The solution is to find a diplomatic solution that works for both sides. Anybody who can’t get that through their skull is actively driving us towards extinction.
The diplomacy amounted to Russia wanting to reclaim the soviet sphere of influence or Ukraine gets it. You know full well there wasn’t any actual diplomatic solution for Putin.
Yes, Russia has a sphere of influence just like US has and every other major power. I know full well that if Ukraine stayed neutral then Russia would not have invaded it. Every single person who knows anything on the subject agrees regarding this. Finland throwing away its neutrality was the height of idiocy.
Ukraine has been neutral since the Budapest memorandum. Finland joined a nuclear military alliance in response to its neighbor invading a neutral country.
Ukraine has not been neutral since the coup in 2014, and has been actively trying to join NATO. Meanwhile, Finland has been effectively part of NATO for a long time now. The fact that they officially joined isn’t really changing anything in practical terms.
Implementing Minsk agreements that Ukraine and the west agreed to and Ukraine staying neutral would’ve been pretty easy. But Ukraine regime and its western sponsors refused to. As the saying goes, it takes two to tango.
Russia invaded them, that’s all it takes for it to be 100% Russia’s fault. Ukraine never invaded Russia. NATO never invaded Russia. The EU never invaded Russia. Even Japan is staying out of Russia, despite openly contesting lands.
I’m stating a simple fact that the framing being used is infantile because it completely ignores the actions on the part of the west that led to this conflict. If I’m arguing with people who aren’t able to comprehend this, then nothing of value was lost.
Are you suggesting that western democratic countries shouldn’t help other people that would like to be free from a dictator?
Russia annexed Crimea
Russia invaded Ukraine
These are facts, no western country annexed anything or invaded anyone. Not to say the west are innocent, the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan are shameful things that should never have happened.
US annexed part of Cuba and runs a torture camp there. US occupies a chunk of Syria, US invaded Hawaii and eradicated most of the native population. Need I go on?
And given that China is more democratic than US, perhaps China really should help American people to liberate themselves from the oppressive regime they live under.
But Putin isn’t interested to find a diplomatic solution, he have his own plans. He will maybe interested in a diplomatic solution if he got more under pressure .But from the past he learned he can do what he want no buddy try stop him. So someone have show his limits like a little child have to learn it. How you can make politic with a guy you can’t trust ? You need some security. Everybody want to find diplomatic solution but you say now to the Ukraines hey common what is wrong with you just find a diplomatic solution with super power there not interested in diplomatic solution and there just reaped and killed you wife and children. Now is time to show unity and strength and i hope Russia is than interested in a diplomatic solution. My way was i tried to inform people on Russia Social Networks that the west are not Nazi peoples. But was also very scary to see if you now playing video games like Insurgency what also a lot of Russia people, there using now west people as a insult.
This is a false statement. Putin has tried to find a diplomatic solution for over 8 years. The west refused to do diplomacy during this whole time. NATO has expanded for the past 30 years despite promises not to move east. NATO has continuously destroyed countries and continued to surround Russia. Countless western experts warned that this will ultimately lead to a conflict. Politics isn’t about trust. It’s about understanding your interests and the interests of others. It’s about recognizing red lines, and creating conditions where conflict can be avoided.
Russia never threatened Ukraine until the west ran a coup there, and put in a regime there with ambitions to absorb it into NATO. Finland and Sweden have never been threatened by Russia, until they expressed ambitions to join NATO. It’s as if NATO expansion has been the key destabilizing factor here all along as everyone who has a modicum of understanding of the subject has been saying.
The escalation created the current crisis and now you’re claiming that the solution is more escalation. You’re absolutely insane and people like you will be the end of us all.
No, this is than a misunderstanding im just for do something and don’t looking away like we did this the last years. But to be a democratic regime this decision was coming from the Ukraine folk otherwise there would like it to be a part of Russia again. Of course the NATO did mistakes the last years but this is still not acceptable what Russia/Putin is doing.
NATO is currently fuelling the conflict and fighting Russia in a proxy war at great cost to Ukraine. This isn’t something that happened in the past, NATO is playing a direct role in the atrocities today. Of course, this doesn’t justify what Russia is doing, but it takes two to tango. My original point is that the west chose to escalate towards conflict instead of pursuing diplomacy. Now there is a war in Europe and millions of people are suffering. Yet, the west continues to fuel the fire bringing us to the brink of global annihilation.
I believe they threw their president out because he stopped the EU progress they had made and had nothing to do with NATO. NATO came formally in to the picture in 2019 once the threat from Russia had mounted.
US officials, unhappy with the scuttled EU deal, saw a similar chance in the Maidan protests.
,
It’s an overstatement to say, as some critics have charged, that Washington orchestrated the Maidan uprising. But there’s no doubt US officials backed and exploited it for their own ends.
Your source states very clearly that the US did not orchestrate the Maidan protests, and that its involvement was due to the aborted EU-deal.
Nothing in there about the Maidan government wanting to join NATO, aside from one reference to Putin’s paranoia about it :
After Putin moved to secure the Crimean naval base from NATO control
Indeed, the article referenced in this sentence says:
“Our decision on Crimea was partly due to … considerations that if we do nothing, then at some point, guided by the same principles, NATO will drag Ukraine in and they will say: ‘It doesn’t have anything to do with you.’”
So, according to your source, Crimea was not annexed in reaction to Ukraine giving up its neutrality, but in prevision of it.
The solution is to find a diplomatic solution that works for both sides. Anybody who can’t get that through their skull is actively driving us towards extinction.
