certain Nazi said that. Of course the other end of the horse shoe meets the other. I’ve debated many many likes of you to see through the bad faith arguments, especially your having cognitive dissonance right now and the holes showing. If you want to say more logical fallacies, just hit me up. I could do this all day.
I love how this turd edits his comment instead of responding. Also, evidently doesn’t understand what per capita means. This is consistently the case with these anti communist types. They’re equal parts ignorant and dishonest. All they know how to do is to regurgitate the script they memorized and are completely unable to engage in any meaningful discussion.
I encourage you to spend the same amount of effort you put into your trolling here to educate yourself instead. Let’s just look at what communism actually accomplishes. Maybe this could be start of the education you’re so woefully in need of.
Russia went from a backwards agrarian society where people travelled by horse and carriage to being the first in space in the span of 40 years. Russia showed incredible growth after the revolution that surpassed the rest of the world:
USSR provided free education to all citizens resulting in literacy rising from 33% to 99.9%:
USSR doubled life expectancy in just 20 years. A newborn child in 1926-27 had a life expectancy of 44.4 years, up from 32.3 years thirty years before. In 1958-59 the life expectancy for newborns went up to 68.6 years. the Semashko system of the USSR increased lifespan by 50% in 20 years. By the 1960’s, lifespans in the USSR were comparable to those in the USA:
Quality of nutrition improved after the Soviet revolution, and the last time USSR had a famine was in 1940s. CIA data suggests they ate just as much as Americans after WW2 peroid while having better nutrition:
USSR moved from 58.5-hour work weeks to 41.6 hour work weeks (-0.36 h/yr) between 1913 and 1960:
USSR averaged 22 days of paid leave in 1986 while USA averaged 7.6 in 1996:
In 1987, people in the USSR could retire with pension at 55 (female) and 60 (male) while receiving 50% of their wages at a at minimum. Meanwhile, in USA the average retirement age was 62-67 and the average (not median) retiree household in the USA could expect $48k/yr which comes out to 65% of the 74k average (not median) household income in 2016:
GDP took off after socialism was established and then collapsed with the reintroduction of capitalism:
The Soviet Union had the highest physician/patient ratio in the world. USSR had 42 doctors per 10,000 population compared to 24 in Denmark and Sweden, and 19 in US:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0735675784900482 (sci-hub for access)
USSR defeated a smallpox epidemic in a matter of 19 days https://www.rbth.com/history/331857-how-ussr-defeated-black-smallpox
The Social Consequences of Soviet Immunization Policies https://www.ucis.pitt.edu/nceeer/1997-812-03g-Hoch.pdf
Here are some academic studies on USSR that you can read instead of trolling here
Professor of Economic History, Robert C. Allen, concludes in his study without the 1917 revolution is directly responsible for rapid growth that made the achievements listed above possilbe:
Study demonstrating the steady increase in quality of life during the Soviet period (including under Stalin). Includes the fact that Soviet life expectancy grew faster than any other nation recorded at the time:
A large study using world bank data analyzing the quality of life in Capitalist vs Socialist countries and finds overwhelmingly at similar levels of development with socialism bringing better quality of life:
This study compared capitalist and socialist countries in measures of the physical quality of life (PQL), taking into account the level of economic development.
This study shows that unprecedented mortality crisis struck Eastern Europe during the 1990s, causing around 7 million excess deaths. The first quantitative analysis of the association between deindustrialization and mortality in Eastern Europe.
Finally, we can look at what people who lived under communism feel now that they got a taste of capitalism have to say:
Adult mortality increased enormously in Russia and other countries of the former Soviet Union when the Soviet system collapsed 30 years ago. https://archive.ph/9Z12u
Former Soviet Countries See More Harm From Breakup https://news.gallup.com/poll/166538/former-soviet-countries-harm-breakup.aspx
Looks like you have done this before but I got questions: If the Russians love communism, why haven’t they elected them back to power in Duma instead of Putin’s party and letting themselves sit as the second biggest party? Why do you pretend that China has not got the second biggest prison population? How many political prisoners does the west have, aside from Assange, compared to the Soviet Union? How many Soviets were arrested for making jokes as opposed to Westerners? How many people left communist countries than leave capitalist ones?
