Yeah, that one’s 3 sentences. My bad. I’ve read it like 15 times. I don’t think I understand your reasoning as to how I’m lying yet. You don’t know that I’m not a bot and you don’t want to talk with me. Fine. But you’re saying that I lied, when it appears you didn’t read what I wrote.
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Cake day: February 4th, 2026
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None of your comments have been longer than 2 sentences. The one you left replying to my long one explaining why I don’t think it makes sense to call China authoritarian unless you also apply that label to Europe suggested that you didn’t read my comment, yet you said that I am posting ignorance and lies. I am trying to understand why you think that I wrote lies and ignorant things without reading my comment.
The ability to preternaturally know when someone is lying to me without even hearing what they say sounds like a really cool superpower and if I could learn how you do that, it’d be great.
Okay, so you read my comment. Presumably that means you think I lied somewhere in that comment. What did I say that was incorrect?
Ok so you don’t even read the comments of the people who reply to you but you know enough that you can determine this person isn’t Chinese? Just because? You can literally check their profile and their profile on Hexbear, @QinShiHuangsShlong@hexbear.net
How is it fair to anyone reading your comments that you spend 20 seconds writing them (evidently that means you didn’t read my response)? How’s that fair to me? That’s really disrespectful.
I’ve interacted with 5 - 7 Chinese users over Lemmy recently ish. Haven’t been, but one of my close friends went to Hong Kong pretty recently and enjoyed their time.
Okay, I spent like 10 minutes searching my mind trying to fully understand where you’re coming from and meeting you halfway by listing things I don’t even believe to be true about China. If you can’t engage with people who disagree with you under those circumstances, then what level of engagement did you expect?
Can you enlighten us as to how China is authoritarian in a way that Europe isn’t? Because as far as I can tell, even if literally every single thing China is accused of by anyone is true, this is what their major crimes amount to:
- Killing 10,000 protesters in Tiananmen Square
- Imprisoning 1M Uighurs in Xinjiang
- Sterilizing, abusing, and killing some number of Uighurs in Xinjiang, I’ve never seen numbers accompanying this claim
- Suppressing Tibetan religious identity
- Lack of queer rights
- Not respecting Taiwan’s sovereignty
- Suppressing political speech that goes against the government
- General religious persecution of several religious minorities other than those mentioned above; Falun Gong, Christians, other Muslims, etc
- Aggression toward their neighbors like India and the Philippines
- Support of Russia during their invasion of Ukraine
- Support of Myanmar during the Rohingya genocide
Let me know if I missed any.
Meanwhile, (mainly Western) Europe definitely has done the following in the past 50 years:
- Funded and supported Israel’s genocide in Gaza, killing anywhere from 50,000 people per the Health Ministry to 500,000 per Donald Trump
- Mostly refused to recognize a Palestinian state until quite recently
- Exploited peripheral European states economically
- Continued to hold assets belonging to former colonies in the Global South
- Collaborated with the US to destroy the USSR and strip it for parts, causing one of the largest peace-time drop in life expectancy in history, and unleashing rampant economic and sexual exploitation
- Allow thousands of immigrants to die in the Mediterranean to prevent them from reaching the continent.
- Joined the US invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan
- Joined NATO actions to destroy the Libyan government, leaving the country in a state of utter chaos and making it one of the only places on earth with open air slave markets
- NATO actions against Yugoslavia and Serbia (granted, to intervene in a genocide, but in a way that was not done to intervene in the Rwandan genocide; this suggests the intervention was primarily motivated by an extractive, imperialist interest)
- Islamophobia; Hijab bans, rampant hate speech, racially stratified economies.
- Backsliding queer rights in some countries, total lack in others.
I think there’s probably more I could go into, but I think that’s at least enough to make my case. If you want to believe China is authoritarian because you believe every point in the upper half is true, then I won’t stop you. But you’re on some craaaazy wypipo logic if you think the points in the bottom don’t mean that the same label ought to be applied to Europe.
I also agree with NATO needing to be dismantled, I dont agree with you that Russia is doing that. Look at trump and Putin, the invasion of Ukraine is not fighting against america or the NATO, its imperial landgrabing a non NATO state.
