It just doesn’t work. It’s a simple as that. Things are constantly breaking. When they do I look up support articles that are written in fucking Klingon and sent to the terminal to type in commands that always return some sort of generic error “command not found” or some shit because the solution is written for a different one of the 862700422 available distros.
I have no idea how to install all the different program types (flathub, db, appimage, etc.). Windows has exe. I click “install” and boom, it’s done.
Sometimes I try to remove software in the package manager and it acts like it is uninstalled but it’s still fucking there.
I can’t even select a file because there are no previews. Just a gazillion blue squares.
And other reasons, but I digress. I don’t have time to learn a new career, I just want a computer that works.
I have no idea how to install all the different program types (flathub, db, appimage, etc.). Windows has exe. I click “install” and boom, it’s done.
That’s strange, I’ve always felt that installing stuff is a lot easier on Ubuntu than windows. It’s just apt install <program> and apt remove <program>. Having to manually download and run an exe feels outdated in comparison.
I can’t even select a file because there are no previews. Just a gazillion blue squares with names like “dlcosn_3947912947”.
Curious what distro you installed that had that issue. The only preview issue I’ve encountered was on win10 where I had to pay for windows to support H.265 to give me previews of H.265 files.
Things are constantly breaking. When they do I look up support articles that are written in fucking Klingon and sent to the terminal to type in commands that always return some sort of generic error “command not found” or some shit because the solution is written for a different one of the 862700422 available distros.
That’s a fair point though. If you aren’t willing (and most aren’t) to learn enough to be comfortable with the terminal, it can be very easy break something when you are forced to interact with the terminal.
I’ve always felt that installing stuff is a lot easier on Ubuntu than windows. It’s just apt install <program> and apt remove <program>.
😂 Except that you have to know exactly what <program> is, character for character, and usually includes some long string of numbers and letters where 1 character is wrong and you have to retype the whole damn thing. This is the opposite of easy.
Curious what distro you installed that had that issue.
Fedora/Gnome
If you aren’t willing (and most aren’t) to learn enough to be comfortable with the terminal, it can be very easy break something when you are forced to interact with the terminal.
Yes and the problem is you’re ALWAYS sent into the terminal for absolutely any kind of debugging.
assuming what you want is even on apt. if its not, then you gotta add the repository… and some stuff doesnt even offer that. So you gotta find and download the .deb file. or even compile it from source yourself.
Except that you have to know exactly what <program> is, character for character, and usually includes some long string of numbers and letters where 1 character is wrong and you have to retype the whole damn thing. This is the opposite of easy.
If it a program you are unfamiliar with, yes you’ll probably need to search for the apt name and copy paste. I much prefer that over searching a website, verifying it’s not a scam site, then download the exe, and then run the exe once the download is finished. After the first time, just add it to a .sh script and then you can download every program you need automatically if you ever need to set up a new instance again.
I guess it’s not for all, but worst case it’s hardly any more work than needing to go to a website to download the exe.
Apt does not have most packages you need anymore. You have to add custom repositories for everything. Which means you have to go to a website and still run a whole bunch of commands. Worst of both worlds. Other distros are not as bad, but between snap, flathub, etc. Linux package management is not in a good state at the moment.
Agreed. Try using apt install program name, not found. Search Google “how to download program name on Linux”. Get told you first have to add these 3 different repos or whatever in the terminal, then type in this command to download it. Why do I need to Google HOW to download a program? Nothing is ever simple with Linux. It’s absolute bollocks in that regard.
Install chocolatey in windows and get the best of both worlds…now for 90% of programs I can type “choco install foo” and it finds the exe for me and silently installs it in the background so I don’t even have to click anything
I used Linux Mint for several years on a dual-boot laptop. I rarely found myself booting Windows. While there was a learning curve, Mint was fairly accessible out of the box and was generally a delight to use. Until it wasn’t. At some point, the drivers for my video card updated, and just flat broke everything. And I can’t really use a computer on which I can’t see the desktop. I waited. And waited. A fix for the driver may have eventually come, but after awhile, booting into Windows just became my default, until eventually I just wiped the Linux partition to recover the storage space.
It was fun while it lasted, and I may choose one day to give it another go for the fourth time. This wasn’t the first time I’ve had something like this happen. First time was with Fedora, and the second was Ubuntu. Each time, I had the same “it worked until it didn’t” experience, and each time it stopped working was usually some kind of broken driver making my hardware incompatible.
you don’t have to use all of the app containers things, pacman, apt or whatever your distro uses is often enough.
if you don’t have previews at all, your system is completely broken and fucked up
if you get a command not found, well you just need install the missing tool…
Your points are all entirely fair. It also surprises me how quite a few people don’t get it.
