Perhaps some facets of libertarianism are really fucked up?
Slavery and child porn are debated by libertarians because the only way to address both is centralized government. However, since most (though not all) libertarians are opposed to any central government, they end up justifying with “well if you want to sell yourself as a slave, why should anyone stop you?”.
But yeah, obviously it’s us that are aware of this who are the fucked up ones.
Pretty sure the libertarian stance on slavery is that it is wrong, given the lack of liberty that slaves have. And the fact you can use a government to ensure nobody gets enslaved demonstrates the difference between a libertarian and an anarchist.
The maximum amount of personal liberty does not come from zero government. It comes from
having enough government to prevent people from enslaving other people.
Pretty sure the libertarian stance on slavery is that it is wrong
Libertarians are VERY individualistic (shocker) which means no 2 libertarians define libertarianism the same way.
HOWEVER, you literally just have to search for “slavery libertarian” in the google box to find all sorts of fairly high profile libertarians arguing about how slavery can actually be a good thing that we should allow.
You didn’t read the article you linked. In it Walter Block states that slavery violates the non-aggression-principle and is not permissible under libertarianism.
Let us now double down. Previously (Block 2005; 2013) wrote that
slavery, in the absence of violence, compulsion, NAP violation was ―not so
bad.‖ That was a poor choice of words. It was an inaccurate understatement.
The truth of the matter is that under these conditions ―slavery‖ would be a positive good. There, I said it. I will say it again: ―Slavery‖ would be a
positive good, under these conditions. Make of that what you will, New York Times and other enemies of freedom and logic. But note that when I assert that ―slavery‖ would be a benefit, two things occurred. First, I placed quote
marks (―‖) around the word ―slavery‖ and second I mentioned that under these conditions it would be beneficial. I did not say, and I entirely reject the notion that slavery as actually practiced was anything other than a disgrace, a stark horrid evil. It is my view that the movies ―Django Unchained,‖
―Twelve Years a Slave,‖ and the television series ―Roots‖ are roughly accurate depictions of this monstrous practice
The only slavery I can think of without compulsion would be some kind of BDSM relationship, so he’s technically correct it’s no problem in that scenario.
Aside from any kind of roleplay, slavery involves compulsion. Slavery without compulsion is like an apple without fruit.
I’m curious what the downvotes are for… Are they saying there’s no helping them or even the thought of helping them is bad?
Of literally all the kinds of people in the world with all the kinds of mental issues they could have, I’ve never seen more vicious hatred of a group than pedophiles. Not to defend them, but it could be as simple as having a sexual attraction but literally never acting on it, yet still I see “kill them, drag them by their genitals, let dogs eat them alive and pee on them” etc… that kind of absolute dehumanizing hatred. Even the sociopaths that are literally destroying the world get by with less violent hatred.
Again, not defending pedophiles, I just think that if it’s an issue of mental help then they should be helped, not hunted.
The implication of sexual attraction being a mental health issue is fraught.
Before you let someone drag you down that slope it’s important include consent. Someone underage can’t consent to you dipping your balls in their mouth. Same for peanut butter and your pet.
Folks like to conflate pedo and by extension homo and trans as a mental health issue. Then they try to make an argument about how a trans teen can’t consent to gender care because they’re underage. As if fucking a kid is the same as a kid saying they need help.
The “pedo and mental health” comment smells like this kind of bait. It doesn’t look exactly like a Nazi, but it kinda smells like one.
I definitely understand what you’re saying, but there have to be people who find children attractive but don’t act on it so consent isn’t really the issue there, but we still have the problem of how society sees those people and the possibility of the mental anguish those people must feel. I can’t imagine what it must feel like to be “the worst human trash in the history of the world” while also not behaving in that way. :(
I guess it’s more of a “them” problem as they aren’t acting on their attractions, maybe society shouldn’t be involved in that one? I don’t know… It just bothers me when I see that kind of hatred when there’s no way 100% of pedophiles actually act on their attractions.
No definitely not shit posting lol sorry if it seemed that way.
I didn’t want to really reveal anything, but this is a personal thing as I know someone who is in this situation. And no I’m not reporting them, that’s not only a literal death sentence for them but I’ve known this person long enough to know they’d never hurt anyone. They opened up about seeing pictures when we were drunk a long time ago and so it bothers me when I see the hatred because I think of my friend so I’m just getting a feel for what people think.
