• Norgur
    link
    fedilink
    1286 months ago

    “Extra Level”? It’s more about taking the burden off the women for me. Why do they, and only they, always have to mess up their bodies?

    • @Saff@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      776 months ago

      Obviously it depends on the relationship and how risk averse you both are. But yeah why not both? Seems like a pretty good way to be really sure!

      • FlashMobOfOne
        link
        fedilink
        English
        306 months ago

        Exactly.

        Condoms would be 99% effective if they could be made idiot-proof.

        • @kofe@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          186 months ago

          Sucks you’re being down voted, I mean maybe saying “idiot-proof” isn’t nice but comprehensive sex ed should cover helping those with a noodle understand how to find ones that fit comfortably and what main causes there are for breakage n whatnot. I’m currently having that discussion with my sex buddy, and I can’t tell you the amount of times I’ve had people try to coerce me into letting them go raw dog in the past. Like keep in mind I’m in a state that has not only criminalized abortion but is defunding all planned parenthoods now.

          • FlashMobOfOne
            link
            fedilink
            English
            26 months ago

            Like keep in mind I’m in a state that has not only criminalized abortion but is defunding all planned parenthoods now.

            Bummer.

            2/3 of the states will follow in another year. That’s what happens when we elect people no matter how badly they do their jobs.

            • @kofe@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              36 months ago

              I’m not voting for this scum, but yeah, we’ll see. Hoping it’ll make it to the ballot so the people can actually vote to amend the state constitution like others have. The people may be dumb at electing Representatives, but get a straight forward measure up for vote and the people seem to follow through in correcting it.

        • @Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          46 months ago

          They’re 100% effective, the only reason there said to be 99% effective is to prevent lawsuits from people using then incorrectly.

          • @Prandom_returns@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            16 months ago

            I’m a human, I can make mistakes in the heat of the moment. I’ve had friend couples I know get pregnant even though they’re “professional condom putters onners”.

            • @Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              46 months ago

              It’s not the condom’s fault if you make a mistake. Condom material doesn’t let sperm through, it’s that simple, it’s been used incorrectly if it did. Companies don’t want to lose time and money with lawsuits hence 99%.

              Also, anecdotal evidence while you weren’t in bed with them isn’t much of a proof, it’s as valid as me telling you I’ve never got any girl pregnant even when we weren’t using any protection therefore pulling out is 100% effective.

    • WIZARD POPE💫
      link
      fedilink
      English
      156 months ago

      What do you mean by always? The birth control makes sense because it’s much harder to do it for men because sperm is constantly being produced and women only release 1 egg per month. What other ways do women have to mess up their bodies?

      • Norgur
        link
        fedilink
        776 months ago

        Oh, wow, do you come off as uninformed! Birth control for women has tons and tons of side effects, and it’s in no way easier to prevent successful ovulation than it is to prevent fertile sperm production. In fact, birth control drugs for men have been repeatedly blocked by regulators for having too many side effects, while those side effects pretty closely mirror those of the pill for women. So, interfering with everything from blood pressure to appetite is acceptable when women are affected, but can’t be burdened upon men?

        Interrupting the ovulation cycle comes at great cost for the body. All the “non-hormonal” ways of birth control we have (except the condom) require either poisonous metals and foreign objects to be pushed inside the uterus, increasing the risk for cysts, causing pain, and regular checkups and painful procedures to be applied or fitted (diaphragm). Or toxins to be applied straight into a woman’s private parts (spermicides). Calendar-based methods and “pulling out” have large margins of error, as have condoms.

        • @Pulptastic@midwest.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          12
          edit-2
          6 months ago

          Do the copper IEDs have negative side effects? I thought the objection to those was purely moral.

          Edit: I meant IUD lol

          • @Fermion@mander.xyz
            link
            fedilink
            English
            33
            edit-2
            6 months ago

            My wife got repeated infections and had a lot of pain from the copper iud.

            If you go looking for testimonials you’ll find numerous people who had bad experiences with it.

            Also, they really should offer anesthetic or at least a powerful painkiller for the insertion and removal procedures. Doctors act like it’s no big deal, but it’s very painful.

