“Both parties are the same” is an obviously silly statement.
At the same time, “Vote for the man who says he can’t avoid building Trump’s wall, but can use executive power to sell weapons specifically to be used for genocide… Because the other guy is worse.” is not a great way to raise voter turnout.
Some of the people criticizing others in this thread have been organizing against genocide. Have been calling their representatives, protesting in the street, etc.
If that’s you; Great! My beef is not with you.
If not, and especially if you were telling people to vote for Biden in 2020 because we could “push him to the left”; Maybe work on getting Biden to stop funding genocide and generally push an agenda that will make people want to vote for him.
With current levels of partisanship, turnout is what makes the difference in elections.
Criticizing the very people you’re trying to get to vote is at best counter-productive.
Like it or not, if you’re campaigning for Biden then you’re an embassador for the Democratic party. People notice what you spend your energy on, and what you don’t. If you spend more time calling people on the left “stupid” than you do campaigning to end genocide? People will notice, and they will associate Biden supporters with hypocrites that don’t actually care about them or people like them.
Being a dick is easier than actually organizing; But it won’t achieve your stated goals.
what does it say about our political system that our choices are “bigot funding genocides abroad and is for racism and systemic injustice at home” and “guy who does the same thing but isn’t as outwardly rude about it”
It’s a horrible callus thing I’m fully aware, but I truly don’t currently give a fuck about the ongoing messed up aspects of US foreign policy and really only care about desperately trying to get our own country in order. I’m looking for the only realistically electable candidate that’s attempting to stop or at least slow the fascist takeover of our country. We aren’t in a good enough place right now to worry about anyone else.
It’s absolutely a horrible thing to say. And I’m right there with you. It’s a core belief of mine that everyone should have equitable opportunity and experiences no matter where they’re born in the world and with whatever characteristics. So I don’t say it lightly when I say I have to ignore foreign policy. Trump must lose at all costs.
It’s important though I think that we keep this in mind, how horrible the choice is. That’s what keeps us from losing our humanity when faced with binary inhumane decisions. I can only hope the blood on my hands will prevent kids today from having to do the same.
Black, brown, and indigous people in the United States generally look at Palestinians and see themselves.
If you openly say that you don’t care about the genocide of Palestinians then you are openly labeling yourself as someone that marginalized people in the U.S. cannot trust.
So anything you say to try to get those same marginalized people to vote for your preferred candidate is stained by association with you.
Marginalized people are ignored or actively thrown under the bus by Democrats for 3 out of every 4 years. Then their presidential candidate makes a bunch of promises that he never intends to keep; And doesn’t keep.
How much work have you done in the past 3 years to actively support and protect marginalized people in your community?
It’s hard for any argument you make to sway people who see you as someone that doesn’t genuinely care about them or people like them beyond their vote.
And I haven’t done a lot of work in the past 3 years to help marginalized people because I was too busy sorting out my mental health after a devastating depressive episode in early 2021. I was in a state medicaid plan through Obamacare, and that was only possible because red state voters approved a state medicaid expansion in a referendum.
Believe me when I say I’m not a trust fund socialist sipping mimosas at brunch.
I never said that I didn’t care about the Palestinians. I do. And one of the reasons I’m voting for Biden is because the other option would just kill more of them. I fully recognize however that this is a post hoc rationalization.
I recognize that in voting for Biden, I am putting my own well-being and my concern about domestic issues ahead of my support for Palestinians. I’m prioritizing it as lower than other issues. And that’s the horrible decision I choose to own, because I’m tired of worrying about my family’s safety and all the emboldened racists.
Will you tell me that it’s wrong for a minority person to seek safety and security for their family over support for a minority being genocides? That I should pick the morally pure choice and bring about a riskier situation for my family because of Trump?
I’ll say it right now – it is morally wrong. But it’s the choice I make. My care for my family and for other minorities across the US takes priority over a minority being genocided overseas. I want to end this comment on quotable and firm statement (hence the rambling) but frankly there is none. The world sucks.
I haven’t got any quarrel with you. I hope you and your family get some rest and enjoyment too.
I want to clarify that it’s not like I’m looking over my shoulder at every little thing, but every couple months there’s either national news or an incident close to home that reminds me the knuckle draggers are alive and well. A lot of my concern for my family’s well-being comes from if things get worse, which would happen under Trump. I’m privileged to be able to say that, because I know there’s Americans being actively targeted by conservatives. My first chemistry teacher is lesbian and has a family with kids. A teacher I knew but never had classes with had to leave the state because of increased transphobia and their trans child.
I just want to make it clear that me and my family are not actively suffering, I’m just worried (with good reason to be, I think). And I’m very empathetic for the people I know who are suffering right now. Does that make sense? I want to be able to help everyone, but my family and those I know come first, followed closely by LGBT and minority Americans.
Just to reiterate, I don’t have anything against you. I suspect we largely support the same things and have the same beliefs too. I just wanted to show you that I’m not in an ivory tower – I do understand what’s at stake. The situation in Gaza asks you to make impossible questions, and it’s unfair of me to judge people for what that decide is the answer. I’m still going to nudge them towards Biden, because I genuinely believe that is the most likely least bad outcome for everyone. But you’re right, I shouldn’t show contempt or distaste.
“Both parties are the same” is an obviously silly statement.
At the same time, “Vote for the man who says he can’t avoid building Trump’s wall, but can use executive power to sell weapons specifically to be used for genocide… Because the other guy is worse.” is not a great way to raise voter turnout.