Then this sounds like an actual mental health thing and not a dog whistle. I don’t actually have any answers. Just years of experience reading useless internet comments.
Seek a professional if you can. I don’t even know if you’re in a nation where just looking for help wouldn’t get you or your friend killed. Good luck.
Thanks! That’s kind of how I feel too, it’s a really difficult topic because of what was mentioned before as far as connecting mental health to attraction, but there definitely seems to be some forms of attraction that are problematic.
From what I remember at the time, I believe he said he can’t go get help because they have a duty to report him if he were to bring it up. Anyway, thanks for the time!
Instead of reasoning that X is true or false based on evidence that it’s true or false, one reasons that X must be false because if it were true it might encourage thinking Y, where Y is unacceptable.
Literally the definition of ideologically-motivated reasoning.
I like that we’re getting into debate and philosophy in a shitpost.
There’s this idea that valuable discourse only belongs at universities and in lofty state office. I say it’s here in the shit that we’re shaping tomorrow’s culture.
I’m classifing pedophilia as a mental illness yes but transexuality and homosexuality is of course not.
When I stated pedophillia I meant the sole attraction to children alone not actions that’s immoral and a crime. I want pedophiles to be able to address this early on and be able to seek treatment.
Also, what does my comment have to do with nazism at all? I am lib-left. “Smells like one”? For suggesting pedophiles should get mental help? Forgive me but is this a serious accusation or a joke that went past my head entirely?
This is not at all a debate in libertarianism. Libertarians recognize the role of a limited small government to protect individual rights. Like please pull up one example of this debate going on in a libertarian space.
Libertarians don’t believe murder should be legal and crazy shit like that. Libertarians believe in a guaranteed freedoms like freedom of speech, economic liberalism and are often social progressives who believe in gay marriage and drug legalization.
The bill of rights was brought to you by libertarians.
Those mentions are of systemic state-run murder. That doesn’t make every murder a crime against humanity, especially vigilante justice against literal slavers.
“assassination” is the crime against humanity, although pretty sure it’s “only just” a war crime. Although when not carried out by a govt agent, since we’re talking a hypothetical libertarian society and solution, IDK if 8t can be called that.
Perhaps some facets of libertarianism are really fucked up?
Slavery and child porn are debated by libertarians because the only way to address both is centralized government. However, since most (though not all) libertarians are opposed to any central government, they end up justifying with “well if you want to sell yourself as a slave, why should anyone stop you?”.
But yeah, obviously it’s us that are aware of this who are the fucked up ones.
Pretty sure the libertarian stance on slavery is that it is wrong, given the lack of liberty that slaves have. And the fact you can use a government to ensure nobody gets enslaved demonstrates the difference between a libertarian and an anarchist.
The maximum amount of personal liberty does not come from zero government. It comes from having enough government to prevent people from enslaving other people.
Libertarians are VERY individualistic (shocker) which means no 2 libertarians define libertarianism the same way.
HOWEVER, you literally just have to search for “slavery libertarian” in the google box to find all sorts of fairly high profile libertarians arguing about how slavery can actually be a good thing that we should allow.
For example, from Walter Block: http://www.kspjournals.org/index.php/JEST/article/view/346
You didn’t read the article you linked. In it Walter Block states that slavery violates the non-aggression-principle and is not permissible under libertarianism.
The only slavery I can think of without compulsion would be some kind of BDSM relationship, so he’s technically correct it’s no problem in that scenario.
Aside from any kind of roleplay, slavery involves compulsion. Slavery without compulsion is like an apple without fruit.
What do you think he’s saying here?
I’d argue pedophilia can be to some degree be addressed with proper mental healthcare.
I’m curious what the downvotes are for… Are they saying there’s no helping them or even the thought of helping them is bad?
Of literally all the kinds of people in the world with all the kinds of mental issues they could have, I’ve never seen more vicious hatred of a group than pedophiles. Not to defend them, but it could be as simple as having a sexual attraction but literally never acting on it, yet still I see “kill them, drag them by their genitals, let dogs eat them alive and pee on them” etc… that kind of absolute dehumanizing hatred. Even the sociopaths that are literally destroying the world get by with less violent hatred.
Again, not defending pedophiles, I just think that if it’s an issue of mental help then they should be helped, not hunted.
The implication of sexual attraction being a mental health issue is fraught.