            • @EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              link
              fedilink
              English
              56 months ago

              Yet another case of the medical industry not caring one iota about women and women’s ability to identify what is going on with their own bodies. The number of times I’ve heard of doctors dismissing women’s pain and issues makes me want to scream.

          • Norgur
            link
            fedilink
            196 months ago

            Yep.

            Firstly: Disregarding the discomfort of having to see the doctor and having something shoved inside your body is a weird mistake, especially men tend to make regularly when talking about those things. Having your genitals exposed to and then painfully tampered with by what is ultimately a stranger isn’t a thing most people would describe as a pleasant afternoon activity.

            The side effects aren’t just from hormones. Imagine having to do a prostate exam every 6 months and a metal plug shoved close to your prostate through your urethra every few years (not the same, of course, just an attempt at an analogy, since men are one hole short down there). Wouldn’t you dislike that? Many women are really sensitive around their cervix and implanting the IUD can therefore be really painful.

            Secondly: Period cramps increase in severity, bleeding increases for most people, and there are hints that those IUDs can increase the risk for cysts, which in turn cause issues, pain and sometimes need surgical removal.

            • SaltySalamander
              link
              fedilink
              5
              edit-2
              6 months ago

              Period cramps increase in severity, bleeding increases for most people

              The two women I dated that had an implanted IUD legit didn’t have a period anymore. So not only was the bleeding and cramps not worse, they simply didn’t exist.

              You honestly seem to just trying to be pushing some agenda, possibly because you had a bad experience and you’re assuming that’s just the way it is for everyone, when the reality is it’s pretty rare.

              • Norgur
                link
                fedilink
                12
                edit-2
                6 months ago
                1. why is your experience the norm and what I say “pretty rare” not the other way around? Or do you consider “two women I know” a representative group? Are “two women I knew” more significant than what professionals will tell you?

                Paragard side effects can include:

                spotting between periods
                
                irregular periods
                
                heavier or longer periods
                
                more or worse cramping during your periods
                
                pain when your IUD is put in, and cramping or back aches for a few days after 
                

                https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/iud/iud-side-effects

                1. Was that a copper IUD (which was what I wrote about) or a hormonal IUD?
              • @candybrie@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                26 months ago

                Periods going away or getting lighter is a side affect of hormonal IUDs. Copper IUDs have no mechanism to make them go away, and seem to pretty commonly make cramps and bleeding worse. .

          • @Excrubulent@slrpnk.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            10
            edit-2
            6 months ago

            IEDs have very negative effects, but you wouldn’t really call them side-effects.

            And IUDs involve surgery which has its own risks including perforating the uterus, plus they can become infected and cause sepsis which is deadly, plus in general infections suck. Some women suffer immense pain which may or may not be ignored by their doctors. They also do release hormones which have fewer side effects because they’re more local, but they’re not side effect free.

            Many of these issues were much worse in the earlier days, where many women died or suffered serious illness and permanent infertility whilst doctors didn’t take them seriously because women are often ignored by doctors where men would not be. So the level of safety the devices now have was bought with a lot of women’s unnecessary suffering.

            https://www.verywellhealth.com/iud-risks-and-complications-906766

        • WIZARD POPE💫
          link
          fedilink
          English
          96 months ago

          I know it has many side effects. My girfriend suffered many of them when she was taking the pill and I had to beg her to stop because it just was not worth it.

          And fuck off of course it’s easier to stop ovulation than sperm production. It’s a numbers game. Also not like I fucking made hormonal birth control. What we have now is bad and you can go ahead and find a better alternative with less side effects. That does not mean the new birth control should also have side effects. Take issue with the people that approved the current ones.

          • Norgur
            link
            fedilink
            106 months ago

            A “numbers game”? Do you think there are little men in your balls, strangulating every sperm cell when it’s formed? Or… do you think the pill works by somehow interfering with the ovum itself?

            Because it doesn’t. Quite the opposite. Just as male contraception methods don’t try to kill sperm, but to shut down the factory. Besides: You cannot measure the difficulty or complexity of medical procedures by how many cells are affected. By that logic, brain surgery would be way easier to do than amputating a leg.