Some of the people criticizing others in this thread have been organizing against genocide. Have been calling their representatives, protesting in the street, etc.
If that’s you; Great! My beef is not with you.
If not, and especially if you were telling people to vote for Biden in 2020 because we could “push him to the left”; Maybe work on getting Biden to stop funding genocide and generally push an agenda that will make people want to vote for him.
With current levels of partisanship, turnout is what makes the difference in elections.
Criticizing the very people you’re trying to get to vote is at best counter-productive.
Like it or not, if you’re campaigning for Biden then you’re an embassador for the Democratic party. People notice what you spend your energy on, and what you don’t. If you spend more time calling people on the left “stupid” than you do campaigning to end genocide? People will notice, and they will associate Biden supporters with hypocrites that don’t actually care about them or people like them.
Being a dick is easier than actually organizing; But it won’t achieve your stated goals.
couldn’t have said it better
what does it say about our political system that our choices are “bigot funding genocides abroad and is for racism and systemic injustice at home” and “guy who does the same thing but isn’t as outwardly rude about it”
It’s a horrible callus thing I’m fully aware, but I truly don’t currently give a fuck about the ongoing messed up aspects of US foreign policy and really only care about desperately trying to get our own country in order. I’m looking for the only realistically electable candidate that’s attempting to stop or at least slow the fascist takeover of our country. We aren’t in a good enough place right now to worry about anyone else.
It’s absolutely a horrible thing to say. And I’m right there with you. It’s a core belief of mine that everyone should have equitable opportunity and experiences no matter where they’re born in the world and with whatever characteristics. So I don’t say it lightly when I say I have to ignore foreign policy. Trump must lose at all costs.
It’s important though I think that we keep this in mind, how horrible the choice is. That’s what keeps us from losing our humanity when faced with binary inhumane decisions. I can only hope the blood on my hands will prevent kids today from having to do the same.
Black, brown, and indigous people in the United States generally look at Palestinians and see themselves.
If you openly say that you don’t care about the genocide of Palestinians then you are openly labeling yourself as someone that marginalized people in the U.S. cannot trust.
So anything you say to try to get those same marginalized people to vote for your preferred candidate is stained by association with you.
Marginalized people are ignored or actively thrown under the bus by Democrats for 3 out of every 4 years. Then their presidential candidate makes a bunch of promises that he never intends to keep; And doesn’t keep.
How much work have you done in the past 3 years to actively support and protect marginalized people in your community?
It’s hard for any argument you make to sway people who see you as someone that doesn’t genuinely care about them or people like them beyond their vote.
Is this a bad time to tell you that I’m brown?
And I haven’t done a lot of work in the past 3 years to help marginalized people because I was too busy sorting out my mental health after a devastating depressive episode in early 2021. I was in a state medicaid plan through Obamacare, and that was only possible because red state voters approved a state medicaid expansion in a referendum.
Believe me when I say I’m not a trust fund socialist sipping mimosas at brunch.
I never said that I didn’t care about the Palestinians. I do. And one of the reasons I’m voting for Biden is because the other option would just kill more of them. I fully recognize however that this is a post hoc rationalization.
I recognize that in voting for Biden, I am putting my own well-being and my concern about domestic issues ahead of my support for Palestinians. I’m prioritizing it as lower than other issues. And that’s the horrible decision I choose to own, because I’m tired of worrying about my family’s safety and all the emboldened racists.
Will you tell me that it’s wrong for a minority person to seek safety and security for their family over support for a minority being genocides? That I should pick the morally pure choice and bring about a riskier situation for my family because of Trump?
I’ll say it right now – it is morally wrong. But it’s the choice I make. My care for my family and for other minorities across the US takes priority over a minority being genocided overseas. I want to end this comment on quotable and firm statement (hence the rambling) but frankly there is none. The world sucks.
Yeah, I have no beef with you either.
It sounds like you aren’t really trying to sway others to vote for Biden, and if you are I’m guessing you aren’t doing so by insulting them.
I’m sorry that there’s so much oppression and that you are forced to weigh your and your famy’s wellbeing / lives over those of Palestinians.
It’s cruel, and frankly fucked up, and I have solidarity with you and everyone else suffering under oppression and just trying to make it through.
I hope you’re able to have some sort of rest / enjoyment from this Christmas break. I hope you and your family the best.
I haven’t got any quarrel with you. I hope you and your family get some rest and enjoyment too.
I want to clarify that it’s not like I’m looking over my shoulder at every little thing, but every couple months there’s either national news or an incident close to home that reminds me the knuckle draggers are alive and well. A lot of my concern for my family’s well-being comes from if things get worse, which would happen under Trump. I’m privileged to be able to say that, because I know there’s Americans being actively targeted by conservatives. My first chemistry teacher is lesbian and has a family with kids. A teacher I knew but never had classes with had to leave the state because of increased transphobia and their trans child.
I just want to make it clear that me and my family are not actively suffering, I’m just worried (with good reason to be, I think). And I’m very empathetic for the people I know who are suffering right now. Does that make sense? I want to be able to help everyone, but my family and those I know come first, followed closely by LGBT and minority Americans.
Just to reiterate, I don’t have anything against you. I suspect we largely support the same things and have the same beliefs too. I just wanted to show you that I’m not in an ivory tower – I do understand what’s at stake. The situation in Gaza asks you to make impossible questions, and it’s unfair of me to judge people for what that decide is the answer. I’m still going to nudge them towards Biden, because I genuinely believe that is the most likely least bad outcome for everyone. But you’re right, I shouldn’t show contempt or distaste.