Objectively, NATO is the only reason Ukraine is still standing. No NATO = no war, Ukraine wouldn’t even have had the 2014 coup if it wasn’t for NATO.
And even if Putin would fight the NATO directly, I dont think this will benefit our class, we are the ones dying in the wars, hunger in the famines and getting arrested for fighting for solidarity amongst the international working class, a true change cannot come from a tyrann winning over another tyrann, it need to be a struggle by the people against the oppressors
Struggle against oppressors often does take the form of great tyranny and violence. That’s just how struggle works. If NATO is destroyed NATO is destroyed, the moral character of the people who do it don’t impact the material reality. Is any part of what you’re saying here actually a true thing that can be verified through study of history, or are they just moral platitudes that sound nice?
If you dont condemn an imperialistic country invading its small neighbour, you fight for the oppressor. War is never good for the working class, if you justify people dying in imperialistic wars, you are a class enemie in my eyes.
I gave my thoughts on the matter of civilian deaths in the war in Ukraine. My contention is that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine weakens NATO; I could just as easily say that your refusal to fight NATO makes you a class enemy, and the critical difference is that my position can be justified by observing the ways that NATO is involved in really oppressing the world; meanwhile your disagreement with me is based in moral categories.
About China:
What your friends told you, plainly speaking, is just incorrect. You definitely can criticize the Chinese government publicly and privately. You can protest, the protests against the pandemic restrictions are the reason they don’t do zero COVID in China anymore. There’s active Hexbear users from China who do criticize the country’s policies and are sometimes a lot more critical than the rest of us. Seriously, check out @xiaohongshu@hexbear.net’s posting history. You can hop on Chinese social media like RedNote to see what people are saying; there will be a lot of positive things but negative things too.
On the issue of surveillance, I think surveillance and privacy is basically just dead in the water except for enthusiasts at this point. It’s all screwed, worldwide, it’s just a situation that’s completely beyond repair. Every country that has wide internet access has mass surveillance and the whole world is a police state. Bad situation all around. I’m not gonna try to tell you that it’s better in China than in some other countries because that’s just not good consolation, lol. But if you think that China is a country that has more mass surveillance than the rest of the world, that is mistaken.
They don’t control the flow of information, though. That part is wrong. Talk with Chinese people, I encourage you. They aren’t living in some kind of secluded little bubble, they know what’s going on around the world. My honest opinion is that sometimes they have overly naive takes about what it’s like to live in the West, like they don’t know how bad it is over here in a lot of cases. But they are broadly pretty well informed.
A state where the working class is truely ruling needs a free working class who can freely from their opinion. This can’t be done in a surveillance state.
I take specific issue with this argument. I mean, if you put some stress on the word “truly” then I don’t disagree. It’s a bit of a purity obsessed argument, but not strictly false. But if you really think that the condition of being surveilled is itself reason to forget about the tremendous historical progress China has achieved for their people, even though that surveillance and all other forms of state repression are things that Chinese communists have been aware of as necessary parts of state-building, then I think you are more concerned with creating a utopia than real emancipation.
Also also: being able to vote doesn’t make a country socialist or “not capitalistic”, if it would america would fall into this category as well.
I agree, what I meant is that China has a democratic state and that democratic state’s partial ownership of the means of production makes China a socialist country. Both parts are necessary. State ownership without any form of democracy can look like Saudi Arabia. Liberal democracy with a capitalist economy is, at best, social democracy like the Nordic countries.
And yet, what can Israel do without the material support of the country that makes its domestic weapons production capabilities possible? What can Israel do without the country that supplies its Iron Dome system? What can Israel do without CENTCOM? Without the power of the US dollar being maintained? Without Europe being greased up to act as one imperialist unit together with the US? Without US control of oil trade? Without US rigging of international institutions?
Can one meaningfully ever “control” someone that has that much leverage over them?
You’re flattering yourself if you think the politicians of the US need to be blackmailed to carry out the material interest of the capitalist ruling class. They won’t pay attention to you even if they stop cheating on you with Israel, their main girl is capital.
But since we are on the topic of war: who is supplying russia with the drones and fiber optics they use to invade Ukraine? Isnt that China? And isn’t xi giving Putin the same political backing?
