I like the trams. I like the trees. I like the greenery in the city. I don’t like that the tram pathway looks like a field to play in from the perspective of a young child.
Many trams don’t actually drive that fast. Some googling suggests this is Helsinki. Their trams run at 14km/h. That’s easily slow enough to react to a kid running onto the track.
Also this seems to have roads on either side, so I don’t think there would be many children playing in that area.
From the perspective of the tram driver there are a lot of trees along the tram way. Those trees could make a blind spot for the driver if a kid was playing along the tracks.
My point is that why replace one danger cars and then write off the other dangers as irrelevant. With some effort I think we can get both dealt with. However, if this is Helsinki how has this actually performed? That can help guide risk assessment too.
If we cannot teach adults to drive the proper speed successfully, to not be impaired, to not play with their mobiles, and to pay attention what hope do we have for kids?
Kids aren’t gonna randomly start playing there. If you look around on the linked map, there are parks all over the place. It is much more likely for kids to play there, where it’s nice, than on some major road.
Google isn’t spitting out any results no matter how I search for it but I’m under the impression that kids in Finland go to school on their own basically starting with kindergarten. At least there are plenty of countries where they do, so kids are obviously capable of navigating public space safely and independently. I know I did. I crossed 3 main roads on the way to kindergarten.
I live in america and kids play in the streets all the time and cars are a serious danger. Most of our urban streets are smaller than this and the cars are going much faster. 14kph is less than 9mph, and the lowest speed limits in my area go is 25mph. When these trams are going slow enough to run along side, the danger of hitting someone that you didn’t see in time is FAR lower. Even if someone did manage to get hit by a tram at this speed (or slower because they would likely already be hitting the breaks) they are much less likely to be injured. I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you that they could both be dangerous but you are talking about the danger of trams vs cars as if they are equal. Most of the necessary safety measures are already in place (ie, the 14kph speed) and I am far less worried about kids running around in a world of trams than a world of cars.
That’s good! It doesn’t mean we have to ignore the bad things that can happen with the alternatives to worse options. Even at low speed there’s still a high chance of serious injury in a collision.
i’m not sure where you grew up and live, but as someone who grew up in a very large city (10m+), i can tell you that children aren’t stupid, if they grow up in an environment in which they’re given an appropriate amount of responsibility in the face of danger, while also explained the possibilities of danger and how to avoid it, they grow up to be pretty responsible, and certainly wouldn’t be endangered (or really bothered in any way) by something as trivial as grassy tram tracks
I don’t think they’ll have a chance of being hit by these trams, as they first have to cross three lanes of traffic either side of the trees (not pictured).
I like the trams. I like the trees. I like the greenery in the city. I don’t like that the tram pathway looks like a field to play in from the perspective of a young child.
Many trams don’t actually drive that fast. Some googling suggests this is Helsinki. Their trams run at 14km/h. That’s easily slow enough to react to a kid running onto the track.
Also this seems to have roads on either side, so I don’t think there would be many children playing in that area.
From the perspective of the tram driver there are a lot of trees along the tram way. Those trees could make a blind spot for the driver if a kid was playing along the tracks.
My point is that why replace one danger cars and then write off the other dangers as irrelevant. With some effort I think we can get both dealt with. However, if this is Helsinki how has this actually performed? That can help guide risk assessment too.
or you could just teach your children not to play on the tram tracks. the world is full of pointy edges. must we bubble wrap them all?
If we cannot teach adults to drive the proper speed successfully, to not be impaired, to not play with their mobiles, and to pay attention what hope do we have for kids?
I couldn’t locate this particular spot but it’s suggested to be in the city center. It might be this one: https://www.google.com/maps/@60.1690393,24.9398838,1100m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu
Kids aren’t gonna randomly start playing there. If you look around on the linked map, there are parks all over the place. It is much more likely for kids to play there, where it’s nice, than on some major road.
Google isn’t spitting out any results no matter how I search for it but I’m under the impression that kids in Finland go to school on their own basically starting with kindergarten. At least there are plenty of countries where they do, so kids are obviously capable of navigating public space safely and independently. I know I did. I crossed 3 main roads on the way to kindergarten.
Could this be from Mäkelänkatu?
I live in america and kids play in the streets all the time and cars are a serious danger. Most of our urban streets are smaller than this and the cars are going much faster. 14kph is less than 9mph, and the lowest speed limits in my area go is 25mph. When these trams are going slow enough to run along side, the danger of hitting someone that you didn’t see in time is FAR lower. Even if someone did manage to get hit by a tram at this speed (or slower because they would likely already be hitting the breaks) they are much less likely to be injured. I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you that they could both be dangerous but you are talking about the danger of trams vs cars as if they are equal. Most of the necessary safety measures are already in place (ie, the 14kph speed) and I am far less worried about kids running around in a world of trams than a world of cars.
there’s been like 3 deaths total from tram collisions in the last 200 years 💀
That’s good! It doesn’t mean we have to ignore the bad things that can happen with the alternatives to worse options. Even at low speed there’s still a high chance of serious injury in a collision.
i’m not sure where you grew up and live, but as someone who grew up in a very large city (10m+), i can tell you that children aren’t stupid, if they grow up in an environment in which they’re given an appropriate amount of responsibility in the face of danger, while also explained the possibilities of danger and how to avoid it, they grow up to be pretty responsible, and certainly wouldn’t be endangered (or really bothered in any way) by something as trivial as grassy tram tracks
It’s not a problem in Helsinki as there are plenty of green spaces for children to play in that aren’t the tramway.
I don’t think they’ll have a chance of being hit by these trams, as they first have to cross three lanes of traffic either side of the trees (not pictured).
Would be one hell of a game of Crossy Road.
The stroad this replacee is far worse, and often the only place for kids to play, and it makes space for actual parks.