Before you let someone drag you down that slope it’s important include consent. Someone underage can’t consent to you dipping your balls in their mouth. Same for peanut butter and your pet.
Folks like to conflate pedo and by extension homo and trans as a mental health issue. Then they try to make an argument about how a trans teen can’t consent to gender care because they’re underage. As if fucking a kid is the same as a kid saying they need help.
The “pedo and mental health” comment smells like this kind of bait. It doesn’t look exactly like a Nazi, but it kinda smells like one.
I definitely understand what you’re saying, but there have to be people who find children attractive but don’t act on it so consent isn’t really the issue there, but we still have the problem of how society sees those people and the possibility of the mental anguish those people must feel. I can’t imagine what it must feel like to be “the worst human trash in the history of the world” while also not behaving in that way. :(
I guess it’s more of a “them” problem as they aren’t acting on their attractions, maybe society shouldn’t be involved in that one? I don’t know… It just bothers me when I see that kind of hatred when there’s no way 100% of pedophiles actually act on their attractions.
Quick reminder of the thread so far.
No definitely not shit posting lol sorry if it seemed that way.
I didn’t want to really reveal anything, but this is a personal thing as I know someone who is in this situation. And no I’m not reporting them, that’s not only a literal death sentence for them but I’ve known this person long enough to know they’d never hurt anyone. They opened up about seeing pictures when we were drunk a long time ago and so it bothers me when I see the hatred because I think of my friend so I’m just getting a feel for what people think.
Then this sounds like an actual mental health thing and not a dog whistle. I don’t actually have any answers. Just years of experience reading useless internet comments.
Seek a professional if you can. I don’t even know if you’re in a nation where just looking for help wouldn’t get you or your friend killed. Good luck.
Thanks! That’s kind of how I feel too, it’s a really difficult topic because of what was mentioned before as far as connecting mental health to attraction, but there definitely seems to be some forms of attraction that are problematic.
From what I remember at the time, I believe he said he can’t go get help because they have a duty to report him if he were to bring it up. Anyway, thanks for the time!
This is a textbook case of ideological reasoning.
Instead of reasoning that X is true or false based on evidence that it’s true or false, one reasons that X must be false because if it were true it might encourage thinking Y, where Y is unacceptable.
Literally the definition of ideologically-motivated reasoning.
I like that we’re getting into debate and philosophy in a shitpost.
There’s this idea that valuable discourse only belongs at universities and in lofty state office. I say it’s here in the shit that we’re shaping tomorrow’s culture.
I’m a civil engineer. My primary value to society is my ability to handle shit.
I’m classifing pedophilia as a mental illness yes but transexuality and homosexuality is of course not. When I stated pedophillia I meant the sole attraction to children alone not actions that’s immoral and a crime. I want pedophiles to be able to address this early on and be able to seek treatment.
Also, what does my comment have to do with nazism at all? I am lib-left. “Smells like one”? For suggesting pedophiles should get mental help? Forgive me but is this a serious accusation or a joke that went past my head entirely?
This is not at all a debate in libertarianism. Libertarians recognize the role of a limited small government to protect individual rights. Like please pull up one example of this debate going on in a libertarian space.
Libertarians don’t believe murder should be legal and crazy shit like that. Libertarians believe in a guaranteed freedoms like freedom of speech, economic liberalism and are often social progressives who believe in gay marriage and drug legalization.
The bill of rights was brought to you by libertarians.
Can be addressed with assassination politics aimed at slavers and child abusers.
We can solve [crime against humanity] by [commiting crime against humanity]
That’s literally just a government lol
But without the monopoly on killing slavers and child abusers.
Yeah, you gotta take some risks. There’s no magical fix to bad shit. We just do our best and try to do better.
You think it’s a crime against humanity to kill a slaver?
It is a crime against humanity to willingly take a life, no matter how vile the person
No it’s not.
Very nice of you to link that, I don’t see how this disproves my opinion, as murder is still mentioned on multiple occasions
Those mentions are of systemic state-run murder. That doesn’t make every murder a crime against humanity, especially vigilante justice against literal slavers.
“assassination” is the crime against humanity, although pretty sure it’s “only just” a war crime. Although when not carried out by a govt agent, since we’re talking a hypothetical libertarian society and solution, IDK if 8t can be called that.
Why do you believe that killing (or whatever we call it) a slaver is either a crime against humanity or a war crime?