If doing certain things under proton was less of a pain in the ass, I’d agree with you. But proton still isn’t simple for some usecases.
EDIT: the people downvoting me very likely have only surface level experience with Proton. Sorry, it isn’t perfect. It’s based on WINE, which also isn’t perfect. It’s making a lot of progress and is damn close but it isn’t perfect.
I personally would rather not play those games than worsen the general experience by installing Windows. Other people feel differently and that’s okay.
Yeah, Mod Organizer 2 beta is still broken due to a qt6 dependency issue with WINE. Vortex Mod Manager still has issues and is a pain to even install. Certain mods for games require manually renaming DLL files and figuring out which ones to rename and what the name should be. You can’t simply treat it like Windows, which means for some usecases it’ll be far more complex to handle.
If doing certain things under proton was less of a pain in the ass, I’d agree with you. But proton still isn’t simple for some usecases.
While true for those “some usecases”, Proton is the simplest solution for most use cases, though. Not because Proton is perfect but because it works best for what the Deck is designed as.
Proton is literally just the windows compatibility layer and doesn’t “work best for what the Deck is designed as”. Feel free to say that about SteamOS, sure. But Proton is literally just a side effect of most software not targeting Linux.
Proton is literally just the windows compatibility layer and doesn’t “work best for what the Deck is designed as”.
It’s not possible to make a Steam Deck equivalent product with Windows, therefore there is no alternative to Proton for making a equally compelling product.
Feel free to say that about SteamOS, sure.
SteamOS is part of the product that is Steam Deck.
Your first statement is essentially factually incorrect, and your second statement is true but I’m not really sure exactly what you mean by it.
Look, all I was getting at with my point is some things don’t work right within Proton, and the solutions to make it do so are really annoying. I still like Proton, I still use Proton, I still prefer Linux (and steamOS).
That doesn’t change the fact that certain specific gaming usecases (like using a version of Mod Organizer 2 with Starfield support that isn’t outdated) are just simpler overall under Windows right now, and relatively painful to get working under Proton.
How is “you can’t make an equivalent product using Windows” subjective? My bad on that, I took it as a factual claim because that’s how I read that.
And don’t get me wrong, I’m really no Windows fangirl. I prefer Linux. (OpenSUSE Tumbleweed KDE always felt like home to me) I just think as an enthusiast and user of these products being honest about where they stand is important. And at least for a world where games and their associated tools are made for Windows first, there are still some valid edge cases where installing Windows on a Deck or any other handheld PC makes sense.
So, if we’re sharing opinions, let me get yours perhaps instead of just going at each other with snark? Why couldn’t Windows be used as the base for a handheld gaming device? I could definitely see an argument about the poor UI for handheld usage, but you can set it to boot right into the new gamepad UI which is essentially just steamOS’s game mode environment, which mostly solves that.
It’s definitely not as polished, and there are still some things that aren’t great (the software for using the gamepad itself, for example. It just isn’t as automatic as over in steamOS, which is one of my primary complaints. But that could be addressed by any OEM or Microsoft directly, if they chose to do it. Whether they would, or they’d get it done as well as what’s going on in steamOS is obviously another question.
How is “you can’t make an equivalent product using Windows” subjective?
You said first statement which I thought was the Proton one. It’s absolutely not possible to make a Steam Deck equivalent using Windows. It’s like using Steam Deck exclusively in Desktop Mode with at best another launcher on top.
SteamOS is just Linux with the desktop environment replaced.
You can boot Windows into an alternative shell.
Do you have any firsthand experience using windows that way? Because I’ve been setting up big screen controller focused HTPC frontends on Windows using that exact method for years.
If doing certain things under proton was less of a pain in the ass, I’d agree with you. But proton still isn’t simple for some usecases.
EDIT: the people downvoting me very likely have only surface level experience with Proton. Sorry, it isn’t perfect. It’s based on WINE, which also isn’t perfect. It’s making a lot of progress and is damn close but it isn’t perfect.
