No, I’m not talking about meta discussions like the ones in this community. I think the value and necessity of those posts is pretty apparent.
I’ve been noticing something this morning while browsing All on the instance: i am seeing are a lot of SFW celebrity posts occurring on the sever, along with a number of communities dedicated to an individual celebrity.
For example, I just saw a post to a Gillian Anderson community with a “headshot” type pic of her in a what I would call a regular dress.
What does the general community think of this type of content being posted to lemmynsfw?
My first feeling is “eh, whatever, live and let live. If you don’t like it, block the community/poster so you don’t see it.” But at the same time, I just blocked several communities and I’m still seeing more… it just seems weird to post a bunch of SFW content to an NSFW dedicated instance.
As an aside, I realize I can just browse Subscribed, but I like browsing All to discover new communities.
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My personal take is if it’s not NSFW it shouldn’t be on an explicitly NSFW instance. Plenty of instances allow non-NSFW communities, and allow NSFW posts in those communities if they are tagged as such. Lemmy servers aren’t free, real people are running this and off-brand/topic posts are a wasteful drain on resources, even if they’re minor. I’m fine with blocking all the NSFW communities I don’t want to see (lotta gay porn stuff I’m not into for example, but totally fine if others dig it), but headshots of celebrities from red carpet events and similar posts/communities just shouldn’t be on the instance. Put it on an SFW instance, more people will see it, and if people want to see it here it will still show up as long as they’re federated.
I agree also. Though it would mean most of those celeb communities would not be here (since it’s very unlikely most celebs really have any true/real NSFW content publicly available)
So what do you do with communities like gone mild, gentlemanboners, cosplay, or, to walk the line even closer /c/feet? The majority of the content on the latter one is purely pictures of feet, nothing else, would you ban all that as well then? Where do you draw the line? How much clothes does someone need to wear to be considered nsfw? Or is it the pose/actions? Is there some clothing/lewd action ratio that demarcates the boundary between sfw and nsfw?
Not to sound glib, but I would lean back on what is the commonly accepted notion of what makes some content be considered “NSFW” such that you wouldn’t display it at a “workplace” as a screensaver. It’s like the old saying about what is “porn”. And I totally realize we could next go down the rabbithole and start debating about what is the line that defines a “workplace” 😉
Using only images of feet as one example, why would normal pictures of feet in daily life context be considered NSFW? And why would that community want to be considered as such in the first place? Otoh if the same feet is depicted as engaged in the act of giving a footjob, or inserted in a vagina, then that content/context becomes NSFW right? I wouldn’t consider two pairs of feet simply touching to be NSFW, but the same two pair squishing in scat would definitely be NSFW.
When I created !squatwearingheels@lemmynsfw.com, and !squattinggirls@lemmynsfw.com, I originally had the clause that nudity is not required, but I’ve since changed the description to require “some nudity” which is now what I consider the difference/line. [Addition: example of blurry line - see comment in https://lemmynsfw.com/post/86287?scrollToComments=true]
I do realize there are infinite number of context variations that can blur the lines.
But you have to admit that even that workplace line is blurry at best right? A celeb in bikini, on the catwalk with massive cleavage, on a red carpet with a slightly risqué dress,… To me as long as there’s people finding it sexy, attractive, arousing… I’d say it fits in this instance’s theme. Everything else is purely up to taste and you’ve got the block community and subscription functionalities to tailor the available content to your taste. You’re already using those since I cannot imagine anyone existing who is into each and every single fetish that’s available on this instance.
Now if its the amount of communities that you have a problem with, then it’s a different discussion. Then I’d say it becomes more so about what we consider to be be spam creation of communities and what not, because mind you, for each community dedicated to a specific celeb, I can guarantee you there’ll be one for an adult actress as well.
In short, I think the discussion is much more nuanced than saying we’re just gonna blanket x or Y content because some people don’t consider it nsfw enough :)
Yup, I did already say we’ll start debating about workplace definition 😉, and the discussions are/will be very nuanced based on context.
I have no issues with comms for adult/porn models here as they are by intention NSFW, right?. The discussion here imo is mainly about communities that are overwhelmly SFW focused and the “costs” associated with hosting/maintaining them on a clearly NSFW instance.
As I said elsewhere, the “cost” argument doesn’t hold in my opinion. If I with my lemmynsfw account subscribe to /c/tractors on a completely different instance, that entire community’s content gets pulled to this instance anyways, so whether or not the community is created here or elsewhere, if there’s at least 1 user on this instance subscribed to it, it’ll create exactly the same cost on this instance, that’s just how the fediverse works…
I definitely agree that the lines are blurry and imperfect. You’re never going to be able to create a set of hard and fast rules that tell you what is SFW and NSFW.
In my opinion, the line should probably be more NSFW than “would you display it as a screensaver on your work computer”. Taking the term NSFW literally, your definition there is great. But I think the meaning of NSFW in communities such as this leans toward the pornographic and content guidelines should mirror that usage of “NSFW”.