This isn’t comparable to genocide for several reasons. I mean, for starters, who’s accusing Russia of genocide? I know that they’ve committed various war crimes and have killed thousands of civilians in their invasion, but neither of those suffice for the war to be considered a genocide. There has to be intent from the Russian side to exterminate the Ukrainian population in a generalized manner.
I’d also just say that with the various contradictions in place in the global stage, it is apparent to me that the only way for capitalism and fascism to be done away with is for every organ of USAmerican imperial hegemony to be dismantled. If the hegemony of the US imperialist ruling class is not dismantled, if the organs of that hegemony remain in place, then the earth is done for because of climate change; if that’s not enough, there will also continue to be genocides like the one in Gaza wherever the white supremacist states can concentrate populations of climate refugees. There will be unprecedented famines and natural disasters. To be honest, a lot of these things are already all but guaranteed to happen with the amounts of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere.
With that in mind, knowing what’s at stake, and knowing that NATO is one of the organs of US imperialist hegemony, I can’t in good faith consider that there’s a moral equivalence between the US utilizing Israel as a forward operating base, a tip of the spear, into the heart of the oppressed nations and a testing ground for the extermination technologies of the near future versus China giving Russia military aid to prevent their massive northern neighbor from collapsing. Furthermore, since I am of a mind that thinks that NATO cannot continue to exist for anything resembling a viable future to be possible, Russia is doing my work for me by exhausting NATO military supplies. Every drone, missile, bullet, and tank burned up by Ukraine is a NATO resource that will not be used against someone in the Global South in the near future. Every one of them that Russia destroys is one that anti-imperialist forces would have to destroy in another circumstance, and as valiant as groups like Ansarallah have been in their resistance, they don’t have the strength Russia has. I’m not going to condemn that.
I will condemn their war crimes, what has happened to the residential areas, hospitals, and even schools bombed by Russia is horrifying; but I won’t condemn the war in general, it would be hypocritical.
To your final point, you don’t understand what capitalism is if you think that Europe and the United States are a pole that is “just as capitalistic” as Russia and China. Like, dude, China is a massive net exporter country with a state run, centrally planned economy. Their government is fully democratic[1] and the portion of their economy that is still in the hands of private owners is set to shrink in every successive 5 year plan. That’s not capitalism. Russia is a different story, they are capitalist and have a very reactionary government, but to say they’re “just as capitalistic” as the West is a criticism that reveals a lot of ignorance. The West has such a large concentration of capital that they were the vanguard of the first, second, and third waves of capitalist imperialism. First in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, privately led by the finance capitalists seeking to extract more resources abroad as rates of profit fell at home.[2] [3] This is what led to and was epitomized by the world anti-fascist struggle, or WW2. That led to a period of US domination of world markets. Then in the 1970s came the state-led form of imperialism, carried out primarily by the United States’ unbalanced deficit spending.[4] Lastly, now we are in a kind of third wave that is still definitely dominated by the US as the center of world finance capital. Russia has always been a secondary character in each of these phases, even the SSR.
Their source for the genocide claim is this article that immediately cites Adrian Zenz. Do you have a source that can corroborate the genocide claim that doesn’t rely on Adrian Zenz? I don’t think he’s a good faith scholar.
Thank you for the source. I’ll take a look at some of their references.
Yeah, kind of, but under a capitalist system where workers can’t reap the benefits of automation and much labor is still performed in the imperial periphery it is negative.
It is a pretty bad deal for Western workers that our economies have deindustrialized. But that’s not China’s fault, that’s our ruling classes’ fault.
I’m not a huge Star Wars guy. Can you refresh my memory as to when Luke went to the Ewoks’ planet, enslaved them, and chopped off their hands when they weren’t being productive enough in the rubber plantations? Because if I’m following the meme here right, Belgium would be Luke, but the guy that cuts off people’s hands is Darth Vader. Am I missing something?
Europe provided something like 30% of the foreign weapons used to commit the genocide in Gaza. How many did China provide?
Can you provide a source for that claim?
If these things are so easily verified, why must we take your word for it? Why can’t you just show us the evidence that you’re correct and what we’re saying isn’t true?