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I guess they are referring to playing some specific games or software which don’t work well on Linux even with proton.
That’s the great thing about the deck; You can use it for whatever you want.
I personally would rather not play those games than worsen the general experience by installing Windows. Other people feel differently and that’s okay.
Yeah, Mod Organizer 2 beta is still broken due to a qt6 dependency issue with WINE. Vortex Mod Manager still has issues and is a pain to even install. Certain mods for games require manually renaming DLL files and figuring out which ones to rename and what the name should be. You can’t simply treat it like Windows, which means for some usecases it’ll be far more complex to handle.
Mod Organizer 2 beta for Starfield still doesn’t work properly because of a qt6 error in WINE
You’ve got to rename .dlls nonstandard because the way they’re made breaks the WINE layer
But tell me again how it works perfectly? I’ve been using these tools since before the Steam Deck existed lol
Edit: Three weeks ago you were complaining about an issue with steamOS and external display resolution.
Tell me again how it’s all perfect?
While true for those “some usecases”, Proton is the simplest solution for most use cases, though. Not because Proton is perfect but because it works best for what the Deck is designed as.
Proton is literally just the windows compatibility layer and doesn’t “work best for what the Deck is designed as”. Feel free to say that about SteamOS, sure. But Proton is literally just a side effect of most software not targeting Linux.
It’s not possible to make a Steam Deck equivalent product with Windows, therefore there is no alternative to Proton for making a equally compelling product.
SteamOS is part of the product that is Steam Deck.
Your first statement is essentially factually incorrect, and your second statement is true but I’m not really sure exactly what you mean by it.
Look, all I was getting at with my point is some things don’t work right within Proton, and the solutions to make it do so are really annoying. I still like Proton, I still use Proton, I still prefer Linux (and steamOS).
That doesn’t change the fact that certain specific gaming usecases (like using a version of Mod Organizer 2 with Starfield support that isn’t outdated) are just simpler overall under Windows right now, and relatively painful to get working under Proton.
Edit: It’s a lot of little stuff, like this, that makes various tools crash, that are the most frustrating. I still really admire and regularly use the WINE/Proton projects, it’s just that certain workflows are really complicated or broken in that environment.
Factually? Oh, I see. I beg your forgiveness for thinking that was subjective.
How is “you can’t make an equivalent product using Windows” subjective? My bad on that, I took it as a factual claim because that’s how I read that.
And don’t get me wrong, I’m really no Windows fangirl. I prefer Linux. (OpenSUSE Tumbleweed KDE always felt like home to me) I just think as an enthusiast and user of these products being honest about where they stand is important. And at least for a world where games and their associated tools are made for Windows first, there are still some valid edge cases where installing Windows on a Deck or any other handheld PC makes sense.
So, if we’re sharing opinions, let me get yours perhaps instead of just going at each other with snark? Why couldn’t Windows be used as the base for a handheld gaming device? I could definitely see an argument about the poor UI for handheld usage, but you can set it to boot right into the new gamepad UI which is essentially just steamOS’s game mode environment, which mostly solves that.
It’s definitely not as polished, and there are still some things that aren’t great (the software for using the gamepad itself, for example. It just isn’t as automatic as over in steamOS, which is one of my primary complaints. But that could be addressed by any OEM or Microsoft directly, if they chose to do it. Whether they would, or they’d get it done as well as what’s going on in steamOS is obviously another question.
You said first statement which I thought was the Proton one. It’s absolutely not possible to make a Steam Deck equivalent using Windows. It’s like using Steam Deck exclusively in Desktop Mode with at best another launcher on top.
SteamOS is just Linux with the desktop environment replaced.
You can boot Windows into an alternative shell.
Do you have any firsthand experience using windows that way? Because I’ve been setting up big screen controller focused HTPC frontends on Windows using that exact method for years.