A few examples of why I think the literal NSFW definition isn’t a good way to determine appropriate content for this instance:
- a Garfield cartoon where Garfield is shouting “FUCK”
- Racist content
- gore/horror
I think most people agree that these things should not be shown on a work computer. But I also don’t think they are the type of content that should be hosted here. Not that I have any say over what is and is not appropriate for the instance. For all know, they did intend this instance to capture broader NSFW content than sexual/pornographic stuff.
For celebrity communities that I’ve created, I don’t mark them as NSFW. So maybe a filter for only show NSFW communities on the “All” page will be okay ? So, you don’t have to worry about that celebrities.
For some hardcore/explicit ones, such as /c/JerkOffToCelebs maybe or not the pictures/videos will be NSFW but the title/comments would be wild. So, every post should mark as NSFW. Same for the user that made the /c/WatchItForThePlot community, I believe
The thing about these celebrities’ fetishes, I’m not an expert but for me and people who have the same interest, sometimes it’s not necessary to see them sexy/naked/having sex to get the impression that is “Not Safe for Work”. But yeah, once again everything should be marked properly. If it’s 50/50, I will message the poster and discuss it even with the other user in that community
A community I made to about /c/politicians for Female Politicians’ content that gets you aroused or something like that. I can say 90%+ content on that community would be not explicit, but people who have the same interest would start saying something wild and fantasizing about them. So, in that matter, every post that contains it should mark as NSFW
Maybe you didn’t notice, but most of the time I’ve held myself to not posting because I know that if I post too much at a time, it will be very annoying. It’s a different case If this instance is very crowded with big posters that have potentially a lot of upvotes, then my posts wouldn’t have a lot of engagement.
I joined lemmy in early June/end of May. It was just like less than 100 instances, it’s hard to find instances that allowed these communities that I’ve made. I’m worried to make these kinda communities for instance that talk more about politics, technology, reddit, or something like that. Well, I know /kbin for a while but they are still a lot more to do to function the site well before I will contribute a lot there.
I’m just a guest here who wants to help contribute to this instance for people who have the same interest. I read the sitewide rules and always keep up with /c/lemmynsfw posts. I will respect this instance’s rules. If these types of communities are forbidden, you can restrict them or even delete them. I have no rights
For moderation, even with that many communities, I have moderated approximately posts (besides myself) about 20+ posts/day, and users’ reports are very helpful as well. So, right now, it won’t be a problem for me to handle that. But of course, as the communities continue to grow, I will invite a few users that have contributed a lot and have the understanding to moderate
If you want to block all my celebrity communities, just ask me. I will give you the list. Maybe we can discuss this with /c/NSFW411 mod for categorizing ? I’ve noticed they are already doing it. And probably a feature to block communities in bulk ?
I am so sorry for this. I didn’t intend to make this amount of trouble
Given the fact that your communities pop up regularly in active/hot, I’d say there’s at the very least a fair bit of interest in them from the people on this instance, so I definitely wouldn’t feel bad about it, it’s clear that there’s plenty people enjoying your content
I haven’t seen what’s active/hot for a while. Right now, I should sort it to Subscribed > New. Because, while browsing I have to moderate as well. It is very limited for moderators to moderate as of now. I believe soon the features would be better.
That’s all very kind of you and thank you for working to manage the effect of these communities on the instance. I think, as others have said, it’s the number of celeb-specific communities that seem to keep appearing that contribute to the “issue”, as the community blocking can feel never ending.
I agree, a “NSFW” only filter would be a wonderful addition. Hopefully it’s something we’ll see in the future. It’s worth saying again, I’m not looking for these communities to be blocked. Clearly there is a demand for them and I understand the general reason for them being on an NSFW instance.
I’d disagree with the notion that this should be purely a NSFW instance; allowing such things, yes. But disallowing everything else? Also in regards to future more extensive federation with other instances once mod tools and UI (auto mark nsfw!) improve. I’d say connected communities are always healthier than segregated ones; filtered, yes, but permeable if you want them to. If we make this a walled garden of purely strictly NSFW content, it will also be a ghetto.
And regarding seeing content you’re not interested in, you already said it: With a growing user base this is bound to happen no matter what content rules you have, so use the Subscribed view, that’s what it’s there for. Disallowing certain content so you don’t have to use the Subscribed view is filtering content at completely the wrong point.
So, bring it on! SFW meme communities about NSFW topics, SFW-looking communities with links to NSFW content, text-based role playing communities, those for meta discussion or help or just chat. It can’t all be pics of boobies, that would sell the wonderful world of sex and what’s literally “not safe for work” immensely short.
I’m finding that all the individual celebrity communities are getting a bit more annoying to sort through and block one by one especially when one is first made and someone uploads a handful of starter posts and they form poat clusters no matter what filter setting I’m using.
I wouldn’t say disallow celebrity posting but I also don’t think we need an individual community for every good looking celebrity either. Maybe consolidate it all into a few broader celebrity based communities with a more general themeing.