The diplomacy amounted to Russia wanting to reclaim the soviet sphere of influence or Ukraine gets it. You know full well there wasn’t any actual diplomatic solution for Putin.
Yes, Russia has a sphere of influence just like US has and every other major power. I know full well that if Ukraine stayed neutral then Russia would not have invaded it. Every single person who knows anything on the subject agrees regarding this. Finland throwing away its neutrality was the height of idiocy.
Ukraine has been neutral since the Budapest memorandum. Finland joined a nuclear military alliance in response to its neighbor invading a neutral country.
Ukraine has not been neutral since the coup in 2014, and has been actively trying to join NATO. Meanwhile, Finland has been effectively part of NATO for a long time now. The fact that they officially joined isn’t really changing anything in practical terms.
Should be the easiest compromise in the world, that Ukraine is left alone and Russia is left alone. But Russia refuses.
Implementing Minsk agreements that Ukraine and the west agreed to and Ukraine staying neutral would’ve been pretty easy. But Ukraine regime and its western sponsors refused to. As the saying goes, it takes two to tango.
Russia invaded them, that’s all it takes for it to be 100% Russia’s fault. Ukraine never invaded Russia. NATO never invaded Russia. The EU never invaded Russia. Even Japan is staying out of Russia, despite openly contesting lands.
You have an infantile understanding of the world.
You’ve lost the argument when you resort to insults.
I’m stating a simple fact that the framing being used is infantile because it completely ignores the actions on the part of the west that led to this conflict. If I’m arguing with people who aren’t able to comprehend this, then nothing of value was lost.
Are you suggesting that western democratic countries shouldn’t help other people that would like to be free from a dictator?
Russia annexed Crimea
Russia invaded Ukraine
These are facts, no western country annexed anything or invaded anyone. Not to say the west are innocent, the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan are shameful things that should never have happened.
US annexed part of Cuba and runs a torture camp there. US occupies a chunk of Syria, US invaded Hawaii and eradicated most of the native population. Need I go on?
And given that China is more democratic than US, perhaps China really should help American people to liberate themselves from the oppressive regime they live under.
But Putin isn’t interested to find a diplomatic solution, he have his own plans. He will maybe interested in a diplomatic solution if he got more under pressure .But from the past he learned he can do what he want no buddy try stop him. So someone have show his limits like a little child have to learn it. How you can make politic with a guy you can’t trust ? You need some security. Everybody want to find diplomatic solution but you say now to the Ukraines hey common what is wrong with you just find a diplomatic solution with super power there not interested in diplomatic solution and there just reaped and killed you wife and children. Now is time to show unity and strength and i hope Russia is than interested in a diplomatic solution. My way was i tried to inform people on Russia Social Networks that the west are not Nazi peoples. But was also very scary to see if you now playing video games like Insurgency what also a lot of Russia people, there using now west people as a insult.
This is a false statement. Putin has tried to find a diplomatic solution for over 8 years. The west refused to do diplomacy during this whole time. NATO has expanded for the past 30 years despite promises not to move east. NATO has continuously destroyed countries and continued to surround Russia. Countless western experts warned that this will ultimately lead to a conflict. Politics isn’t about trust. It’s about understanding your interests and the interests of others. It’s about recognizing red lines, and creating conditions where conflict can be avoided.
Russia never threatened Ukraine until the west ran a coup there, and put in a regime there with ambitions to absorb it into NATO. Finland and Sweden have never been threatened by Russia, until they expressed ambitions to join NATO. It’s as if NATO expansion has been the key destabilizing factor here all along as everyone who has a modicum of understanding of the subject has been saying.
The escalation created the current crisis and now you’re claiming that the solution is more escalation. You’re absolutely insane and people like you will be the end of us all.
No, this is than a misunderstanding im just for do something and don’t looking away like we did this the last years. But to be a democratic regime this decision was coming from the Ukraine folk otherwise there would like it to be a part of Russia again. Of course the NATO did mistakes the last years but this is still not acceptable what Russia/Putin is doing.
NATO is currently fuelling the conflict and fighting Russia in a proxy war at great cost to Ukraine. This isn’t something that happened in the past, NATO is playing a direct role in the atrocities today. Of course, this doesn’t justify what Russia is doing, but it takes two to tango. My original point is that the west chose to escalate towards conflict instead of pursuing diplomacy. Now there is a war in Europe and millions of people are suffering. Yet, the west continues to fuel the fire bringing us to the brink of global annihilation.
I believe they threw their president out because he stopped the EU progress they had made and had nothing to do with NATO. NATO came formally in to the picture in 2019 once the threat from Russia had mounted.
I highly recommend educating yourself on the subject before opining. Lots has been written over the years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan on the first chapter.
Oh you mean this Euromaidan? https://jacobinmag.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea
,
Your source states very clearly that the US did not orchestrate the Maidan protests, and that its involvement was due to the aborted EU-deal.
Nothing in there about the Maidan government wanting to join NATO, aside from one reference to Putin’s paranoia about it :
Indeed, the article referenced in this sentence says:
So, according to your source, Crimea was not annexed in reaction to Ukraine giving up its neutrality, but in prevision of it.
Nuland is literally on tape selecting the government after the coup, but you do you bud.
There was never any such promise.
you are a liar https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/newly-declassified-documents-gorbachev-told-nato-wouldnt-23629
Promises between countries are made with treaties, not words traded over breakfast.
A promise was made, and later broken. You claimed that no such promise was made which was a lie.