Exactly what happened here

User 1: It’s almost as if Chinese Imperialism, genocide and ethnic cleansing is still bad even if the West built its powerbase on Imperialism.

User 2: How many colonies does China have? How many countries has it invaded? How many wars has waged?

Fascists like you and followers of the capitalist death cult can only say this: Tibet, because they drove the feudal lords and dalai lama paedophiles; Taiwan, because the bourgeois dictatorship claimed that land as theirs, as if it isn’t historically all one China, a similar story with Malvinas, I guess you also think they belong to the British; Hong Kong, which was a British colony but for some twisted reason you think they should be it’s own thing, because again it historically has not belong to China; the Uyghur thing, which even Western sources deny and/or doubt of its veracity and which was propelled by a right-wing organisation pro US imperialism; and delirious ideas about China being “imperialist” in Africa or South America because it trades with them and builds infrastructure, instead of providing bogus “financial aids” which then end up in the hands of US puppets like you did in Argentina with IMF funds. So basically all of the “imperialism” you claim is China trying to recover its historical territories lost in the process of the proletarian revolution.

Meanwhile, I don’t see any of the likes of you denouncing the plethora of colonies Europe and the US has been having and continue having for centuries. Why are you no so openly in favour of a Hawai’ian independence movement but you are so fervently obsessed with China? I know why, because you have fascists freudian slips and you can’t even realise about it yourself, since you live surrounded by people who justify themselves, and you have never interacted with a person from the Global South that’s not a fascist. By the way, the things I’m telling you, this is not “tankie” stuff, I have Peronists friends, Trotskyists friends, and all over the spectrum in Argentina, and they all know what you people say is complete and utter disgusting, the thought that everyone agrees with this kind of thought is something only maintained in first world imperialist countries. Don’t fool yourself.

User 2: I’m not talking with someone who defends genocide

User 3: Yeah, don’t bother. Tankies are red fascists.

User 2: Yup, tankies are fascists under a new name.

Zenz is definitely homophobic and racist but do you have a source for holocaust denial?

Okay found out what Lemmy is and I hate it. Like wtf is this.

Hey, tankies, decent countries don’t have to violently suppress their populations and then lie about it. Oh, and socialism is worker ownership of the means of production, not whatever the fuck they’re doing in China. (inb4 people assuming I must support the US since I hate China)

The socialism understander has logged on. Wouldn’t even know what to reply to this since it’s literally nothing.

No clue what Lemmy is but I’ll try to get what you’re asking for.

I made a carrd on the Uyghur genocide available [here]. It has the U.S. Army colonel clip you talked ab.

For Tiananmen Square, [this] is a Hong Kong news report of the evacuation. You have the CIA cable, that’s a good source. Here’s a general article.

• China in 1989 for one man vs. the U.S. in 2020 for a whole crowd (good propaganda video, this is all that a mention of the 6/4 incident as an indictment against China seriously warrants)
• Thread covering testimony from protest leaders

Hou Dejian, a Taiwanese national and one of the leaders of the Tiananmen protests, saying he was in the square all night and saw no one killed

• Thread covering images of PLA troop immolation
• a NYT questioning of the atrocity account
• There Was No “Tiananmen Square Massacre” - CBS News

*The CBS testimony says that the CPC denies the casualties in outer areas. This is incorrect, the mayor of Beijing had stated in a public report that around 200 people died including PLA soldiers.

“According to the information we have so far gathered, more than 3,000 civilians were wounded and over 200, including 36 college students, died during the riot.” (p. 47).

Xitong, Chen. Report on Checking the Turmoil and Quelling the Counter-Revolutionary Rebellion. New Star Publishers, 1989.

Mentions in State-Owned Media In China [refuting the “censor” narrative; all accessed through Baidu]:

China.org.cn: China Rejects US Statement on 6-4 Incident

China Daily: Tiananmen Massacre a Myth

China Daily: What’s Wrong With Our Liberal Studies Courses?

CPC News: Centennial Events of the Communist Party of China

People’s Daily: Memorabilia of the Communist Party of China 1989

Publications the year of the event (first is relatively easy to find, second isn’t):

Xitong, Chen. Report on Checking the Turmoil and Quelling the Counter-Revolutionary Rebellion. Beijing: New Star Publishers, 1989.

The Beijing Riot: A Photo Record. Beijing: New Star Publishers, 1989.

Umm guys the proletariat kinda bankrolls the bourgeoisie so it’s really their fault.

I swear to god if they bring up criminal record or some other bullshit that doesn’t pertain to this again I will go to the NYT headquarters and ********************************************************. The murderer didn’t know he WAS (he got off the list before the murder jesus christ) on the “poor people who deserve to die” list. The people on the train said Neely never physically harmed or threatened to physically harm anyone, end of story.

“We’re not justifying the murder” YES YOU ARE, THE FOCUS SHOULD NOT BE ON THIS

I’d recommend reading Ch. 3 of Foundations of Leninism for a summation of this. Also, while some Trotskyists frame SIOC as a vulgar development of Stalin, Lenin (who both Trotskyists and MLs would like to claim as their own) actually spoke on this matter on several occasions.

For the GDR, see:

1. “What You Should Know About the Wall”
2. “The Berlin Wall: Another Cold War Myth” by William Blum (author of Killing Hope)

For the Soviet Union, this is a thing you hear about many countries (Cuba and the DPRK for example). Since it’s not accompanied by any data, you can simply say that people also immigrated to the USSR (or wherever else). This is equally valid. They don’t know how many people immigrated to and from the Soviet Union, but they have an image cultivated by years of propaganda: so ask them. They’ll be forced to tell you that they don’t know. Then you will be done with it.

I agree that it would obviously be preferable to use prestigious sources with good web design and well-known authors. Unfortunately my resources are limited. Feel free to suggest another article and I’ll consider adding it (perhaps I could make a “mainstream news” section?).

Grayzone is definitely very iffy but these specific posts are good. I verified each of the blog posts as well. The issue isn’t “trust”, if I cited a blog as saying something and they didn’t prove their point then it would be a bad citation. The only time I cited blog posts was for analysis of establishment news, and critique them if you like but don’t just go “they’re not valid news sources”, because that isn’t the issue and nothing is claimed as a revelation or without proof. If the issue is with sharing this to other people, then you should first establish what the difference is between news and analysis.

Note: That AP article is far too entrenched in propaganda to be shared as a source. You’d have much more trouble with optics in that case.

AND NOTHING ABOUT HOW THE DIVISION WASN’T EVEN VOTED ON, THE US JUST PUT IT SOMEWHAT IN THE MIDDLE WITH SEOUL IN THEIR TERRITORY, SO HOW COULD THE NORTH “INVADE” THE SOUTH???