And it’s not that many requisites to fix it either.
A) don’t break shit on updates. This is the worst thing that could happen.
B) There needs to be a clicky app store. Just one. No options. No pick your repos. No pick between flatpak and whatever else. Just a visual app store you click an app and it install. You click to remove it gets removed.
It’s seriously not that much you’d think.
Having that said. If you do choose to endure through the learning curve. It’s mostly worth it. But fuck. It’s such a dumb self imposed learning curve.
The biggest strength of linux, is also its greatest flaw and weakness.
Is that if people disagree with what a projects doing, they can split off, make their own version of the project, and now that has to compete with the other project, as well as the 5 others that are out there.
So things just keep diluting, and spreading out, when it should be going in the opposite direction for a good user experience.
well gnome software and epiphany app stores just work.
click, install, done.
they provide an option to pick the source to install from (package/flatpak/snap), but they both automatically pick the best one for you.
Debian/Ubuntu almost never break on updates (unless you mess with the PPAs too much), but at a significant cost: some packages and software (especially desktop environments and system packages) being 1-2 years out of date.
you mentioned that file previews are broken for you, thy should just work, unless some component it terribly broken or missing…
also about the last part, package name usually matchess the name of the command, so for example if an online guide tells you to use the ffmpeg command and it’s not found on your system, usually that means that you have to install a package called ffmpeg.
some package managers and command line shells provide more helpful error messages, like:
command X was not found, but here are some packages that provide this command, do you want to install one of them?
by the way, you mentioned that you tried using Fedora. common source of frustration is beginners trying to use apt on a system that doesn’t support or use it (apt is only used in Debian, Ubuntu, and their derivatives). Fedora uses dnf instead.
…but, as a beginner, you shouldn’t even worry about this, as most distros provide easy-to-use, graphical app store applications that can automagically install apps (from your package manager, Flatpak, Snap, etc, picking the source automatically if it’s unavailable in one of them) with a single click.
you mentioned that file previews are broken for you, thy should just work, unless some component it terribly broken or missing…
Uhhhhh nope, that’s just the way it works.
…but, as a beginner, you shouldn’t even worry about this, as most distros provide easy-to-use, graphical app store applications that can automagically install apps
Yes I have the “Software” package manager. At best it is extremely slow, at worst it just doesn’t work at all. But it doesn’t come preloaded with many repositories, I had to manually load flatpak.
It just doesn’t work. It’s a simple as that. Things are constantly breaking. When they do I look up support articles that are written in fucking Klingon and sent to the terminal to type in commands that always return some sort of generic error “command not found” or some shit because the solution is written for a different one of the 862700422 available distros.
I have no idea how to install all the different program types (flathub, db, appimage, etc.). Windows has exe. I click “install” and boom, it’s done.
Sometimes I try to remove software in the package manager and it acts like it is uninstalled but it’s still fucking there.
I can’t even select a file because there are no previews. Just a gazillion blue squares.
And other reasons, but I digress. I don’t have time to learn a new career, I just want a computer that works.
That’s strange, I’ve always felt that installing stuff is a lot easier on Ubuntu than windows. It’s just
apt install <program>andapt remove <program>. Having to manually download and run an exe feels outdated in comparison.Curious what distro you installed that had that issue. The only preview issue I’ve encountered was on win10 where I had to pay for windows to support H.265 to give me previews of H.265 files.
That’s a fair point though. If you aren’t willing (and most aren’t) to learn enough to be comfortable with the terminal, it can be very easy break something when you are forced to interact with the terminal.
😂 Except that you have to know exactly what <program> is, character for character, and usually includes some long string of numbers and letters where 1 character is wrong and you have to retype the whole damn thing. This is the opposite of easy.
Fedora/Gnome
Yes and the problem is you’re ALWAYS sent into the terminal for absolutely any kind of debugging.
Been using linux for 6ish years.
Aint nothin @HughJanus said thats wrong.
assuming what you want is even on apt. if its not, then you gotta add the repository… and some stuff doesnt even offer that. So you gotta find and download the .deb file. or even compile it from source yourself.
Everything has [Tab] completion these days.
What is that!?
Wikipedia explains it better than I would
And double tab for a list of you really don’t want to search.
Why don’t you use the Software App for installing Apps?
Because the apps I need are not in the Software App
If it a program you are unfamiliar with, yes you’ll probably need to search for the apt name and copy paste. I much prefer that over searching a website, verifying it’s not a scam site, then download the exe, and then run the exe once the download is finished. After the first time, just add it to a .sh script and then you can download every program you need automatically if you ever need to set up a new instance again.
I guess it’s not for all, but worst case it’s hardly any more work than needing to go to a website to download the exe.