Hi, since I created !celebs@lemmynsfw.com, I have the feeling of being called into question :D
Let me share some points you may or may not have considered:
- It’s 100% true that some of the posts there are SFW, but honestly, I would not feel comfortable looking at the celebs’ posts flagged NSFW while being… well… at work; I saw a recent similar discussion about feet pics, same story, IMHO a picture doesn’t need nipples to be considered NSFW
- As pointed out by @Duck@lemmynsfw.com, my strict rule of Title=Celebrity is to facilitate filtering (this was my approach with Sync tbh). My intention was indeed to create a single space for all the celebs, letting everyone be able to easily filter his/her crush
- About the single-celeb dedicated communities, I see your point, clearly, they are in line with my tastes, but I do recognize the hassle of blocking them if it’s not your cup of tea. @Madness@lemmynsfw.com put a lot of effort into managing those comms, if the admins intend to remove this type of content, it would be nice to let him know sooner than later
- Generally speaking, I also like the all view instead of the subscribed, that’s why my list of blocked communities, at the moment, has 52 items
- Engagement; now I can’t tell exactly the rank because I blocked some of the popular comms, but /c/celebs should be in the top half of the first page of /communities, this means that there is a non-trivial number of people interested in the topic
- Visibility; being technically an SFW community (I removed the NSFW global flag after yay’s message), with some SFW posts, it pops in the feed of other instances helping the discovery of lemmynsfw.com and driving traffic here
Having said that, I don’t have a horse in this race, like many of you I was coming from Reddit where my NSFW account was filled with celebs-related subs (no kink shaming please xD) and I lurked the hell of it, here I tried to bootstrap a community that is what I would have already wanted to find.
Thanks for attending my TED talk! :D
Sorry for indirectly calling you out :)
I’m not advocating for banning such content, I was just curious how others feel about it. I was also hoping to see if people had ideas for good ways to manage SFW content at the instance and user level. Off the top of my head, being able to filter to only show NSFW content would be nice, but I don’t know if that is at all possible to implement.
I also appreciate your efforts to create a centralized community.
I’d disagree with the notion that this should be purely a NSFW instance; lowing such things, yes. But disallowing everything else? Also in regards to future extensive federation once mod tools and UI improve (auto mark nsfw!). I’d say connected communities are healthier than segregated ones; filtered, yes, but permeable if you want to. If we make this a walled garden of purely NSFW content, it will also be a ghetto.
And regarding seeing content you’re not interested in, you already said it: With a growing user base this is bound to happen no matter what rules you have, use the Subscribed view, that’s what it’s there for. Disallowing certain content so you don’t have to use that view is filtering content at completely the wrong point.
One man’s headshot is another man’s spank bank. IDK what cranks another person’s gearshaft, but if it’s fully clothed pictures of Gillian Anderson, that’s none of my business.
I definitly think it makes more sense to allow communities, even if they dont make the most sense overall. I mean its not really harming anyone, and people can just block it if they dont want to see it (i think most people usually browse by subscribed anyway)
In a strange turn of events
Lol. I totally agree. It felt a little bizarro world to write the post.
Where do you draw the line though? I personally agree that a community for each and every celeb might be a bit excessive, especially with the celebs rule enforcing the title=name of the celeb the community making it easily filterable. But in terms of taste, to each their own. Are we gonna ban any post/community that’s not explicit? No more cos play girls, gone mild, bathing suits,… Full frontal nudity or bust? The argument about server space some people bring up is a bit weird imo. If someone on here were to subscribe to c/tractors on another instance with their account on this instance, all of c/tractors would get pulled into this instance as well…
I feel like this should be polled. Because, as you said, it is more of an annoyance than an actual issue. It is probably something as a community we would need to decide on.
Personally, I am here to mainly browse All/New so I’m just going to be blocking them regardless of where they are posting.
I have most of them all blocked now, but is was a little tedious logging on and seeing several new specific celebrity communities made each day with posts of just regular fully clothed people in my Local/New tab. It prolly wouldn’t be as annoying if there was just one community titled “celebs” with posts about all the random celebrities (easier to block). But man… someone is putting in the work to make an individual community for every single celebrity in existance.
While the celebrity posts could be fetish thing, we should probably address questions like: Would it be acceptable if someone started a community here posting about farming or tractor repair? (Non-sexual)
If this is a NSFW instance I didn’t see what’s the point about posting SFW.
Coming into this discussion, I completely had the same “whatever” attitude of OP. But I think @BrainisfineIthink@lemmy.one makes a great point about the cost and money of Lemmy servers. I do appreciate the time, money, and effort it takes to keep LemmyNSFW running, and I think it’s entirely fair to say that those comms should not be the responsibility of the admins to support. So I guess I’ve been swayed and now come down mildly against them. That said, at the end of the day I think it’s an admin call. They are the ones that have to expend resources to support those comms, and they are NOT part of the core “mission” of the instance, as it were, so I’m good with the decision being entirely in their hands.
Maybe that’s a bit wishy-washy, but as a user I don’t think it directly affects me much.
This is a topic that has been loosely discussed so far, but I agree it needs to be considered more. Very interested in thoughts here from those in the community.
I’m not too bothered enough where I think it needs to not be on this instance and at best, I just mute it and carry on.