            • WIZARD POPE💫
              link
              fedilink
              English
              66 months ago

              What I meant is that it’s easier to ensure it works being a numbers game. If you constantly have new sperm being made it’s way harder to shut that down consistently than to stop one egg releasing once per month.

            • Norgur
              link
              fedilink
              5
              edit-2
              6 months ago

              Woah there, you shouldn’t berate someone, belittling them for being “too young” and then act like a child in the supermarket when they didn’t get the Matchbox Car they wanted. Jeez!

              • the post of tom joad
                link
                fedilink
                English
                16 months ago

                Haha you’re right, usually i avoid the youth angle. But his comments smelled so youthful the words came out on their own. only the young get mad at the insult so i think in moderation it’s a good tool

        • @Quetzalcutlass@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          46 months ago

          Honestly, as glad as this article makes me, I’d still like to see a perfect birth control for women. Periods seem like they must be the worst part of being a woman (biologically, not socially). Having a temporary, reversible way to stop ovulation without fucking up a dozen related systems and causing physical and mental anguish would be nice.

          • @YarHarSuperstar@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            8
            edit-2
            6 months ago

            Condoms don’t work for everyone’s body.

            Edit: to be clear I’m saying it’s not that simple. There should be more options for anyone with a penis to be able to handle this important implication of having sex. For anyone in general, more options are always good.

        • @dacreator@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          186 months ago

          Calling someone dumb isn’t a good way to start a discussion. When men wear condoms how can you claim the onus is on women? My wife didn’t want to take hormones so I wore condoms, every couple has that option.

      • Victor
        link
        fedilink
        English
        76 months ago

        Forgetting about pregnancy and childbirth perhaps? I take it that they meant those things fuck up women’s bodies pretty severely sometimes. It’s a tough struggle to recover from pregnancy and childbirth, and some never do.

        But apart from that, birth control should be an equal burden, IMO.

    • @umbrella@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      126 months ago

      we can finally share the load and mess up everyone because of not affording babies!

      • Norgur
        link
        fedilink
        226 months ago

        yeah, not wanting 10 children is a matter of cost, of course. It’s baffling to me how unreflected and naive opinions regarding reproduction still are…

          • Norgur
            link
            fedilink
            96 months ago

            I’ve got one, but I wouldn’t want another one every year, and I certainly would not want to stop having fun times with the wife either…

        • @umbrella@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          2
          edit-2
          6 months ago

          i was half joking but i use contraceptives because i cant afford one.

          i’m not even thinking about 10 and never will.

    • @AEsheron@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      6
      edit-2
      6 months ago

      The hippocratic oath, in this case. Medicine is all about risk management, the worse the “disease,” the more tolerant we are of side effects for the cure. Pregnancy and birth are still pretty traumatic events that, while much safer than they used to be, are still dangerous. Female BC just has to be less risky than that. Male BC on the other hand, has to be as low the risk for a man impregnating a woman, which is to say, almost zero. Pretty much any negative side effect is worse than that, so it’s very difficult to pass. I would gladly take one with comparable side effects to female BC, but sometimes unflinching ethics are inconvenient. Better than the alternative, but still.

      • @howrar@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        36 months ago

        Somehow, we manage to accept organ transplants despite it hurting one healthy person a little to help an unhealthy person a lot. What’s stopping us from treating birth control the same way?

      • Norgur
        link
        fedilink
        2
        edit-2
        6 months ago

        The Hippocratic oath is not a thing in most countries and not applicable anyway. If it was, kidney transplants would be done without a doctor present (in the US that is, don’t overestimate your little made up oath ritual internationally)

      • @Pips@lemmy.sdf.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        2
        edit-2
        6 months ago

        It’s medical ethics, not the Hippocratic Oath. Most doctors swear to an ethical standard. Besides, “first, do no harm” is a bit unhelpful if you’re a surgeon.

        Otherwise you’re right, the risks of pregnancy outweigh the side effects of birth control, which is why birth control for women doesn’t have as high a standard for mitigating other consequences.