If you’re genuinely curious then you can read chapters 6 and 7 in this book on how Russia transitioned into capitalism https://valleysunderground.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/blackshirts-and-reds-by-michael-parenti.pdf
Meanwhile, the current party is basically controlled opposition. Russia is now ruled by capitalists just the same way as western countries are.
Why do you still pretend that it does when I gave you two separate sources saying that it does not. Do you not understand the concept of per capita perhaps?
This is your idiotic argument, so why don’t you tell me.
Show me Soviets who were arrested for making jokes.
Tiny percentage of people left communist countries, meanwhile people who’d love to leave capitalist countries don’t have the means to.
You keep on digging there buddy, can’t believe you do this clown act for free.
Marxism advocate violent revolution, and if Russians do indeed support communism. Why haven’t the Russians overthrown Putin yet? If they have done so with the tsar, why haven’t they done with Putin? Why haven’t the Russians supported the coup against Gorbachev to retain the Soviet Union if they are indeed supportive? How would you address the Soviet Union having had the most prisoners per capita, while it took the United States decades longer to attain similar rate? If it is better in communist states, why are we not seeing people moving to communist countries en masse? Why have we seen more East Germans risked getting shot escaping the Berlin Wall, than West Germans crossing to the east? Why do you think we see more Cubans trek the sea perilously across the Caribbean to leave Cuba than people going to? What do you make of people arrested in the Soviet Union for arbitrary reason? If you are what you claim to be, have you actually heard what they say or do you deliberately ignore them? There should be plenty of Russians still alive to tell their experience being imprisoned for making jokes or simply having farms who you could talk to, no? Do their experience matter to you? If communism is better in Russia, why has it fallen?
No, Marxism does not advocate violent revolution. I’ve explained this to you earlier, but due to poor reading comprehension you’re still repeating falsehoods here. What Marxism says is that the conditions that capitalism creates ultimately lead to revolutions.
Because conditions aren’t right. Again, if you weren’t an ignoramus, and actually read about history of revolutions, you’d understand when and why they happen. You can start by reading this book from Ray Dalio who is a very successful capitalist, so can’t be accused of being a Marxist.
They did, and I linked you a book discussing this in detail in the comment you’re replying to. You obviously didn’t read the linked source because you are just a troll and aren’t actually interested in answers to the questions you ask in bad faith.
To sum up, you don’t actually care about answers to the questions you’re asking. You are here to troll and that’s just pathetic to be honest.
Muscovites stopped the communist hardliners from overthrowing Gorbachev and backed Yeltsin’s support of Gorbachev. Wouldn’t you say that this is essentially stating that the Russians do not support communism?
If the standard of living in Soviet Union is better than today and communism is better overall, shouldn’t that push Russians to overthrow the current Putin government? Why did communism fall in your opinion?
How come you haven’t addressed my questions about prisoners in the Soviet Union and of their experiences? How come you are giving me questions as answers, to my query as to why East Germans tend to risk their lives crossing to West Berlin and more Cubans are attempting to leave than Westerners risking their lives to come in to communist states?
The only person making bad faith argument here is you buddy. Also, if you think that what you’re doing here passes for debate I feel sorry for you.
What standards is communism not living up to, you never defined those. This is literally an example of a bad faith argument and goal post moving on your part.
You have shown no such thing here. What goals does communism turns on exactly? You’re just stating random nonsense here as fact.
None of the capitalist countries are able to do what USSR or Cuba have done which is ensure that everyone has housing, education, healthcare, jobs, and a retirement. That’s just a basic fact of the situation.
It implies no such thing, and if you had basic reading comprehension skills then you’d see that I’ve explicitly said that it doesn’t matter why US claims to arrest people.
This is just a straw man you keep building that has nothing to do with anything I said. Nowhere did I say that USSR didn’t imprison people for political reasons. Every country arrests people for political reasons, including western capitalist regimes you’re so fond of. Assange is currently being tortured in UK for political reasons, and that’s just one example. Again, the question is regarding the rate of incarceration, and here USSR did a lot better than vast majority of capitalist regimes.
The arrests in USSR weren’t arbitrary that’s just something you made up.
You have yet to demonstrate on what basis you claim the arrests in USSR were any more arbitrary than arrests in western countries are. What made these arrests arbitrary do elaborate.
Why would you lie about something that can be easily googled, you’re an utter clown