Apt does not have most packages you need anymore. You have to add custom repositories for everything. Which means you have to go to a website and still run a whole bunch of commands. Worst of both worlds. Other distros are not as bad, but between snap, flathub, etc. Linux package management is not in a good state at the moment.
Agreed. Try using apt install program name, not found. Search Google “how to download program name on Linux”. Get told you first have to add these 3 different repos or whatever in the terminal, then type in this command to download it. Why do I need to Google HOW to download a program? Nothing is ever simple with Linux. It’s absolute bollocks in that regard.
The sad part is that it used to be simple. You could do apt install whatever and it would usually get it.
They also used to have a graphical frontend for apt, which felt like an app store before app stores (and even the iPhone itself) existed.
I suspect it’ll get simple again. If canonical doesn’t do it, some other distro will overtake it.
There will never be a world where average users prefer typing arcane command line shit over clicking on a button in a GUI.
Install chocolatey in windows and get the best of both worlds…now for 90% of programs I can type “choco install foo” and it finds the exe for me and silently installs it in the background so I don’t even have to click anything
I used Linux Mint for several years on a dual-boot laptop. I rarely found myself booting Windows. While there was a learning curve, Mint was fairly accessible out of the box and was generally a delight to use. Until it wasn’t. At some point, the drivers for my video card updated, and just flat broke everything. And I can’t really use a computer on which I can’t see the desktop. I waited. And waited. A fix for the driver may have eventually come, but after awhile, booting into Windows just became my default, until eventually I just wiped the Linux partition to recover the storage space.
It was fun while it lasted, and I may choose one day to give it another go for the fourth time. This wasn’t the first time I’ve had something like this happen. First time was with Fedora, and the second was Ubuntu. Each time, I had the same “it worked until it didn’t” experience, and each time it stopped working was usually some kind of broken driver making my hardware incompatible.
you don’t have to use all of the app containers things, pacman, apt or whatever your distro uses is often enough.
if you don’t have previews at all, your system is completely broken and fucked up if you get a command not found, well you just need install the missing tool…
I don’t even know what these words mean.
What are “previews”?
…what tool!?
I’m constantly genuinely surprised at how Linux users are unable to grasp why people don’t want to use it.
Your points are all entirely fair. It also surprises me how quite a few people don’t get it.
And it’s not that many requisites to fix it either.
A) don’t break shit on updates. This is the worst thing that could happen.
B) There needs to be a clicky app store. Just one. No options. No pick your repos. No pick between flatpak and whatever else. Just a visual app store you click an app and it install. You click to remove it gets removed.
It’s seriously not that much you’d think.
Having that said. If you do choose to endure through the learning curve. It’s mostly worth it. But fuck. It’s such a dumb self imposed learning curve.
I agree so hard with both of the needs listed here.
The biggest strength of linux, is also its greatest flaw and weakness.
Is that if people disagree with what a projects doing, they can split off, make their own version of the project, and now that has to compete with the other project, as well as the 5 others that are out there.
So things just keep diluting, and spreading out, when it should be going in the opposite direction for a good user experience.
well gnome software and epiphany app stores just work.
click, install, done.
they provide an option to pick the source to install from (package/flatpak/snap), but they both automatically pick the best one for you.
Debian/Ubuntu almost never break on updates (unless you mess with the PPAs too much), but at a significant cost: some packages and software (especially desktop environments and system packages) being 1-2 years out of date.
Man I wish I had time to boot up a vm with a big distro, open both stores and try to install something, it’s immediately obvious.
There’s a reason everyone online says “oh yeah, the stores exist, i still use the terminal though”
They do not work.
As a power user, I just like the terminal more, it’s much quicker to install stuff from the terminal.
you mentioned that file previews are broken for you, thy should just work, unless some component it terribly broken or missing…
also about the last part, package name usually matchess the name of the command, so for example if an online guide tells you to use the ffmpeg command and it’s not found on your system, usually that means that you have to install a package called ffmpeg.
some package managers and command line shells provide more helpful error messages, like: command X was not found, but here are some packages that provide this command, do you want to install one of them?
by the way, you mentioned that you tried using Fedora. common source of frustration is beginners trying to use
apton a system that doesn’t support or use it (apt is only used in Debian, Ubuntu, and their derivatives). Fedora usesdnfinstead.…but, as a beginner, you shouldn’t even worry about this, as most distros provide easy-to-use, graphical app store applications that can automagically install apps (from your package manager, Flatpak, Snap, etc, picking the source automatically if it’s unavailable in one of them) with a single click.
Uhhhhh nope, that’s just the way it works.
Yes I have the “Software” package manager. At best it is extremely slow, at worst it just doesn’t work at all. But it doesn’t come preloaded with many repositories, I had to manually load flatpak.